Falling out with friends

[October]

In the last three days I have fallen out with my two best friends.  One will never know, because he is too busy. In the past I have told him when I am angry with him, but that just results in the anger being turned on me until I apologise so this time I haven't bothered telling him, because this is not about him.  It is about me deserving better.  

The other I cut off mid phone call tonight, and then unplugged my phone so she could not call back.  The reason is that I have no money and she has, relatively speaking, lots, and she keeps talking to me about what she is spending money on, and trying to get me to give her validation and emotional support.  I have told her in the past that I can talk to her about anything else, but not money, because I don't have any, and it is not an easy subject to listen to.  Since then she has gone on and on with the same kinds of conversations, occasionally laughingly saying I'm not supposed to talk to you about money, I know, but ... and then carrying on.

So, tonight I behaved very badly and disconnected the call at the point where she told me more about her finances, and laughed at the same time, again.

I then sent her an email asking her to respect my boundaries or else I cannot listen to her.  

I am dealing with a lot here, and really in need of support.  But I am pushing everyone away, one by one.  The only consolation I can find is that many - perhaps all    - of my friends seem to have very very N characteristics, and that my closing doors on them is a way of protecting myself from those N bits when they surface.

So, maybe it is a good thing.  I don't know.  Or maybe it is the depression fighting back.  It is pretty bad at present.  

[Stormchild]

(((((October)))))

It does hurt, I don't know any way to soften that because it does. I also can't tell you that throngs of wonderful people will quickly appear to fill the gaps, because that has not been my experience.

But I can tell you this: it is good to have peace. It is good to have

"A bower quiet for us, and a sleep 
Full of sweet dreams, and health, and quiet breathing . . . "

(Keats)

If people in your life refuse to hear you, refuse to treat you as you request when what you request is reasonable (and that is obviously true here), refuse to be good to you, then they are not your friends, no matter how they wish to label themselves.

It is OK for you to be good to yourself, and protect yourself, even if it means literally pulling the plug on the conversation.

Kind people attract Ns. And you are very very kind.

And people can have a large hefty helping of N traits without being wholly N... in that case, maybe losing friendships is the only thing that will motivate them to look at how they treat their friends.

So you can even frame it as a public service, dear October.

I wish you untroubled sleep tonight, 'full of sweet dreams, and health, and quiet breathing.' And peace without the loneliness that comes from finding yourself alone in the company of others...!

God bless and keep you.

[Guesting]

Hi October....  I don't think you behaved badly... you just enforced your boundaries.  You took care of yourself.

[October]

(((((October)))))

It does hurt, I don't know any way to soften that because it does. I also can't tell you that throngs of wonderful people will quickly appear to fill the gaps, because that has not been my experience.

I can't believe you would say such a horrible thing.  How could you!!!!

(Throws toys out of pram)

   

(Only kidding, Stormy dear.  Thanks for everything, and especially the verse.  Not as good as the last one of yours that I saw, though.    Now I really must go to beddiebies.  Tomorrow I will be mostly not answering my phone at all, in case it is my one and only remaining friend in the whole wide world. )

[Stormchild Guesting]

Regarding wonderful people...

They will appear. But most likely in ones and twos, with possibly long gaps in betweentimes. Dratted rationing...  

Meanwhile, save the phone lines for posting and PMing here... we value you and want you to be well and safe.

[October]

Regarding wonderful people...

They will appear. But most likely in ones and twos, with possibly long gaps in betweentimes. Dratted rationing...  

Hmm.  Do you think I should be waiting at the bus stop?  

(I suspect this is really about being abandoned without a safety net by my t for three weeks.  Well, 20 days, to be exact.  Now on day 5 out of 20, and have pushed away 2 friends, to stop them abandoning me as well, or perhaps in recognition of mirroring abandonment behaviour from them.  Not good, really.  Rather precarious.)

[bunny]

October,

That's a very astute insight about the reason you're pushing away these friends (so-called). These individuals sound pretty high maintenance. I would have probably ditched them long ago. At my age, I literally cannot waste even an hour on a selfish person. Time is precious to me. Anyway we are your friends and maybe we can substitute until some flesh-and-blood people come along. It may be sooner than you think.

bunny

[Anonymous]

Regarding wonderful people...

They will appear. But most likely in ones and twos, with possibly long gaps in betweentimes. Dratted rationing...  

Hmm.  Do you think I should be waiting at the bus stop?  

(I suspect this is really about being abandoned without a safety net by my t for three weeks.  Well, 20 days, to be exact.  Now on day 5 out of 20, and have pushed away 2 friends, to stop them abandoning me as well, or perhaps in recognition of mirroring abandonment behaviour from them.  Not good, really.  Rather precarious.)

I am the least materialistic person on the planet and can't stand when people talk about their acquisitions.

My true friends and loved ones are not like this and I'm happy for them if they can afford an extension, another baby, a holiday.  Most of the people I know are struggling with mortgages and just trying to make monthly payments.

I've been in horrific debt lately but I still value those that love me and I don't worry about anything financial???????????

[daylily]

At one point in my life, I had no money but was pretty much surrounded by rich people--not comfortably middle-class people, but trust-fund people.  I found it incredibly difficult to keep my mouth shut.

