Author Topic: 2021 Farm Log  (Read 4332 times)

sKePTiKal

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #240 on: June 10, 2021, 09:09:17 AM »
Yeah; the anxiety is about feeling selfish for just not feeling up to the technicolor & surround sound sharing of her thoughts, ideas, & experiences in any given moment. As if she NEEDS me to do this or she'll explode. LOLOLOL.

I keep introducing the idea that we can just hang out & chill without her sucking all the air out of a room. When she's in that place, it reminds me of my mom's monologues and the safest thing for me to do is agree, nod & keep my mouth shut. But that lack of expressing my own thoughts & feelings makes her feel crazy. LOLOLOLOLOL.

I think I'll start bringing up that our conversations almost always zero in on the same topics/themes too. That time apart doing separate things, means we have new different stuff to bring to the table & talk about.

:thumbs up:


Wait just a minute... that "same topic" might just be the thing that's really bugging her; hmmmmmmmm. That needs pondering before any action is taken.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2021, 09:11:45 AM by sKePTiKal »
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Hopalong

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #241 on: June 10, 2021, 09:29:54 AM »
((((Amber))))
I spent half my life short of oxygen when either Nmom or D were holding forth...it was very anxiety provoking and draining for me.

I wonder whether the old-school I-statement could help during these arias?

"I feel _____ or _____ or _____....when you [pressure me to talk, probe into my inner workings, analyse me without asking for my okay, advise me when I haven't asked for advice....]"

What I often felt was (not that this was always their intention--their intention was anxiety relief) invisible, voiceless and even dehumanized during some of the marathon forced-listening sessions. In hindsight, I think I had a highly developed ballet routine in which I was the:
soundboard
scapegoat
target

....for their stuff. And I accepted it (passively or mostly silently) because I was trying to demonstrate love. Sacrificial, devoted, filial or maternal or even religious love. It was my early understanding from my gentle Dad's model that you absorb whatever comes from someone you love, because that level of patience and long-suffering (no pun intended) was how love works. Maybe my Dad was right. He was in a way Christlike. But I'm not able to do that. I'm more selfish than he was and I don't follow the religion he did (and for which I admired him). But I tried.

I did and would absorb a LOT of something another person simply cannot help. Compassion is the highest value, to me. But I abandoned myself. Didn't know I was alternatively allowed to peacefully assert:

I can't listen more now but let's talk tomorrow
I'm going to _____ or _____ or _____, back later
I'm going to take some time now, love you

Whatever it was. I just didn't know how to draw a line without it being a red flag to the N or the out of control. I didn't know how to be seen or heard by those whose cravings for my attention were so overwhelming (various reasons) they couldn't see or hear what their cravings were costing me.

And to do it without resentment or anger or debility. That to me was an unseen goal and a great need. Finally I am closer to that balance that I ever was before. I get practice in the occasional irritations of friendship or church politics. But there's no family left to learn on. Or lean on.

Rambling now, and I don't know if any of those images will ring a chime. Just in case.

Thinking of you, with sympathy.

hugs
Hops

"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

Twoapenny

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #242 on: June 10, 2021, 09:54:59 AM »
I'm not at the adult child stage yet with son but I'm reading all of these posts avidly as it seems to be something that's more difficult to define than in other relationships.  And presumably that's because, for a long time, you do need to meet all of your child's needs in order to be a good parent (and quite possibly went above and beyond to avoid them experiencing any of the stuff that was part of a childhood in which needs weren't met).  And of course you still love them, want what's best for them, are happy to help and I guess even as adults they know they can be more demanding of your time than they might be of a friend or a boyfriend because of the closeness and genuine care that is there.  Difficult path to tread, for sure, and I've nothing at all useful to suggest but I am finding reading all of this stuff about managing your adult relationships with your own kids very helpful to store up for the future xx

lighter

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #243 on: June 10, 2021, 12:51:25 PM »
Hops:

You keep ringing bells for me lately....this time it was about not realizing what it costs us to allow others to hold forth without considering our needs, etc.

Second.... the ability to withdraw without resentment, anger or attitude..... would be AMAZING to have in hand. 

