too much

[October]

Jdm

I think you are right not to go to the funeral.

I wondered as I read this thread what funerals are for, and why it is so important to your mother and sisters for you to go.

As I see it, funerals are firstly to allow us to say goodbye to loved ones, which is not the case here.  Secondly, they are to allow us closure, which you do not need or want; if anything you want validation.  And perhaps thirdly, they allow us to re-write history.  I think this may be where you are wanted; to enable this rewriting to happen.  Perhaps without you it cannot be as complete as others need.  Good.  You are perfectly right, and within your rights, to refuse to go.

I never yet went to the funeral of a scoundrel, or anyone who was married to a scoundrel, and if you look in a graveyard, they are full of saints and well beloved people.  I have no idea where they bury the others.    

So you know - we all know - that when we go to a funeral we are not going to hear anything objective.  We are never going to hear what a b****** this person was, and how they beat their spouse, or abused their kids.  It is going to be about how loving they were, and how kind, and how much they will be missed.

The best thing, in my view, is that if you cannot buy into this fake story (assuming it is fake) in advance, then you are best staying away, whoever it is.  (I have told my best friends that if anything ever happens to me, stay away from the funeral.  It will not be about me, it will be about my family's interpretation of who I am, and they know nothing whatever.  So don't go.)

That shows no disrespect for the deceased, but also prevents you having to collude in the lies by being there.  After all, there is no place in the funeral service where the minister asks; If there is anyone here who knows good reason why this person should not be accorded a Christian burial, they are to declare it now.'  Perhaps this is just as well.  

Stay away, and be happy.  I am sorry you were abused, and I am even more sorry that your family does not help you with this.  Let the dead bury the dead.  You just concentrate on living.  

[Jaded911]

I do not think you are being overly sensitive at all.  I actually think that you are being a better women then I would be in that situation.  How dare you mother!  I wonder at times how some people justify their actions in their own minds.  If it were my child this happened to I would have pressed charges immediately and that would be the end of that story.  If I were your father, I would have taken justice into my own hands and pounded the guys face in.

It is the responsiblity of a parent to love, nurture, and protect their children and by gosh especially in a situation like this.  Im sorry for what im about to say, but with a mother like that, I wouldn't even attend her funeral!

[Brigid]

Thanks to all of you for the hugs.  It is not an easy subject for me to talk about and one I kept stuffed away for many, many years.  The first time I brought it up as an adult was when I was part of a educational review board for the human growth and development curriculum for our school district.  As I listened to people say that we shouldn't teach sex ed to children under the age of 11 or 12 I finally had to speak up and share why it was important that they know about their bodies and what is appropriate and inappropriate touch, etc., at an age younger than that.  I didn't understand much of what was happening to me at that time because no one had ever explained my body to me.

I remember feeling very embarrassed to be talking about it and people had such shock on their faces.  I think I have always felt that I could have prevented it and I should not have let it happen.

I agree with Vunil that parents can put children in situations that allow this to happen.  That is what happened to me.  My parents allowed their 9-year-old daughter to be out at night, "playing", alone, with a 14-year-old boy.  They never even questioned why my friend was not with us.  I cannot imagine ever having allowed that to go on in my home.  

It sickens me to hear the stories of abuse of children, no matter what kind of abuse it is.  It is all just so disturbing.  When parents do not defend and support their abused children (assuming they weren't the abusers), they are only extending the abuse further.

I'm sorry for all of us who have had to endure this.

Brigid

[Stormchild]

That shows no disrespect for the deceased, but also prevents you having to collude in the lies by being there.  After all, there is no place in the funeral service where the minister asks; If there is anyone here who knows good reason why this person should not be accorded a Christian burial, they are to declare it now.'  Perhaps this is just as well.  

HEAR HEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Stormchild]

I think child molestation is so common because many parents let it happen.  Certainly it can happen to the best parents, but I just don't think it would be so prevalent if there weren't such shitty parents out there who basically volunteer their kids for abuse.

Vunil, you nailed it. Nothing can improve upon this for precision, accuracy, or sheer poetic intensity of expression.

         

[vunil as guest]

So you liked the poetic use of the word "shitty?"  I tried to think of a more intellectual word and couldn't get myself to change it...

[Stormchild Guesting]

So you liked the poetic use of the word "shitty?"  I tried to think of a more intellectual word and couldn't get myself to change it...

It's perfect, just the way it is. And perfectly on target.

[d's mom]

brigid vunil & others - im just speechless.  you are very very much in my thoughts.

jdm - how AWFUL to be told your feelings are nothing and by your own mother too. i agree, she has a very unusual definition of 'cruel'..... not only would i not go to that funeral but i would spend that whole day doing whatever makes -you- feel good. make it a self care day for loving yourself. whatever is a treat that makes you feel loved and special. and i -wouldnt- explain why. just a 'no thank you, i have other plans that day'

thats my suggestion.
d's mom

[jdm]

I just want to thank everyone for the support.  I was feeling really terrible when I completed this post, and it helped so much to have my feelings confirmed.

I do want to respond to something Vunil wrote:

I think child molestation is so common because many parents let it happen.  Certainly it can happen to the best parents, but I just don't think it would be so prevalent if there weren't such shitty parents out there who basically volunteer their kids for abuse.

