Anyone else having a poopy day?

[Anonymous]

Hi again Blue:

I feel that the main reason i am hanging on is because of the time,money and energy i have put into this relationsip...

So what is the pay off? (playing Dr. Phil now, with long hair---heehee).

You've invested time, money and energy into this relationship and he has not.

What good things are you getting from this relationship, after putting all of you time, money and energy into it? (for you to think about--not to answer unless you really want to).

I cannot tell anyone what is going on ebcxause they do nto beleive it..they see him as someone kind,outgoing and i am the one that has the "problems"

I feel sad for you Blue.   It's so hard to feel so alone in all of this.  These people are such magicians at giving the illusion of wonderfulness and painting you as the villan.

I believe you, Blue.  I believe that he is the one who has hurt you and I believe you when you say you have tried so hard and have only been made out to be the "problem".

Its scary how well they can carry all this off.

Personally, I think they get off on the fear that produces.  They enjoy watching us squirm and they like the power their words can have.
The real way to escape is to take that power away and forget completely about what other people think....... and do what you know is right and what is best for you.  Who cares what anybody else thinks?

Easy for me to say eh?

I do have a question. Do N's have issues wiht spending tons of money??

I'm no expert but thanks for asking and getting me to think about it.  In my family......yes.......big problems.  Problems with spending money they don't have.  With stealing money.  And a real biggie......greeeeeeed!
Terrible, what seems unsatisfyable greeeeeeeed!  Big time!

He always wants me to buy him gifts and will spend hours looking on EBay for things (any thing..but it is usally stuff that is always costly) He will ask me to stay in the room (he calls this "intimacy) while he hunts for stuff.

This is also a control issue.  He wants to control you.  Every "gift" you buy him, that he convinces you to buy, or guilts you into it, or however gets you to get it......is a win for him.  He controlled you.  He likes that.  A lot.
He gets you to spend your money on him and he gets you to do it when and on what he wants.  Yep.  He's controlling.

Im so tired of it. But when i try to leave he keeps telling me to stay.

I'm not sure if you're with him now or not but if you are......get a headache next time.  If you're not with him now.......post here when you feel the urge to contact him.  Even if it means posting 47 times per hour, every hour on the hour, for days on end.  For every moment you spend thinking about him....you could be posting here...and purging some of the feelings that are tormenting you......putting down your thoughts.....and making sence of your situation.  And others will support you all the way!!!

We never never hold each other,touch each others hands etc and if i want to kiss him i have to ask him He recoils as if it is torture for him.

I'm going to keep playing the same record because that's what helps me sometimes and if I get on your nerves......just tell me and I'll stop but for now:

So what's the payoff?  

You're with a man who recoils from you and refuses to show affection, even the tiniest bit.  What are you getting out of staying with him?  How is it paying off?

Sex has always been regulated by him..and he says things like ""Im trying to "drain" him??"

He regulates it??  

Drain him???

Dear, dear Blue.  This man is already drained of any bit of human kindness, of any bit of intimacy, of any real feeling.  How is this paying off for you?

It's hurting you.    He's hurting you.

I wonder if i will ever get free

The question is.....why are you staying? (not for me---for you to think about).

You deserve so much more than this!
You deserve to be loved and treated with respect and kindness.
You deserve to be in a relationship with a person who considers your feelings and your needs and your wishes too.
Someone who wants to hold your hand and kiss you and make love with you.

Not some dorph who wants to suck your financially dry and spit you out and then tell everyone  that YOU  have problems.

Ok...I hope I didn't offend you here.  I really do mean well.  I don't like this guy you're with.  I don't like the way he treats you.  I don't think you deserve to be treated the way he treats you.  I don't think anyone deserves that.

If your daughter was with a guy who treated her like this....what would you want for her????

What example are you teaching her about how relationships between a man and a woman should be???