I'm noticing more and more how much choice, or lack of choice, in that regard,which is something you pinged on in another post.

I wanted to start a new thread about it,but you said everything much better than I could have with twice the words.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #244 on: June 10, 2021, 01:34:28 PM »
Thanks, Lighter.
It feels really good to ring a chime for somebody.

hugs
Hops
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lighter

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #245 on: June 10, 2021, 01:51:52 PM »
((Hops)) 

Lots of chimes lately.

Big wonderful clear bells.

Lighter

sKePTiKal

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #246 on: June 10, 2021, 05:06:55 PM »
I am somewhere between letting it all go in one ear & out the other...
and being totally impacted by her (almost reliving in the process) retelling of an experience or observation.

And occasionally, she pushes too far - and then this role of standing up for myself manifests. It's part mom-reflex, part friend not wanting to be pushed around or unfairly criticized, or even just me pointing out that we are different people and therefore have TWO different perspectives that may or may not agree, to a degree. And that's perfectly NORMAL. The reality of all interpersonal interactions & relationships.

Lighter - it almost feels like mental/emotional sparring, if you can relate to that reference. A form of exercise, to understand an "opponent"... and see our own weaknesses. Which is more than I described above; and the sparring thing doesn't happen that much between us. Only when I express an opinion she completely disagrees with -- and believes that my opinion is garnered from some clickbait headline somewhere. She knows I think/research/read way more on my own; where did she learn to do that?? She knows there are always underlying supporting ideas for what I believe - that can be documented, if I spoke with footnote & bibliography markups in my language.

When I can assert myself, explain background, to my statements - more often than not, we find another chunk of common ground between our perspectives. Yes, I have to be mentally "on" - in sparring mode - to achieve that with her. Sometimes people just want to relax & enjoy being with each other. I'm not nearly as verbally acrobatic or quick as she is, either - that's been acknowledged over & over. But I am able to separate a bit of myself observational self off up in a corner of the room... to watch the transaction unfold, and notice how I feel. I'm not sure she is doing anything similar or even knows such a thing is possible.

My actual point of concern, is my feeling of this expectation* (on her part) that I will be available to participate in that willingly. Theoretically, it should be easier to deal with. "Sorry, I'm just in the middle of something. Can this wait till _____?"

*and I get that my perception of the expectation is something I feel; it's MINE to deal with.

The times I've said, well - I have to finish this one thing that I wanted to get done today and I guess that will require x amount of time. Or, I just am really wrapped up in my own space right now and don't have the energy... that's all respected. No assertions, guilt-tripping, or anything about me doing that. It's just in my own frame of reference; and it's definitely THERE; no question.

Perhaps it's an archaic artifact? From the past? having no relevance to the now?
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Hopalong

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #247 on: June 10, 2021, 10:13:45 PM »
I just felt like a hostage, when sparring.

My first husband LOVED it, and used to call me a "worthy opponent" -- as praise.

I hated it. I didn't want to debate my way through marriage, even though we were both so smart and informed and intellectual. I wanted peaceful sharing. Didn't want to be his regular opponent even though it put a gleam in his eyes. An occasional debate was fine; I hold my own. But as a way of life, with the motivation for or peak moments of connection being about criticism, disagreement or debate...it sapped me. Underneath my boldness is a sensitive nature and I'm no warrior, not built for conflict. I don't apologize for it; Ferdinand the Bull was my favorite hero.

Not first-H's fault, nor mine I guess. But for me chronic tension, a recurring need to try to protect myself from someone else's overwhelming need to argue, is one of the worst feelings there is. Especially when it's happening with someone I love. Some thrive on it, some just stress and are sickened. I'm the latter.

Everybody's different and has their different sets of tools, Amber, but where some of our experiences do intersect, I sure can relate. I feel for you.

hugs
Hops
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sKePTiKal

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #248 on: June 11, 2021, 07:29:14 AM »
Hops, occasionally a topic seems important enough to me, to engage in that. And I need to be primed for it; I'm just not all the time. I'm much fonder of fun, relaxation and feeling safe these days. It feels much more intimate & connected to quietly and dispassionately talk about things instead of debating. Its an atmosphere where I can let myself sink deeper and see more about a topic. The debate atmosphere is definitely sparring to me. And that's not relaxing.

