borderline combined with narcissism

[vunil]

Ok, instead of continuing to highjack Bridget's thread, I'm starting this afresh here.

I am just wondering if anyone else had to deal with a parent or loved one who showed borderline tendencies along with the N?  For instance, they yelled at you for no reason, got angry without provocation, were upset when something happened that the last time it happened they were fine, and just in general were a powder keg of insecure instability.

Did they ever get better? My mom and sister, who were both that way, are much better now but appear to have gone "underground" with their anger.  Now they just silently fume and then call someone to complain about whoever offended them, for hours.  So I guess the disorder is still there.  Sometimes my sister still lashes out and throws things.

The most disturbing thing I realize was that I myself had these tendencies (not as badly as they did, but still there) in my 20's.  A lot of drama, a lot of public fights with lovers, a lot of irrational behavior, especially in love affairs.  I always had the most dramatic situation possible, like I was in some soap opera of my own making.  I was the other woman, stuff like that-- really stupid.  Maybe it is tough not to become like that if you are raised by N parents-- it's not as if I had a clue how to relate to people, especially boyfriends.  Now I am nothing like that, but I am embarrassed to think that I was and wonder what the lasting legacies are.

Anyway.  It's a new revelation for me and I'd love advice.  In particular, I don't know how to deal with that simmering unpredictable anger that my mother and sister still have.  The N part makes it hard for them to tell me where it comes from.

[bunny]

vunil,

I'm so used to borderline behaviors in my family. I also had borderline tendencies when I was younger, before I got help. I don't think there is any lasting legacy except that I spot this stuff very quickly.

The main defense or strategy with a borderline is firmness and self-assurance. Boundaries are critical. They are always testing to see whether the person will cave or not. Don't cave, no matter what they pull on you. Sulking, being offended: ignore all of it. At least let them think you're ignoring it. If they call someone to complain for hours, who cares. As long as it isn't you.

BTW I am not perfect in dealing with them but I'm much better than I was.

bunny

[mum]

At my last visit with my therapist, she said something about borderline and narcissism being overlapped in a majority of those people....like they tend to come as a package deal many times.  It was at the end of the appointment, so I will ask her more next time.

[vunil as guest]

Thanks Bunny!  I am really BAD at that, I have to say.  I end up trying to have a rational conversation to figure out why they are angry.  Like you would do with a regular-type person-- let's talk about it!  It doesn't work a bit.  Last weekend I told my mom the names I have picked for the baby and she got angry at the name I picked from her family.  Which is so weird-- she gave my sister the same middle name.  And I didn't HAVE to pick a name from her family at all.  When I asked why she was upset she said "oh, well [use very clipped voice], it's [very long pause] fine."  It ruined the conversation and almost ruined my weekend.  I have no idea how to ignore it when she does that;  the scientist in me wants to understand.  The annoying thing is the next time I talk to her she might be thrilled with the idea, with no memory at all of her previous fury.

As I type this I realize I never should tell her anything sensitive, that I am invested in emotionally.  Aha.  How you do this when you are pregnant and everything is investing I don't know, but AHA.


Mum, if it doesn't use up time better spent on you, I'd love to hear what your t says!

[vunil as guest]

PS  I remember my mother always used to say (clipped voice again) "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."  So she goes stony silent all of the time.  Because, you know, no one would ever know that she was being disapproving...!  It took me years to realize what stupid advice that saying gives. Just the "can't" in it says volumes about my mom's N tendencies.

[Bliz]

I'm pretty sure the ex is also borderline.  Oh yea, throw in a little OCD.  I believe my mother was too.  "I hate you, Don't leave me".  I think that was the name of the book I read about borderline personality disorder.

However, I once worked with adults with mental and emotional disabilites and thought borderline was kind of a catch phrase for alot of different things that fit no other category.  I do believe the borderlines test you.  But what is the prize if you win?

[Anonymous]

First prize - one week spent 24/7 with the person teseting you.

Second prize - TWO weeks spent 24/7 with the person testing you.

(apologies to W.C. Fields and the City of Philadelphia).

[bunny]

It ruined the conversation and almost ruined my weekend.

Well that's her unconscious goal.

If you want to understand, here it is: She is envious and needs to spoil your happiness. Period. She doesn't consciously believe this and if you ever mentioned it she would deny it angrily. So don't mention it...