((((((((((((Blue))))))))))))))

GFN

[(andrea)]

We never never hold each other,touch each others hands etc and if i want to kiss him i have to ask him He recoils as if it is torture for him. Sex has always been regulated by him..and he says things like ""Im trying to "drain" him??" ..has anyone gone though this?

YES YES YES. (haha, joke on me, I wish our sex life was like that).
Same thing, we don't touch, we don't kiss or "make out" never have. Sometimes I have to beg him to kiss me and he'll sigh and be like Uh, FINE! Like a little kid. I can leave his house in the am and he'll be like, "Bye, talk to you later.." No kiss goodbye, not even a hug.

If he's leaving at the same time, he expects me to wait for him. What? To slam the door shut after me and THEN say, "talk to you later" ?

This past Christmas, he bought me some very nice gifts. I had a few glasses of wine and was feeling cheerful and said thanks for everything, and went to kiss him on the cheek. He pushed me away to stop me. (Ok, now I'm crying). He hurt me so badly in one single moment.

But you know, the funny thing is, we slept in together a lot in bed at his home. And he would cling to me for dear life while sleeping, arms wrapped tightly around me, kiss me on the forehead, pull me as close as he could to him...but like I said, it was like get out in the am.

Maybe he could only be emotionally "safe" when he was sleeping?

[mum]

hey, Blue (is that your post name?).  GFN is a wise woman.  What she says has been proven true in my life and most likely in others on this board.  
For me, I came to realize that I had some real core beliefs about myself that were just plain WRONG!!  One was that I was not worthy.  Another was that to prove I loved, I must suffer.  It may sound ridiculous, but until I realized these beliefs were at the center of things, I kept making the same kind of choices that supported those horrible self concepts.

Believe us.....we know how the N's work.  He's a sick sick man.  His sickness is NOT TO BE PITIED by you. (this one was tough for me).  Why? Because this "pity" is many times what keeps us coming back for more.  One little bread crumb of kindness and we forget ourselves and forget to LOVE OURSELVES!!  You will be not be able to truly love ANYONE if you cannot find love first for yourself.
Repeat after me: I am strong.  I am beautiful.  I am worthy of my dreams!!  Okay, now here's the rub: what is your dream?  If it is for this abusive peice of dirt to "love" you....YOU NEED A NEW DREAM.
You deserve true love, we all do.  
When I left my ex (after similar abuse and cheating and and and), I said..."my children will not learn that this (our pitiful abusive marriage) is what love is....and if I never find another man, it won't matter.......my children will learn what true love is by the way I love myself!!!!!"
You owe that to yourself and your daughter.
Bless you.  I'm sending you power and strength!!! YOU are wonderful, just as you are!  It's okay if you put up with it (we all did) but you don't have to anymore.

[longtire]

blue, I agree wholeheartedly with mum, GFN, lara and andrea.

I have had many of the same (exact same!) experiences with my wife, but have been unable to just leave the relationship.  Every time I head for the door, I have a panic attack and run back in.  I have been bouncing back and forth like a ping pong ball and have a LOT more sympathy for us poor ping pong balls now!  Its not so much what my wife is doing that keeps me here, its what I have been doing to myself.  See my "My Long, Long Story" thread if you want the gory details.   I'm working with my therapist to get to the bottom of this.  I expect that the answer to stay or go will be obvious and doable for me once I deal with my stuff.

As for the touching thing, whatever happened to the idea that "all men are only interested in sex?"  I guess it went the same way as "all women are supportive and nurturing."  Most (all?) of the people on this board have had hurtful experiences that show the lies behind these platitudes.  My wife would ask me to do more non-sexual touch (sex was off limits), like hugs, holding hands and shoulder pats.  However, when I would do these she would accuse me of only wanting sex and told me to stop!  I have asked her for many years where the line between physical touch and sex is for her.  (Its fine with me that she has a line, the problem is it seems to shift depending on what I do so I'm always in the wrong. )  She has never been able or willing to discuss this with me.  She seems a lot more interested in the "appearance" of a good relationship by including all the things she thought that meant (Leave it to Beaver style).  However, when it came time to go through with it, she really doesn't want those things after all.