Just speculating, but I have witnessed Hol engage in this kind of sparring with her former partner. A LOT. As the relationship deteriorated, she felt like no matter what words she used - she simply wasn't being seen or heard by him. Which triggered some of her old childhood wounds. New partner is very very quiet. Self-contained even. Which is also a frustration for her. Being the only other human available - there are times that I am sure I am a "roleplay" substitute in her mental gymnastics trying to work things out trying to play HIS side of the debate. At times, I can try & model a healthier interaction... but I'm not always in that energy space... and then I get steamrolled... which flips the on switch for all my old crap to start running in the hamster wheel.

She's been working for 3 weeks. And I have to say I'm just now starting to feel much more solid within myself again. Breathe freely again; completely rest. I'm getting a lot of the things that have been on the "Amber wants..." list a long time, done. I haven't asked how it is for Steve. But he's been working at things at the hut, too. At his own pace. Being here as long as she has - without her own internal sense of motivation/accomplishment - isn't challenging enough for her. This kind of job IS a challenge, mentally, physically, emotionally... and it's the first thing she found in her life, that's been able to engage that much of her at once. There is absolutelly nothing going on at the farm, that's that intense. (By design.... and the essential nature of this project is slow & steady instead of everything happening at once).

She's been trying to decide if she'll keep working in film/tv. She SAYS she'd much rather be here - and lists all the negatives about work. But she is advancing in this job and her reputation preceeds her. It's been great to have a break from her filling absolutely every slow empty space - literally & figuratively - for me. So maybe that's a hint...

maybe I just need reserve X amount of time for me, and start reducing the "lets hang out" sessions/frequency even more. When B is here - I'll be splitting my time even further. She NEEDS to have her own life with me being a relatively smaller part of it. I've already done that once or twice, since they moved out. Might be healthier for both of us.

Thoughts.... pondering... noticing cycles and cycle times... and what happens when other people are around too. Keeping all my observations to myself (or here) for the time being. It appears that work is almost finished on the hut garage; think the last thing is to connect solar to garage electricals & hook up the garage door openers. Nothing happening on shop this week; but then B is still waiting on approval for local appts and meets with them next Thurs - MAYBE to learn yea or nay. Meanwhile he's making major progress on his end, with the house & shop stuff sort.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2021, 07:32:16 AM by sKePTiKal »
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lighter

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #249 on: June 11, 2021, 09:53:58 AM »
Lordy,  Amber...... the same phrase kept coming up for me, regarding Hol......
Drop the rope.  Just don't pick it up when she's ready to engage in the tense back and forth "sparring,"  And I get what you mean.  I used to really enjoy it..... went to class twice on sparring days, but I don't enjoy it in relatinship.  Not a bit.

Hops, my first husband wanted me to keep him in line, which I resented and truthfully couldn't do.  He wanted to push against me, make crazy accusations about my not loving him, argue about how much he'd changed in the marriage.... how I'd not changed an inch, like I'd committed a crime.... silly things from his childhood. I honestly think he saw his mother's face when he looked at me.  He never ever saw ME.  That made it easier to drop my rope, give up the need to understand WHY he'd tormented us both and release him without animosity.  I used the word divorce once, filed, paid the attorney, showed up to the hearing alone and continued speaking to him, even as he behaved poorly.  I came to see poor behavior, greed, insecurity as his condition....... not ours.  It was better. 

Some people feel comfortable sparring.  It's not my comfort zone in my safe spaces.  My dd18 sometimes rises up and sticks her chin out..... asserts a challenge...... maybe about politics, maybe a semi criticism of me, my beliefs, my understanding/lack of understanding about something she feels is important....... and sometimes I rise to it. I KNOW I feel the pull, the reactivity, then usually decide I don't want to make a habit of this with her.  I don't want to go toe to toe, debate or spar..... discussion is OK.  Not her coming at me and we are together
a
lot
lately. 

We're sizing up each other's quirky habits.  She often points mine out. I make an effort to stop whatever it is.... singing the same line from a song, for instance, then point out she's doing that very same thing... gently I point it out.  I notice she stops pointing out my irritating habits so much.  Calm is restored till next time.

