When my N father died -

[jophil]

I was living in a town 65 miles north. He was taken into the hospital because he had heart problems from smoking cigarettes for 50 years.
He had open heart surgery six years before and had continued to smoke after his surgery. His body started to quit and I saw him in a coma at about 7 pm. Eventually I drove home and at about 11pm my brother called and told me that he had died. I recall that I felt absolutely NO grief at that moment. All I remember is thinking that I will now have to make the drive down to his funeral - it was just a huge inconvenience to take a day off. Many times I have been somewhat curious and even disturbed about my lack of emotion when he died.  
I really hated what he did to us kids - his callous NPD ways, the cruel punishment and sneering humiliations day after day. My mother is still alive and now is acting like Deputy NPD. I wonder how I will feel and act when she joins him down there.
 
John.

[Anonymous]

Jophil,

I was the same when my N-mother died.  She had cancer and was 98 years old.  The doctors told me she couldn't last more than two months.  She died seven months later.  Three months before she died she called me and tore into me for twenty minutes.  I thought she had become psychotic.  She thought she had plugged up her toilet in the assisted care facility where she was living and the company was going to charge her thousands of dollars to fix it.  She also told me that the office had taken over her telephone and she could no longer use it.  I asked her whose phone she was using to call me.  That set her off even more and she screamed that I was going to live a life of hell.  She went on and on.  Finally she ended the call and I immediately called the nurse at the facility and told her what happened.  

The nurse immediately went up to her room.  She phoned me a few minutes later and told me my mother was in bed and sound asleep.

I felt nothing when she died.  She did everything she could to make my life miserable and distance was the only way I could keep it to a minimum.  The last ten years of her life, I told her as little as possible about my life.  She told stories to the rest of the family and I didn't find out about most of them until after she was gone.  

No, I did not mourn her passing.  I think that if she had been a loving mother instead being a critical, manipulative, lying b------tch I would have missed her terribly and would have had something to mourn.  Instead I think I was relieved that I would no longer have to wonder what the next antic would be.  I no longer have to figure out how I am going to protect myself.

[Anonymous]

Many times I have been somewhat curious and even disturbed about my lack of emotion when he died.

Maybe you were relieved. I can't imagine mourning this nasty person. I'd be thanking God for my liberation. I assume you will feel similarly toward your mother. These people reap what they sow. It's not your job to feel regret about their passing. They have to earn that.

bunny

[mudpuppy]

It's not your job to feel regret about their passing. They have to earn that.

Right on the money, bunny.

mud

[jophil]

My father was a skilled 'depriver' who went out of his way to make sure that those whom he 'controlled' never got what they wanted.
Have you ever seen a person play that somewhat cruel game with a dog and a piece of food. The person stands in front of the animal and offers the food to the dog . Just when the dog jumps up to take the morsel , the person lifts their hand up and pulls the food away. The game repeats until the animal gets crazy with frustration or slinks off in unsatisfied resignation.
If you substitute love, acceptance, approval and validation for the food and me for the dog -- well you get the picture .

I am having a very bad couple of days. Some kind of crisis is looming .
Thanks for listening and being there..
John.

[mum]

((((Jophil)))))), I hope the crisis does not come to pass....or you weather it well.  Hang in there.  Let us know if we can help.

Have you ever seen a person play that somewhat cruel game with a dog and a piece of food.
If you substitute love, acceptance, approval and validation for the food and me for the dog -- well you get the picture .

yes, I see this with regularity.  This is what my ex does to our children.

[mudpuppy]

Jeez Louise what a moron I am.    

The following was supposed to be on this thread but got posted to Jophil's old one somehow. Sorry guys.

Hi Jophil,

Sorry to hear its getting tough. This stuff ebbs and flows. Sounds like you're at high tide right now and the waters lapping at your chin.  

How long have you known your father was an N? How far along in the process of digesting just what all this means to you and your family are
you?
Hope the crisis you sense turns out to be a chance for healing instead.

mudpup
 

Lets see you top that one GFN.

mud

[Anonymous]

Jophil,

We'll be here.

bunny

[jophil]

Thanks for your strong shoulders, team. I am realising that the damage runs deep and is affecting my sense of entitlement . I somehow feel like a child in an adult body.Life seems to be one long frustrating struggle with more pain than reward. However I am aware that I am treating myself in the same way that my parents treated me. Weird ain't it? You would think that I would do exactly the opposite and treat myself with kindness and care.
I have a friend who is a counselor and she is the only person who does not parrot that crap about my parents "doing the best that they could".
'They' did not do the best that they could , they pursued their own needs and wants and in so doing abused their children who were recruited to play their games of seeking social and peer approval by looking like a perfect family - not a hair out of place. Geez I am sick of all the S**T.

Talk to you all later, gotta go see the Doc.
John.

[Brigid]

John,

Many times I have been somewhat curious and even disturbed about my lack of emotion when he died.

I completely understand this.  My n father died about 5 1/2 years ago and I felt absolutely nothing.  I could not shed a tear or feel an ounce of emotion at his passing.  All I could feel was relief that I wouldn't have to deal with him anymore (although at the time we had not seen or spoken to each other for 2 years).  I remember the minister who was doing the funeral service asking me for a favorite memory of my father that he could mention during the service.  I couldn't think of anything--not one good memory in 50 years.  How sad is that?  But many times since then, I have felt guilt or that there was something seriously wrong with me because I could not feeling anything at his passing.  I could only admit that to a handful of people because I was embarrassed that I didn't love my father.  Most people don't understand that.