I admit, that after this had gone on for several years, I stopped the morning kiss, etc.  I felt used to be doing that for her, but not getting anything I wanted or needed in return.  Not even basic conversation.  Of course she used this as further proof that there was something wrong with me and she was even more justified than before in pushing me away.  Honestly, at this point in our "relationship" I probably would recoil if she tried to touch me or kiss me.  I would interpret it as her trying to use me, since we don't talk or have any other basic closeness.  However, she has NEVER tried that in the past and I don't expect her to start now.  Come to think of it, she has always tried to get me to be the one to intitiate contact whether it was verbal, emotional, physical, or sexual.

As far as the money thing goes.  My wife spent all the cash and then racked up credit cards to buy nothing much at all.  She is really into eating out and being pampered by others.  I really wonder if she was just spending to try to make herself feel better?  I don't mean to insult all you wonderful women out there, but that does seem to be a more female thing to do.  I have no problem with that in moderation.  After all, I've done a bit of that myself. However, she denied what she was doing the whole time.  When I pointed out the charges on the credit card bill, she denied making them.  She only admitted it when I told her that I was calling the credit card company to cancel her card since it was obviously stolen.  

I guess what I'm trying to say (besides my own ranting) is that I feel like I understand what you are going through.  Yes, even though I'm a man. Listen to mum and GFN, they are wise, loving women.  Double standards are lies.  If you wouldn't tell your friend or daughter to stay in this relationship, you don't get to tell yourself that either.  However, I know how hard it can be to follow through on this.  The way out of this trap, leaving or not, is to find out what you believe or are telling yourself about yourself and accept that you are not those things.  You are a wonderful person, who is percetly fine.  You deserve all the good things in life.  There is nothing wrong with you.  Anyone in your situation would feel the same and have a hard time coping.

[sleepyhead]

Andrea and Blue/Wildrain (which do you prefer?):
I totally agree with the others who have posted here, what they say is true. I would like to add my point of view as well. My relationship with my xNbf was very similar to yours, no cuddling or kissing. The night I met him he was very into kissing, but of course that disappeared very quickly, when I asked him about it he said that he didn't like kissing! (But he did it when we had sex?) I could beg him for five minutes just for a cuddle, and still not be sure if I would get it. When I was with him, I thought I could not find/get anyone better than this, I also felt so sorry for this poor, poor man, and the horrible childhood he had. I was determined to "help" him and to "save" him, I knew I could make him happy if I only tried hard enough. What complete and utter bs!  Having had a shitty childhood is no excuse for treating other people like shit, and if he was really so sensitive, wouldn't he have been more sensitive to other people's feelings?

Anyway, to cut to the chase: You can do better and you will do better once you get out of these crappy relationships (I know you're out of yours Andrea, but you still miss it/are affected by him?). I have now, for almost seven years, lived with a man who is very cuddly, kissy and affectionate. He may have his problems (don't we all), but he acknowledges them and works on them. He even looks at pictures of kittens and goes "aahh, that's so cuute" (and no, he's not gay ). These men do exist, they're out there, and no, they are not all taken already.

Blue/Wildrain: You say it is hard to leave b/c you have spent so much time, effort and money on this man. I know this feeling well, I've had it too, but don't you think you've spent enough? Do you really want to spend more time, effort and money on him?

Take care, both of you.

[Brigid]

Wildrain,
I don't really having anything new to say, but agree with what everyone else has said.  You deserve to be treated better and your daughter needs to learn better.  

When my H first left, I was so worried about how the kids would be affected by their family coming apart.  Through many hours of therapy, I now know that they will be better off seeing their mother in a healthy, loving relationship down the road, than the empty one that I had with their father.