We're learning how to relate adult to adult.  Sometimes she rises up and is more adult than I am..... depends on what's going on.  There are things that sweep me up and utterly render me a child...... paperwork, for instance at times.  She may not understand what's going on, but she can see the chaos escalate a bit.  And I'm more comfortable in chaos than she is.  I've grown accustomed to it.  Have had to operate in it for a long time without choice, so.... now that I have choice..... now that DD18 is pointing it out and asking for less of it...... I'm trying to cultivate more serenity, less chaos.

The thing about it is..... we can speak our peace most of the time without flare ups.  Sometimes she's just set on sparring... won't have it any other way.  I tilt my head, get some emotional distance and touch base with her. How is she doing?  Usually she responds she's sinking in depression and switches away from targeting me...... she talks about what's going on in her life, which is better, but still...... it's all consuming for me if I don't sustain the distance.  I feel like I'm spinning plates at times.... she's one of my most cherished plates. I remind myself all the time...... THIS plate has to keep spinning. The renovation and house and cottage can all keep as long as THIS plate, and DD20 and the Pug continue to spin....... and it helps.  Or so I think.

I haven't internalized the belief....
I'll be OK, even if my kids aren't OK.

I can think about it, want to believe it's true, sometimes FEEL it's the truth, but I haven't tackled the underlying belief system behind it..... not entirely.  Not yet.

Being OK, when the girls aren't OK,  means I'm more responsive and helpful in appropriate ways.  It means I can identify what's appropriate more easily.  Less confusion. More knowing.  Zero angst.  More compassion.  Less holding my breath.  My posture remains relaxed. 

Once I'm in distress, there's no getting myself out of it easily.  I know that doesn't do anything to calm the girls, so I'm working on catching my posture and breathing before I fall off the edge.  Learning to SEE without the frustration and fear of failure...... saying the wrong word....... working on not letting DD18 pull me into her distress.

I've worked on this in many ways.... it always looks different to me.  I'm always surprised I'm still working on it.... haven't solved it yet. Keep going round and round with it when I've clearly identified it and learned strategies to figure it out.

I don't want to be hypervigilant....I relax.  It's in the moments I'm busy...... not expecting the curve ball... that it typically lands. I haven't sussed out how to find the balance.  See the flags and step around them without my heart rate increasing a bit...... that shot of chemicals starts the ball rolling and I understand it.

I know this..... I don't want sparring in my home.  With anyone.

Darn codependence.

Lighter




sKePTiKal

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #250 on: June 11, 2021, 02:29:09 PM »
Lighter - that's it, exactly. I might use different words to describe it, but that's OK. The sense of what you're describing is what I go through. More often than sparring on a specific topic, Hol takes the floor and talks off the cuff about everything rattling through her head. Some is TMI; not my place to comment on - and she is willing to accept that. I might step in with a gentle suggestion when she starts blaming herself, kicking herself for not be ______ enough, in other situations than our interactions. I remind her it's ok to acknowledge her own needs... not try to be whatever all day, in superhero fashion for other people. They have to own and deal with their own stuff. Not her job. Any more than it's MY job, to do the same with her.

That spiel of hers can cover an infinite number of topics, rambling through the universe. LOL.

And MOST of the time, I have the energy & space to let her go on & on. It can be entertaining or instructional to just listen. Most of the time, I can stay comfortably inside my own personal space bubble too. And the challenges/sparring stuff is happening less than it did when she first moved in. I don't have a lot of distress about needing her to be OK, to be OK myself. I know a lot about her process of thinking & changing already. After 40 years, one would hope so, right? And I know that I don't necessarily have the right answers for her - even having gone through a lot of my own process. I know she does rather well, doing this on her own.

Just informed that she'll be driving back after wrap tomorrow morning (all night shift). Sleep wil be the main thing on her agenda till Monday, most likely. She might want a quick debrief... but it won't be one of her marathon sessions.

It does pain me, that she's still in the midst of struggling with her own stuff so much. I can only help as much as she'll LET me. But I've also been quick to point out how rapidly & competently she has moved through several big things in recent years. None of us ever get it all perfect, once & for all, forevermore, I don't think. It's OK that there are differences in what we deal with and how we deal with it. At least for me it is. I get the sense from time to time, she'd like to craft me according to her preferences for herself.