I mean, look at these families who let their kids sleep alone with Michael Jackson years after the abuse allocations! (apologies if anyone feels he is innnocent-- maybe he is, but we can all agree that we wouldn't leave our little boy with him, just in case...)
vunil

In general, I don't believe parents "volunteer" their children for abuse outside the home. The parents may be blind to it, they may handle it very badly once it is revealed, but I think they simply don't realize it could happen to their kids.  Certainly, that was the case in a small town 30 years ago.  Things are different now.

Which brings us to the Michael Jackson case.  MJ is one sick puppy, IMO, but I'm not sure that he broke any laws.  Child sexual abuse is, from a legal standpoint, quite technical.  I once did a project where I had to classify a few hundred criminal code violations in one jurisdiction according to the FBI's much shorter list of crime categories.  The sexual crimes were the most difficult.  What is assault, what is forcible rape (the FBI category), etc.  It was very revealing, for example, to learn how many sexual crimes are misdemeanors--in most places, no jail time at all!

Of course, when celebrity and great wealth come into play, people often lose their heads.  I suspect that the woman who testified against Jackson would do anything to reverse the events that transpired--mostly, she wishes her head had not been turned by Jackson's shiny platinum credit cards.  Since her son has not spoken to her in over a decade, I suspect something very bad happened to him.  I suspect that he would say his mother pimped him.  I suspect he would be right.

At any rate, I just wanted to say that I don't think it's right to blame the parents if the child is abused, particularly outside the home.  (And often, inside the home, if the child is being abused, so is the mother.)  Today's parents may be at once hyper-vigilant and woefully ignorant of what their kids are actually doing, but their intentions are, as always, good.  And I don't think it's fair to draw parallels between Michael Jackson and any other human being on the face of the earth.

But even though I disagree with something you wrote, Vunil, I of course thank you for the words of support and encouragement.  As I thank everyone else here.  It helps--a lot.

jdm

[vunil as guest]

At any rate, I just wanted to say that I don't think it's right to blame the parents if the child is abused, particularly outside the home.

Hi, JDM--

I said in my original post that there were definitely cases that weren't the parents' fault, and it does happen to the best of parents despite their best intentions.  The person who is most to blame is the abuser.  But I do think that sometimes parents are guilty of a more minor offense, not for doing it but for allowing it.  I think this because my parents are to blame for what happened to me.

We had someone on this list (I am sorry I can't remember who now!) whose parents sent their young son to a strange man's house for the summer.  I mean.... !  All I was saying was that it would be much less common with more vigilent parents. It would still happen, of course, because weirdos do abound, and some will abduct kids, etc.  But I have heard a lot of stories on this board that sound exactly like volunteering for abuse, and my story is like that, too. It's all unconscious, but parents do it.

As for poor MJ, I don't think they'll convict him and with that zoo of a trial I don't know that they should-- I was just speaking of a public example of parents not being as vigilent as they could have.  And he paid them not to be.  Yucky yuck all around, especially since MJ paid for the kid's expensive medical treatment.  It's really awful and I do feel for everyone involved, especially if the mother is repentent.  My parents, and a lot of parents, are not, which...  is all I was saying

cheers,
vunil

[vunil as guest]

oops I think I highjacked the thread!  I didn't mean to!

JDM I think we agree anyway-- I just didn't state my point subtlely enough.

[Anonymous]

Hi everyone,
I tried to respond to this thread a few times but always deleted what I wrote because it was very angry and probably not very helpful. This is the best I can do.

Sometimes when I look at my wife and she doesn't know I'm looking my heart skips a couple of beats because she's so beautiful. And sometimes when I look at my twelve year old daughter my heart skips again because I'm afraid she may end up even more beautiful than her mom. I have been given the priveledge of guarding these two with my life.
I cannot conceive of the mentality of parents who would behave as many of yours did.

jdm, I cannot understand your parent's acting like it didn't happen.

Vunil, I can't understand your's not guarding you with their life.

I don't think they deserved to have beautiful little chldren to guard. I don't think they deserve much of anything other than scorn.

As far as I'm concerned there are things in this world that scuttle between rocks and slither in and out of their dank little burrows and they even sometimes sit on their porch at night smoking a cigarette watching their neighbors daughter in the dark.
I would like to step on these things until their insides come out and their scaly hard tails start flicking from side to side and they die.

Guest, little boys who have never been taught right from wrong aren't these things that need to be stepped on, but I am sure it still hurts.

And Brigid, I wish I could step on the thing that touched you.

I know someone who was touched by one of these things when she was small. I am the only person she has told. Fortunately for the thing that touched her he was already dead when I found out. Or maybe not so fortunate. A wise Man once said it would be better for someone who harmed one of His little ones to have a millstone hung around his neck and be cast into the sea.

(((((the little ones here)))))

mudpup

[mum as guest]

shock and dismay...for all of you who had such experiences.  Your honesty and perserverence is humbling.  Bless you.
Mud: you are the kind of parent parents should be and what we all aspire to.  Lucky wife, lucky daughter.
Love to everyone.

[vunil as guest]

JDM?  how are you?  What ended up happening with your Mom?

thinking about you !  Hoping things got resolves in a way that was comfortable for you.