As far as the money thing goes, my H never kept his spending under control and always had us in debt and figured it would eventually work itself out.  For 22 years I had to try to keep us afloat financially and he had no clue.  Now that I'm on my own, all bills are paid and I have my finances under control.  All debts got paid off when we sold the house and I vowed to never let myself get in the position again.  I'm sure he digging himself into another hole now that he's on his own.

Don't ever expect the sex to get any better either.  If my experience is typical, it will only get worse.  My H hardly ever wanted sex with me and mostly masturbated himself to an orgasm toward the end of our relationship.  Obviously, there is much more to intimacy besides intercourse and I want the whole package in my future relationship.

Think about what you want for yourself and the kind of love you want from your partner.  The man you are with will most likely never provide that for you.  The longer you stay, the harder it is to go.  Cut your losses, go through the pain and come out on the other side.  Find the strength for your sake and that of your daughter.  I know it is not easy, but nothing worth having generally is.  

My thoughts and prayers are with you.

Brigid

[Cadbury]

I too agree with what everyone else has said. I know how hard it is to leave someone. Trust me I have been breaking up with my ex N since October - and I am pregnant with his baby so I HAVE to see him at some point. However, by doing all the things that people on here have suggested - distance, little contact etc it has started to get easier. This morning he phoned me and cried down the phone for ages because he "couldn't believe something so special had ended". A few weeks ago that would have had me at his door feeing bad, today I was just annoyed that he had phoned so early!! So it does get easier, as long as you start to realise that you are worth more and stick to the guidelines regarding contact. Some days are easier than others, I am 7 months pregnant now and I daren't stop working/cleaning/studying as I know that keeping myself busy is what has helped me to stay away.

Day by day you will get through this, every day will be easier until one day when he realises you've gone and finds someone else to terrorise! Good luck keep strong!

I did want to add that another N characteristic sex-wise that my ex had, that I have read about before is the exact opposite of what a lot of you have described. We would have sex two or three times a day and it always had to be "the best ever". He literally would perform oral sex on me until I was begging him to stop, even then sometimes he would keep going. It sounds great, but it was too much. He always had to be congratulated on every aspect of his performance. "Has any other man done that" "was it good" " did you like it" " was that the best you've ever had" etc etc. It was draining. After we had broken up he once came round and tried to force himself on me - not badly, but enough to worry me - and when I was annoyed he turned round and said "but you always said it was your fantasy to be forced". I had once mentioned that, but it was a fantasy for CHrist's sake, and having been through a situation where I was genuinely forced (that he knew about) why would he do that? He really thought that after "all I had done to him" that I was lucky he still wanted to favour me with his sexual prowess!!
Sorry to digress, but I thought it was interesting how different they can apear with the same "me, me, me" mentality beneath it all.

[Lara]

Hi Everyone.
I've been thinking about how difficult it is to leave these men (or women.)
One difficulty may be that we feel we have invested so much in the relationship. It's very difficult to finally accept that actually the r/ship will NEVER work out.

An analogy that comes to my mind is that of a gambler in a club all evening. Maybe the gambler loses in the first few games, but remains confident that eventually he or she will start winning,if he just plays for long enough. As the night goes on, he is still losing, but feels that if he keeps playing, the odds of him eventually winning increase every time.(Of course this is a fallacy!) The reality is of course that it's perfectly possible that he will play all night, never win, and ultimately lose everything.

I wonder if a similar mechanism is operating when we are trying to make a r/ship with an N work. That is why we are still asking questions such as 'Could he change?' Somehow it's so difficult to accept that the love we give somebody will not act like a magic potion on them. We can hardly believe that we can show them unfailing love, support, and understanding, but that at the end of the evening we still haven't 'won.'

So we keep on having just one more try. I think it was Philip who said that somebody asked him if he enjoyed being miserable, and that that made him look at the situation he was in. When I was involved with my ex, I read a book that said that if you felt unhappy in a r/ship for more than 25% of the time, then you should get out. I remember thinking that at that time I was deeply unhappy for at least 90% of the time, but I STILL hesitated about getting out. I just could not believe that the strength of my feelings for him was not bound to make everything between us turn out well eventually.