And I just back away slowly, never taking my eyes off her during those times. LOLOLOL. We can be so very dangerous to each other at the drop of a hat, over really stupid stuff. We try very hard NOT to be. Humor is still what we both use to de-escalate situations like that. May be twisted, dark humor - but it's still effective.

Guess I needed to spew all this out, as her re-entry is imminent. Get my head & feelings all straight again about it. Think about proposing more separate activities and less just "hanging out" because we don't want to do anything for some time, activity. A lot of the time, those conversations are positive & productive too. So overall - this isn't a major alert issue for me. Just trying to solve another chunk of the puzzle... of why she just can't be on her own, relaxing, and be content with that -- more than she is. She doesn't have any solid answers either.
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sKePTiKal

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #251 on: June 13, 2021, 08:10:15 AM »
And in other news... LOL... friend Deb is needing a lot of support and safe space. She's had another meeting with the lawyer, who read thru mom's will again, more closely. As the executor, her sister is able to do pretty much as she pleases - whether it makes life difficult for Deb & her brother or not. The main concern is that sis will assume everything in the house is mom's - and remove it for donation/yard sale.

So packing & stacking lots of stuff in storage units has been going on.

Rents are higher than mortgages around here; and in the normal working & middle class price range there is almost nothing to buy. And Deb's had a hard time getting landlords/mgmt offices to call her back. The idea of moving out of mom's house is way more attractive than being triggered by what the sibs are up to. She would be able to come from work and just relax. The current situation is high drama, every day. Plus the underlying grief.

Deb seems to be accepting the circumstances as best as anyone could. But it really doesn't feel good. There is talk of moving out of state and transferring to another job elsewhere - if possible. There's a bit of decision fatigue setting in, too. And the future is well, just too big from where she's currently at. I think she's going to be able to rest some today; maybe cook so there are quick meals next week.

-----------------------

Hol's crew got asked to work an extra day, and if she came home anyway, that would leave only one person doing the actual work on set so she stayed. She's been asked to day-play, as needed on the series (starts August) and she'll consider that. It's not a lot of time away commitment. We chatted a little yesterday, when she had rested. She sounds pretty good. Guess she got home about the time I woke up to let the kitties in. They finished early last night.

-----------------------

Buck is still in limbo with the medical stuff. So he's trying to get as much done as he can in the meantime, to get moved in finally.

----------------------

And I'm OK. Just resting, self-care... not even picking at old scabs much.  :D  Silly B makes me giggle & grin. Kitties are being good company; Stinker is really loving being outside - except when it rains. He doesn't like being wet. Freddy is used to it. There was a lot of being the main switchboard - or HQ - checkin for everyone this week and few other things come up too, so I've been resting this weekend. Watching a western series. Off & on. Still cruising youtube for either interesting learning vids, or entertainment; and not finding a lot. Stuff seems so shallow and repetitive.

Heard the Oxford University Press is ceasing operations after centuries of continuous work. That really is a shame, to me. I guess books are becoming a thing of the past too.  :(  I suppose I'll start perusing the used bookstores again. I'm still thinking about building a library.
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Hopalong

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #252 on: June 13, 2021, 10:33:57 AM »
Lighter,
I used to swoon with sympathy when I heard the old saying:
"A mother can only be as happy as her least-happy child."

I now believe that's a typical blame-the-mother curse and another tool for making women responsible for all the emotional work in the universe: even when there are situations and conditions that are truly beyond their control.

It makes mothers martyrs, with culture slamming down on their rebellious heads if they get to a place where it feels wrong to drown themselves trying to save a child who doesn't want to learn to swim. I think maternal martyrdom IS the wrong message to give women. Sacrificial, in an emergency moment trade your life for theirs, absolutely. I would do the same, and hand over any organs they could carve out of me to save her.

But it's not right to actively allow one's own health and sanity to deteriorate in a losing battle to redirect a self-destructive child. I believe chances are better by modeling something different.

