Emerging Narcissists or Growing Your Own

[Laura]

Maybe I've missed this topic, but I'm wondering if anyone else out there is observing some strong narcissitic tendencies in their children as they are growing into adulthood.  My 21 year-old son (who would certainly come by it honestly from his N dad and three of his four grands) is exhibiting more and more N characteristics.  Any of you other parents out there observing this?  If so, I'd like to hear how're you're dealing with that Twilight Zone feeling of seeing your child turn into one of the types that make you/me recoil from previous conditioning.
Thanks!

LaBoo

[Mum]

Tough one, LaBoo.

I have heard my exN described as an "arrested adolescent" (although I would call him younger).... and I am not sure what age, exactly, if there is one, that kids are supposed to start acting "grown up".  Does your son live with you still?  Is this behavior only with you and his family or is it everywhere?

My kids are adolescents, and trademark behavoir for adolescents is selfish by definition....at least at home.  Out in the world, everyone thinks they are wonderful, which I know to be a truer version of who they really are than how they behave with parents (they won't live with me forever).
That said, their dad is a textbook NPD, so I do worry about this.
They have seen Dad win in court, control our lives because of that, and I have concerns that they will see this as benificial behavoir.  However, they also see that he is angry most of the time, they do not feel free to have "real" heartfelt discussions with him (they just don't do it) and do not feel he has their best interest at heart.

I have a friend, though, whose oldest child is angry, abusive and unhappy, just like her ex.  She is at a loss, and now can only protect herself and her other children from his anger.  

So, lots of help I am, but would love to see some responses.  Good question!

[Anonymous]

http://groups.msn.com/CopingwiththePsychopathNarcissist/Child/whatarethesignsofanarcissist.msnw

[Anonymous]

http://groups.msn.com/CopingwiththePsychopathNarcissistChild/whatarethesignsofanarcissist.msnw

2nd try

[Kaz]

Hi Laura,
I think what's important here is that even if your son had one N parent, he still has one that isn't.
And you still have a responsibility to be the decent parent to your 21 year old, especially now that you see signs of him following in his father's footsteps.
Also, it is important that your 'good' parenting skills should override your own 'previous conditioning'. Maybe you need help with this?

[Stormchild Guesting Again]

I watched my sibling grow up N. It was like living in a horror movie. I knew something was very wrong with them, and I could even see some of the things that were wrong, but I couldn't do anything about it, and I couldn't get away from it.

And of course my N mother was rewarding it and my father was enabling it, both of them with both hands as fast as they could shovel. (And punishing me with both hands ditto because I kept challenging the rewarding and enabling. Simply by comparing their responses to my sib with their responses to everyone else who acted the way my sib was acting.)

I honestly think my sibling is an N made, not born. Who would always have had selfish tendencies, but didn't have to be a total waste of time and space.

Laura, there's one thing I thought of that I don't want to worry you with but think I should mention: some emotional disorders emerge in early adulthood. You might want to talk to a professional about any extreme behavior, and see if they recognize it. This could help you know how best to respond. It could be something treatable (of course, he has to want treatment, but at least you would know).

Stormchild

[sleepyhead]

Oh, what a scary situation! But most children of N's show N traits without necessarily being N. We do what we see. Children from dysfunctional families also often act like the abusive parent, since they seem to have the power, and they don't seem to get hurt. But the good news is that N behaviour can be altered if the person is not truly N. I think a lot of us here that are children of N's sometimes look back at how we behaved when we were younger and cringe with embarassment and shame, because we would never behave like that now. But even if you think that he is truly N, there might be a small glimmer of hope. I read somewhere (sorry can't remember where) that the behaviour "sets" in their twenties. I don't know if that means that you can turn it around before that happens or if the writer just meant that it becomes more visible during this time. I don't even know if it's true. But sometimes we have to grasp at straws... My suggestion would be to not openly question his behaviour, but rather to try to get him question it himself. Not easy, I know, but worth a try? Meanwhile, I'm going to keep my fingers crossed that he isn't really N, even if it might make it difficult for me to type that way.

[LaBoo]

The biggest concern I have is my own tendency to automatically fall into that enabling role where I knock myself out to get everything right (still trying to get noticed/valued) and feel like crap and totally deserving then of not being valued.  

My N-tendency son is home from college for the week and I'm resisting the urge to do his laundry, fix all of his favorite foods, the things I happily do for the other college-age kids when they come home - things that they appreciate, but things that Jared never acknowledges.  His dad and grandmother pay him for spending time with them, but I think that's very disturbing.  

I suppose that more than anything I'm grieving.  I learned from my N dad and from my N former spouse that you can't make someone love you and you lose your self-respect trying.

[Stormchild]

My N-tendency son is home from college for the week and I'm resisting the urge to do his laundry, fix all of his favorite foods, the things I happily do for the other college-age kids when they come home - things that they appreciate, but things that Jared never acknowledges.  His dad and grandmother pay him for spending time with them, but I think that's very disturbing.  

I suppose that more than anything I'm grieving.  I learned from my N dad and from my N former spouse that you can't make someone love you and you lose your self-respect trying.

(((LaBoo)))

Oh dear. Is the dad paying Jared for visits the same person as your N former spouse? And is that grandmother your mom, or his dad's mom? I'm trying to see if this is all coming from the N side of the family....  

And you're right, you can't make anyone love you... but you can come here, where people love one another...  

[Anonymous]

Double hug (((((((((((Laboo)))))))))

You can also try to communicate more clearly.  For instance, you can say to him:

"I'd like to cook your favorite food, while you're here, because I'd like to show you how much I care about you, but I'm not sure you even notice the effort I put into doing that, and I feel hurt when that happens."

If it's no skin off his nose and if he has nothing to say about how he really does appreciate it, then at least you have expressed your feelings to him and opened the door for him to communicate back, if he so chooses.

The big thing is to decide ahead of time that no matter what he says or doesn't say.....you will not allow it to hurt you further.  Like water off a duck.

If the response is really not a nice one, you can say:

"I just wanted to express how I feel and that I still care, no matter what, but I feel like spegetti tonight and I think that's what I'll cook". (not his favorite but tolerable choice of yours).

You are still parenting him and teaching him the consequences of behaviour.  There's still value in that.

GFN

[LaBoo]

Oh dear. Is the dad paying Jared for visits the same person as your N former spouse? And is that grandmother your mom, or his dad's mom? I'm trying to see if this is all coming from the N side of the family....  

Yep, that's his dad and his dad's mother with whom dad has lived since I got away from him in 2000.  

I actually spoke to my son yesterday about his apparent indifference to his family and how that makes me feel.  It's a conversation we have infrequently but regularly - probably annually.  He always seems completely clueless but then does seem to show some effort in trying to engage.  I feel hopeful in those moments, but we invariably always drift back to the old, familiar pattern.  I think that like his dad (and grandmother) that he just has very little need for any real emotional intimacy or connection.  As long as there is a veneer of congeniality for the public perception, that's all that matters.

[Anonymous]

Hi Laboo:

I've been thinking about these words:

I think.........that he just has very little need for any real emotional intimacy or connection.

Has he ever said this or have you talked with him about his need (non-need)?

You have a need for emotional intimacy and a desire for a close connection with him, though, right Laboo?

That's the part that hurts.  It's so hard to accept that you can't get water from a stone.          

I wish I had something of use to say to help ease the pain.  I don't.  I can only say that I understand and that you must do your best to take credit for being a good parent, for wanting to have a close relationship with him, and for trying to make that happen.

When you get tired of trying.....if you get tired of trying.......a rest will be understandable and due and necessary for your own sanity.

GFN