I was wrong, but it's only the distance in time and space now, that has let me see it.

Sincerely,
Lara.

PS  To Cadbury...I have so much admiration for how you are coping with your situation.Sending you love and hugs!

[Brigid]

Lara,
I think your analogy of the gambler is perfect.  I do think that old habits die hard and we just keep thinking that if we do or say this one more thing that the lightbulb in their heads will go on and they will miraculously change their behavior.  Kind of like the guy (or gal--no one will accuse me of being sexist) who goes into the doctor's office and says "doc, it really hurts when I do this."  The cure is to stop doing whatever 'this' is.

If we play the odds, odds are that things are not going to change and you need to figure out a way to stop the hurt.

Congratulations to those of you who are fighting the good fight and winning.  You will prevail and end up in a better place.

Brigid

[(Andrea)]

Yes, I said me and my ex are no longer together. But we have seen each twice 3 times now since. Usually at the local pub, either running into each other, or actually planning to meet, catch up, and try to be "friends".

The first time (after not seeing each for 2 weeks) he kept looking at me, asking me how I was, trying to make jokes, and it was nice to see him squirm. The next was St. Patty's Day. After consuming too much green beer I passed out at his house. Unfortunatley, someone (me) got sick all over his bed. (Kind of a accidental revenge moment? Lol)

But it does get easier. Last night I met him for drinks. Since I haven't been spending as much time with him, he annoys me. Just listening to the way he talks and tries to be smart, and right all the time. UGH! I like to debate with him now! Any difference in opinio and it gets him going , and the best is when I'm right about something. He gets SOOOO mad. Like we were talking about the Tsunami. He pronounced it TOO SOO NAMI. I was like, uh it's SOO-nami dork. He got SO upset he was wrong. I just laugh inside.  

And he just wants to focus on school now, doesn't want to date for a long time, women are too much trouble, he doesn't care about sex anymore, blah blah. Good. Maybe he'll have time to see a therapist now!

[Cadbury]

Thank you Lara!

It is so freaky how similar these people are. My ex is also now at the "I will never date anyone again" stage. I am at the same stage as you Andrea where he is really starting to annoy me. I have become very petty as a result!! It is nice to see that we are all getting through it day by day. It gives me hope.

[(Andrea)]

You know, it's true...the more people you talk to on here, and see their stories, it's seems like a LOT of these N's are extremely similiar. (Maybe they were all born on an "N" planet somewhere far far away?) They were dropped to earth in the night in little "Pods"?

Yeah, I'm doing better each day. I got home last night and didn't even bother to call him, and although we used to go out on Tues, Wed, and Thurs. when I get off work, I don't really want to see him. I kind of don't even care if he's out at a bar or club and meets someone. It hurts a little, but I also think, "Boy, what a TREAT she's in for!"
Today I got dressed up for work, thinking that I might "see him" after work. That's old thinking though. I won't be seeing him tonight. I'll be going home after work. I can't worry about what he's up to. I should be getting dressed up for myself more often too. Not for him!

I ran into his sister in law the other day and we had a great chat. She said her and my ex had a very hard time getting along when they first met. She thinks he's a complete A@$hole in her words. She said Why do you put up with that? He's a male chauvinist, obnoxious, rude, etc. She said all he wants in a woman is instant gratification (One nighter)  a maid, and cook. He doesn't want an adult relationship with the committment, and the responsibility. And she said he did grow up in a bad family, and her being married to my ex's brother, said she herself had to put in a lot of work to get her husband over stuff. And she asked me, do you really want to play therapist all your life? And still not be good enough?

(And I found out he was telling them he can't go out with me because I'm "Overweight". The sister in law told him to bugg off and told him I'm just fine, that he's got the issues, not me)