For me, that chance is past, but it's what I'd recommend to other mothers who are drowning in guilt and helplessness. Release the guilt, and recognize that against some things, we ARE helpless. It's wise to accept reality, hard as that is. Mothers aren't and shouldn't have to be superhuman. It's a destructive delusion.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #253 on: June 13, 2021, 01:21:51 PM »
Thanks for that, Hops.

I feel like I'm at a place where I need to focus on what's mine and do what I can about those things, particularly.  As priority. 

Learning to release resposibility, or perceived responsibility for grown children..... release them from codependence and associated habits...... release myself.  I agree with women being blamed unjustly with regard to child rearing.  It's a tough job description.  Not much good training available, lots of opinions out there. 

What you said about modeling something different..... ABSOLUTELY!  Modeling healthy boundaries, how to set them, enforce them without anxiety and drama/trauma.... I'll teach as I learn and practice.

Everyone is healthier when I find and set healthy boundaries..... and I wasn't raised with them.  I didn't know what they were. I wasn't allowed to have them IF I ever tried..... I was steamrolled in a family of people who knew what they wanted and didn't think a lot about other people's needs.  I fell in line worrying about their needs. They didn't know how to teach an empath to care for herself, if it ever occurred to them. 

Oh....and my father, who was spoiled silly by both his parents, was a mysoginist with ideas about women being selfish, shallow, greedy crybabies who used tears to manipulate men.  I think he was fearful of women and rejection and being abandoned, which he actually engineered in his marriage to my mother, and with his gf of 18 years..... who he stole from his best friend while explaining to his children....."Integrity is everything... all that matters."  Ummmm, Dad... what the hell?  You had an affair with best friend's wife for years, while they lived 2 doors down, TOOK HIM INTO our home when your gf (his wife) filed to divorce him.  Holy cow, Dad. How does one shove INTEGRITY down his daughter's throats while doing THAT to his best friend, who eventually found out you were stooping his wife and engaged to her.  I've often wondered what went through Dad's head when he and GF went to visit her ex h in the hospital, on his death bed, dying from cancer...... what did Dad think about.... sitting there... facing the friend he'd betrayed in the all the says he SAID women betrayed HIM and all men?  Really.... I'm just gobsmacked at the hypocrisy..... such nerve.  To raise us feeling responsible for BEING that in the world...... when it was HIM BEING THAT in all of our worlds.

I've never cheated. I've told the truth, even when it didn't serve me well.  I'm nothing nothing like what his view of women was.  What he talked about ALL THE TIME. 

I can tell you..... it rubbed off on me and my sister.  We're unintentionally more masculine in our speach and ways of moving through the world, bc father's views on women washed into our subconscious.  We were shamed badly for showing emotions, God forbid you cry.

 At the same time, and oddly,  wer'e also more prone to baby talking our children and perhaps SOs....... like we...... turn it on and off, maybe?  I know balance would be a good thing. 

Maybe we did a strange baby talk with my father... this sounds SO ICKY, but maybe the sing songy things was a belly up, surrender, lets not be enemies bc we're women and you're the big strong he man who KNOWS we deserve to be treated less than.....
Fawning.... rather than fight or flight, and I would have chosen flight every time. There were times I could barely stand to be near my father..... my sister would have to talk me into getting into the car with him.  Dependence dictated I had to be in his space.

At the same time.... I remember missing family vacations to Florida with my father...... and I asked dad why we weren't going anymore. He said it was too much work.  Never mind he, IMO, failed to teach us how to help, set expectations and guide us in learning.  I could have been taught. My sister could have been taught. My brother could have been taught.  My brother said he wasn't taught by my dad, btw.He said he learned everything he knows on his own, which is SO SO SAD. 

I think my Dad felt shame about NOT teaching us. I mean... what happens when "God", my dad's nickname in his family, fails at marriage, fails to honor his best friend, fails to give his children an in tact family?  Did he just give up?  Because it wasn't "perfect?"  Maybe.