My mother died in early January after being ill with Alzheimer's for 5+ years.  I was slightly more sad at her passing, but certainly not devastated. I don't think she ever loved me any more than he did, but she just wasn't as nasty about it.  Again, I felt mostly relief that she was finally gone and I would no longer have to feel guilty for not coming to visit her (she lived 350 miles from me).

I can't remember if you are currently in therapy, but if not, I would recommend it for the struggles you are having right now.  I am finding it very helpful as I try to heal those festering wounds of my childhood.

God bless,

Brigid

[jophil]

Hi Brigit, and thanks for your reply. Even though your mother is dead and mine is still alive, I understand your lack of emotion when she passed away. I really believe that I will feel the same way when my mother goes.

I read someplace recently about the concept of "active abuser" plus "passive abuser" as parents . An N as parent is certainly an "active abuser" and their spouse is then the "passive abuser" because she does little, if anything, to stop the abuse and thereby enables the abuser. Maybe,deep down, we hold the passive abuser almost as accountable as the N and that may be why we have little positive feeling for our mothers. I guess that we do not value adults who just looked the other way and pretended that it was not happening or re-labeled it as "strict" discipline. It was ABUSE and it was wrong and it happened to us and our mothers made themselves deaf dumb and blind and tried to pretend to protect their own existense at our expense.

I am getting madder just writing this.

John.

[Brigid]

John,
In my home my father was just as verbally abusive to my mother as he was to me.  My mother was such a weak person that she would not stand up to him and therefore enabled his behavior.  Once I became old enough and strong enough to stick up for myself, I also felt compelled to stand up to him on her behalf as well.  But she always ended up siding with him against me even tho I was trying to protect her.  I think this is what destroyed the relationship between she and I.  After he died, all I heard from her was how much she missed him and what a wonderful guy he was, etc., etc.  It always sickened me to listen to it and eventually I stopped calling her.

Please get some help in dealing with your anger.  Don't let it eat you up.  That is allowing him to abuse you from the grave and you don't need that.  There is nothing you can do to change what happened, but you can control how you deal with it now.  I wish you well.

Hugs,

Brigid

[bunny as guest]

John,

I believe the enabler who does not protect the children from the acting-out abuser is equally responsible. They don't get off the hook by being the passive one. Your anger is legitimate. Like Brigid, I hope you can get into therapy to process it appropriately.

{{{ John }}}

bunny

[Simply Guest2]

Hi jophil.
I wonder why this is coming out now.  It didn't sound as if your father's death was recent.  Is it the anniversary?  Are you the same age now?  Is your mom ill?  Did someone say something?  Maybe it would be enlightening to know why it is weighing on your mind right now.

I do not find it unusual that you do not mourn your dad.  After all he did, why would you expect to feel anything but relief!  Just as the parental love you did not receive is not automatic, the grief at the death of a parent is not automatic either.  There has to be something real there.  You could not fake it.

My dad died.  I did not feel bad about his death, except that it was a miserable ordeal in the intensive care.   And I found out a lot about him at the funeral.  In fact I met his long time girlfriend and her son and they were able to tel me stories about how great and fun and loving and unselfish he was, as I wondered if we were talking about the right person!  Many times I just wanted to slap them.

The thing that blindsided me was the anger that was released.  I started being more and more stressed, it just trickled out, and finally I really lost it.  I started to remember things I had completely forgotten.  I got a therapist and got on medication just to keep my life together.  I turned into a tense person who cried her eyes out at night.  In my depressed state I made life-changing decisions which were possibly big mistakes.

So just look out for this and get support lined up beforehand, in case this is what is happening to you.  My dad has been dead for 12 years and only now am I starting to heal, not from his death, from his life.

Simply Guest2

[menow]

Jophil,
I am really glad you started this thread. My parents are still young and "full of life", unfortunately for them and me. They are a negative force in this world. By my choice, I have spoken to them 3 times in the last 12 years. I have often thought and wondered how I would feel if they died, if there were things left unsaid that I would regret. I also still have a little undying hope that they will call me one day and apologize for everything they have done. Not going to happen.

I have to say, I have fantasied of my sister calling and saying they died together in a car accident. What a relief!  Not to have to deal with that situation at all, and the guilt and thought, there is something I could do to still do to change it. Ugh! There is nothing, I know, but my child's hope is hard to curb. Anyway, if they died, it would just finally put my mind at rest, that there is NOTHING I can do.

Society puts soooo much sh*& on blood family. One of my spiritual teachers says... There is no obligation to stay in touch with your college roommate for life, so why all the pressure to stay in touch with the people who birthed you. A child is a gift, good parenting is a gift to the child... the gift is gotten.... now lets move on. Unless, they are truly friends and beneficial to each ones life. Otherwise move on.

I dont understand why parents get soooo many special exemptions. do they get special exemptions!!!!!

My parents are not allowed to be in my life, unless they treat me with respect. For now, that still hasnt happened and they are not in my life. PERIOD.

I am still working on undoing the damage they have done, but at least they are not allowed to cause anymore damage in my adult life.  

Thanks Jophil.

Menow