How to react. When she start sulking/disapproving, here are some options: (a) change the subject; (b) leave. Don't react with sadness, hurt, etc. Just act like nothing happened. At most, you can aopear somewhat curious/puzzled about her anger. But don't let her see you upset because it reinforces her behavior. Then process it later with your t.

bunny

[Bliz]

Funny...(W.C. Fields)  

Yes there is not prize for going through the test.  I could never undersatnd why the ex Nbeau would get so mad/unhappy about the most peculiar things.  He would take a great day, adventure and ruin it with his weird take on things or random ragings.  It does make sense that he was jealous of other people's happiness.  He purposedly tried not to laugh about stuff and wouldnt even go to comedy movies. (another thread..no sense of humor).   It had to be some bleak drama all the time.  He loved movies and I never could figure that out except as maybe an escape from his own bleak life.  

Now that I have disconnected and healed from our relationship, (at least I think so),  I feel so sad for the man he could have been.  He had so much promise as a younger man.  Now he is seriously in debt, fat, stringy long ex-hippie hair.  What happened to that smiling, creative boy that I first met who was great at so many things?  Long buried under all this dysfunction.

[newbiehere]

My mom is what I believe to be a histrionic/narcissistic personality combined with Borderline tendencies. I have read on other places on the web about borderline and she seems to fit, along with my other sisters and one brother.
Her histrionic./narcissism traits?
Grandiosity/Lying/Manipulation
HUGE entitlement issues. If I take her to the doctor or the grocery store, she wants to make a big deal about standing and waiting in line. THis woman just cannot do that. She believes she is above it. She also has everyone do menial tasks for her such as clean her house, do chores and etc.

She will lie or exaggerate when the truth would be much easier. I don't understand how this happens and she has told some whoppers on everyone in her lifetime.

She identifies and will talk all day long incessently about movie stars or sports stars, yet will talk down and badmouth her family members   even when they are helping her or doing everything for her.

Borderline traits she has is HYPOCHONDRIA.
I yelled that word didn't I? sorry about that but please understand that she is sick all the time! If anyone else claims to be sick, she is SICKER than they. I don't care if they have weeks to live. If she is well and finds out that someone coming to visit has been or is sick, she within hours will be sicker than they are......

She will have people take her to the hospital over a stomach ache or a sore toe, or a sore throat. If it is in the middle of the night, so much the better.

Has rages/then the next day she will be sweeter than syrup.

I was raised by her , seemed that growing up I was the one taking care of things, and especially her. I didn't have a mother and still do not but I am now so used to it, it's nothing now.

[Stormchild Guesting]

Hi newbie, you're describing my narcissistic mother very closely. And I'll bet you hear from a lot more of us along similar lines.

Don't worry about using capital letters, a lot of us do that, and sometimes we use asterisks too.

That 'sicker-than-you' contest stuff eventually killed my mother. She had Munchausen's Syndrome, and also Munchausen's by Proxy... took advantage of my father's disability to tamper with his medication schedule, etc., trying to worsen his symptoms to garner sympathy for herself. And she had a sense of entitlement well over the border of obscenity.

You came to the right place, m'dear. Pull up a chair, get a cuppa, and join in. We get the stuff out into the light, where it can be disinfected, and heal.

((((((((((newbiehere))))))))))

[newbiehere]

Thanks for the welcome stormchild.  I am in my 30's and mom is in her 70's. I see her but cannot stay around her for very long. One thing I neglected to mention is that when there is a crowd around her or people that she can extract attention from she acts out.

I dread when we have a family get-together because she will act out and if anyone attempts to have a discussion, she will bomb it at will. She will interject about whatever they're talking about and tell them how WRONG they are lol.
She must be the center of attention or she will leave, go to bed, act up, etc....

She especially loves to do this to my dad. He lets her do it also but if I'm there I stop her.
She likes to tell him how he feels, etc....
If he feels fine, she will tell everyone how BAD he feels.

If he wants to go somewhere, she will abruptly tell him why he cannot

One thing that I have always suffered from is when people who do not know her ask very sweetly, HOW IS MOM?
I just tell them "fine"
They don't know what it's like Storm, if you are not around her behind closed doors, you just don't know what a crazy house it truly is.

I know that you know and many others on this board do as well, that's why it feels good to air all this mess for once.....Glad I found this board.

[Stormchild Guesting]

Newbiehere -- have you read a book called "Why is it Always About You?" author = Sandra Hotchkiss. It's about narcissists, and there's a bit about how it gets soooo much worse as they age.

Your mother sounds very narcissistic. That business of hogging attention at parties (whew!). My mother tried stuff like that at other people's weddings, even. And a lot of folks here have had harrowing experiences even at funerals (myself included) but I'll let them tell about it as seems appropriate.

Welcome, again.