I know he spent MORE time feeling angry at women, and talking about it.  His family treated my sister and me differently. I think my Grandfather was more touchy feely, if you get my meaning.  Sister and I kept our coats on when time to greet the Grandparents. They considered my brother as special, bc....BOY...but during and after the divorce they sort of considered boy THEIRS, girls belong to the mother's side.  What a f'd up gross way to throw it all away, bc YOU f'd up, Dad.  Just..... splendid.  Andit was all Mom's fault.... SHE was the slut, the lazy as cat shit, the greedy, the one who cared only about herself selfish person and you wwere the victim, "crying" about it, never shutting the F up about it, from our POV.

All that anger and hate and vengeance.... directed at Mom..... but delivered TO your children.  WTH, dad?

Really F'd up and I can see how I've set out to protect my children as best I could and nevr ever ever blame them for the stupid shite I've done.  All the shame and blaming....... how terrible you must have felt about that.  Just buried so deeply in it you couldn't begin to undo it.  Sitting in that chair, paralyzed...... might have been a splendid relief in many ways. 

You should have chosen the love of your life.... and you said so..... instead of choosing the third world woman who worked for peanuts and promised to take care of your parents FOR you.  And so you chose her, and kept both women until the ultimatum came down.....and you chose poorly. Yu admitted it.

I think the most scathing piece in this, for me...... my sister and Iwere accused of behaving "like women".... or how toxic masculine men FEEL women behave .... when the truth was.... the men in our lives were the ones actually behaving that way.  I remember being so frustrated by the hypocrisy but not understanding what IT WAS I was looking at.  I was rendered speechless by the hypocrisy.  Just...... speechless. 

Being unjustly accused......was really.....
the HYPOCRISY.... after I'd sucked it up, never whined, always tried to carry my weight...... really and truly, I think my having so much masculine energy drew men with feminine energy TO me.  I think it happens with DD18, as well.  I think it's f'd up to have a belief system LIKE THAT in my brain... in my dd's brains..... it's not fair to anyone, frankly. It serves no one.

So... that's a lot to unpack. 

Thanks for your input, Hops. 

Lighter
P.S. Apologies for the long post on your thread, Amber.



sKePTiKal

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Re: 2021 Farm Log
« Reply #254 on: June 14, 2021, 10:01:03 AM »
No problem Lighter.

In my recent investigative perambulations I was reviewing the basics of Nism again. I hear a lot of projection in how you describe your Dad - his behavior. And the whole parental alienation trip, I believe, happens more often concurrently with a higher degree of Nism. (Not dismissing the mysoginist tendencies - but that's too much to unpack all at once.) The head games in that overlap a lot with Nism.

With divorce so prevalent in our society (and the alternative being even worse) a lot of people have experience with this alientation syndrome - from different angles, too. Kids can suffer no matter how hard the parents try not to behave in an openly hostile fashion too. And for one reason or another, keep it to themselves. I wouldn't have any idea what it's like to have a parent bend over backwards to try to help me sort out things like this... even though I tried to be that parent. It might have unexpected impacts I just don't perceive. Ya know? It's one reason Hol & I try to talk at this depth... comparing notes, different perceptions, what really happened vs what everyone expected before it did.

For some years now, I believed examining my relationship with my Dad was just as potentially helpful - as my more obvious Mom - but in my case, my actual interactions and memories are so sparse that I have richer "files" about my neighbors than my Dad. I do occasionally get more insight by talking to the old-timers at the shop... and then have to filter the normal perceptual distortions a bit, to try to get at who I "think" he was under the boss hat. I already know why.

The generational echo & continuation of this kind of family trauma/dysfunction is a very real thing. So, even though the lens Hol might be looking at all of her experience with, might put me in the hot seat sometimes... the least I can do is try to answer her questions, compare our separate experiential memories, etc. I know she won't turn it into an excuse for bad behavior; her stated goal is to stop the generational flow into the future. I tried, too.

I can only hope that each little bit progress that we can make together/individually at manifesting something different than the generational dysfunction... contributes to people becoming wiser and safer from the worst impacts.

Oh, and one of the worst things Deb is feeling right now is her helplessness in the face of her sib's hypocrisy & projection. She is grieving that treatment & wound, right alongside missing her mom. And is now in the process of trying to move. Somewhere; temporary but long enough to let everything settle and decide what her next chapter is going to look like.
Success is never final, failure is never fatal.