E.M. Forster wrote, "Independent thoughts are in nine cases out of ten the result of independent means."  Granted, that was written in 1912 or so, when the support systems that today allow individuals to attain a level of psychological "independent means" simply did not exist.  But though Forster's words are harsh, they still carry the sting of truth, even today.  Money does not represent stuff to me, it represents independence--the freedom to do what you want, when you want, where you want, without answering to anybody.

People who possess that independence do not understand how economic necessity circumscribes our lives.  I can't afford to have a nervous breakdown: I have a mortgage, an elderly mother who depends on me financially, and mediocre health insurance.  If I do not pay my bills, my life will fall apart--and not metaphorically.

October, I actually am very proud of you for doing what I've never quite been able to do myself, which is to enforce that particular boundary--the one in which I refuse to participate in the big lie about money.  If this person is your friend, she will understand that not only did she refuse to honor your specific request about your limitations, but she also rubbed your nose in those limitations.  If she wants to be your friend, she will come back to you and apologize.  If not, I'm sorry to say that it seems she is using you to bolster her own self-image.

Will wonderful people step in to fill the void in your life?  I don't know.  But I do know that you have to enforce the standard of how you demand to be treated, and let your relationships take the consequences.  I wish I could invite you out for a drink; I'd gladly buy.  But since that is not the case, please know that you have at least one person's admiration, support, and understanding.

Best,
daylily

[jophil]

Hi October - Money is used a tool of control by lots of people.
Your 'friend' who talked on and on about her finances after hearing that you were sensitive to that, showed no respect for you feelings and wishes.
Maybe we all need to review our 'friend inventory' on a regular basis and discard those who are abusing us. Friendship, like love is not supposed to hurt you.... Dump 'em and make some space for better people who are 'on your team'....Jophil.

[Denise]

October, you have been agood friend to me, and i know exactly what you are saying, most of my so called good friends have vanished since i had my breakdown, and truthfully none of them even know or have asked why, so thats so called friends for you, and as for the money side, with not working now, i am basically living hand to mouth, ive got no debts all bills get paid and theres always food in, but there is no money for anything else, i get told i should go out socialise again with friends etc, what with i ask myself, its my sons 18th in june and my daughters 21st in july plus my other sons 22nd, any bits of money that is spare is being saved 4 these things.
David, my ex as you have probably gathered, and my so called friend now is a bit like that were money is concerned, i dont think he realises what he says sometimes, the other week it was his daughters 18th birthday, so he takes his 3 daughters, his EX wife and himself out for a meal, to the cost of £300 that would feed me and my kids and my pets for a month, i know it was a special occasion, but thats just 1 example of the kind of things he does, maybe not deliberately rubbing mt nose in it, but he knows times are hard for me, so i know exactly how you feel, when the chips are down, it shows who your real friends are, and now i think ive only got 1 and a half true friends

[Anonymous]

Do you use msn at all, if you do you could pm me your addy and chat on there if you want?

Denise

[October]

October,

That's a very astute insight about the reason you're pushing away these friends (so-called). These individuals sound pretty high maintenance. I would have probably ditched them long ago. At my age, I literally cannot waste even an hour on a selfish person. Time is precious to me. Anyway we are your friends and maybe we can substitute until some flesh-and-blood people come along. It may be sooner than you think.

bunny

Funny enough, Bunny, when I am thinking about S and B (my friends) I think that very thing.  I think to myself, Bunny would be stronger than this, and would not let herself be treated this way.  

I think you are a role model for me.   I need a plastic wristband with 'what would Bunny do?' written on it.         (I hope nobody thinks this is irreligious.  Or sarcastic.    )

Now planning a nice little holiday away with C for a few days, to get through the next week or so.  I have had an apology by email from B this morning, but I need to think about things for a while before I reply.

[October]

I am the least materialistic person on the planet and can't stand when people talk about their acquisitions.

Wow.  How fantastic to meet the least materialistic person on the planet.  I am truly honoured.  I doubt if I would even make the top billion least materialistic people, given my attachment to my telly, fridge, video player and DVD, computer, not to mention hot and cold water and a supermarket less than 2 miles away.    And I would love to buy another telly, for my bedroom, if I could.  I won't deny that.  Or a CD player, because I don't have one of my own.  (I borrow C's.)

I don't mind people telling me what they have, or even what they have bought.  I mind them telling me what they have paid for it, as if it matters.  It relates to knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing.

[October]

October, I actually am very proud of you for doing what I've never quite been able to do myself, which is to enforce that particular boundary--the one in which I refuse to participate in the big lie about money.  

Best,
daylily

Thanks, daylily.  B has apologised this morning by email, and promised not to talk about money again.  She is very sorry that she has hurt me.

I have to acknowledge that it is partly my fault - or maybe responsibility would be a better word - for not being more assertive in standing up for myself.  Which is not to blame the victim for the crime, but to acknowledge that I find it hard to maintain proper boundaries, because in my family there is no such thing as a boundary between any of us.  Others can do what they like, when they like, and I find it hard to even complain, let alone say an emphatic no.  Not good.

So this is good practise for me.  A start, perhaps.

As for going for a drink with me, I would  hope that any friend who did so would understand that sometimes they get the round in, and, equally I hope, sometimes I do.  In world terms I am extremely rich, and live in a very privileged country.  Where else could I be 5 years without the ability to work, and yet still retain my own home, and remain relatively independent?