Author Topic: new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help  (Read 4675 times)

KateW

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new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help
« on: November 28, 2003, 09:42:28 PM »
cry: I have been struggling with my mom my whole life with her guilt trips. I live two hours away and am a married professional with a busy schedule. My mom constantly complains that she doesn't see me enough and when I do visit it's never long enough, how can I be leaving already, etc. She becomes withdrawn and/or angry whenever I don't do what she wants. She's only happy if I am there at her every whim doing what SHE wants. My needs or that of mine and my husband are never considered. It all came to a head when my dad (divorced from my mother for 20 years) decided to come visit me and my husband for Christmas this year. He lives in Australia, and I never get to see him at Xmas. I broke the news to my mom and she said all kinds of horrible things, such as "you're choosing your dad over us" ("us including my narcissist sister and family, my mom and grandmother) and she feels that since I have a relationship with  my dad I'm "condoning" all the horrible things "he did" to her. I told her that I was happy that I have a good relationship with my dad, and that as my mom she should be happy for me. No response, just that I was hurting HER feelings. I became so angry and frustrated I called her back and told her that I felt that for my own mental sanity, I was not going to be able to come up for THanksgiving this year to visit, due to her attitide and that of my sister, who is always so rude and moody that my husband refuses to go visit her. It's interesting because my dad is so nice about my mom - the only thing bad he will say is she and her family and famous for laying guilt trips. HELP - I feel guilty like I am letting her down. I even sent her a nice letter to explain how I was feeling but she took it all wrong and twisted everything I said. She even brought up that I was creating a "family rift" and that we had "other problems", such as the fact that she wanted me to come visit her at a beach house that is a 4 hour drive for me this summer and I wouldn't come, suggesting we meet somewhere more accessible to both of us. I told her that she wasn't considering my feelings and only cared about what was convenient for her. I had invited her to visit my husband and I the week before Christmas so we could still see eachother and she said that she would come if I could fit her into my "busy social calendar" . I asked her what she meant by that and she said that in my letter I implied that the invitiation wasn't really open! All I said was, "how about you come for a visit before Christmas, maybe the weekend of the 20th would work for you? She took that to mean I wasn't really inviting her! SHe said she would have to come because my present is "too big to send". She is being just horrible. Help I need advice.

bunny

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new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2003, 09:52:07 PM »
My advice: You are doing all the right things already. You are standing up to her. You aren't caving in to her. You are doing what you need to do, whether or not she approves. This is incredibly great! I'm not sure you realize how advanced you are. Most people with N parents (including me) cave in to their parents all the time. KEEP IT UP!!!!  :lol:

P.S. Yes, your mom is a narcissist, and yes, she uses guilt trips. Don't feel guilty, you did nothing wrong!

KateW

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thanks Bunny - you don't know how much you've helped me!
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2003, 10:06:32 PM »
:) Wow - so I'm not horrible and crazy after all =) After this whole thing happened I started looking on the Internet to see if my mom has a personality disorder and Narcissist kept coming up. This is the first time I've ever stood up to her - I've always tried to do what she wants.  It helped so much for you to confirm she IS a narcissist. I thougt maybe I was just a bad daughter! Thank you so much for your kind words... I feel like maybe I can get through this after all. What's interesting is what I've read about N children feeling like they never make the right decision and can't be confident in their own judgements. That is so me.. what about you?

Nancy Drew

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KateW's Mom is MY Mom!
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2003, 11:01:08 AM »
I am also new (this week) Holidays always seem to be a problem with phrases like: "Well, you didn't really INVITE me..you only said.." 2 weeks ago, my daughter had a baby; and I took time off from my job to correspond with the birth, and babysitting my daughter's 2 yr. old baby, etc..My mother kept saying things like: "Your cousin (hardly knows my daughter) said that if you can't bring me up to their apt. by Wed., SHE will!" Trying to protect my daughter, mentioning that she needed time to recuperate, etc.and had quite a bit of her husband's fam. for company already (when the baby was between 2-3 days old) She KEPT insisting.  I would NOT give in, as I was that concerned for my daughter, having been there as she gave birth.  I am astounded that a woman cannot have consideration for her granddaughter, who just gave birth.  The only important thing was that SHE go to see that baby!.  I brought her computer print-out pics afte 2-3 days, and she said "I don't want to see PICTURES of the baby!! I want to see the baby!" I made her wait till the baby was a week old...but in the meantime, I had to listen to all her complaints and jealousy such as: "I'll bet the great-grandmother on her husband's side has been there!" I called the hospital, and Mandy's friend Sue answered!!!' I did NOT give in...but it was shameful for an 84 year old woman, who just about did everything but stomp her feet over this!  How can someone have NO consideration for the other person? I feel somewhat bad because she is elderly, but she has ALWAYS been like this!!
  :x

bunny

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new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2003, 11:18:12 AM »
KateW,
I think my judgments are right but I still feel horribly guilty. It's like being brainwashed.

bunny

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new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2003, 11:20:19 AM »
Nancy Drew,

Your mother is the limit. When someone behaves as outrageously as she does, I think it makes it a bit easier to deny them. I am familiar with elderly, spoiled-brat women and they have to be treated firmly. You did the right thing. She has no "right" to see a baby, no matter whose it is.

PS

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new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2003, 03:56:49 PM »
Kate,
As I'm sure many of us feel, you could have been writing about my mother.  I thought mine topped the Ncake when she got p***** off with me when I went home (she lives in a rural area in another Province) for my cousin's funeral.  She was in such a snit that my sister and I had gone home for the funeral instead of specifically to see her that she actually refused to go to the funeral.  Now that's the part about what the parent does, but the biggest piece of this is what it does to us as adult children of N parents.  Initially, I felt angry, frustrated and then sad that she was so shallow in her ability to give to ANYONE.  Then I have to remind my self that the N feels NO EMPATHY.   In other words, no ability to understand how ANYONE else might be feeling about a situation and then the next step, to care how they feel enough to offer support or understanding.  We must NEVER wait for this to be offered under ANY circumstances - and even if at first it appears that way, don't trust it because it's usually a set up.

Sounds dismal doesn't it?  But guilt is the leverage behind the control for the N parent.  Their first priority is to have their needs satisfied so they NEVER have to look at the pain of their own sense of non-existence.  When there is any kind is dent in the armor they immediately go to repair the threat.  In order to repair (like when you express you want to see your father) the N pulls out the most effective control mechanism and does what ever is necessary to get you back in line.  Once you have succumbed, they have reestablished the armor and you have served the function.  Then you're the good girl for awhile, just up to the point where you look for permission to have any need met that the N takes as a signal that they're not solidly front and centre.

In my own life, I know that the stronger I am, the better I feel about my right as a human being to take care of myself, the less my N mother can wipe me out.  At 87, she recently broke her arm and shattered her image of this capable, independent, spunky woman.  She demanded a huge amount of attention and my sisters and I gave what we were willing which was never enough and never appreciated.  Guilt still gets a grip on me at times but I'm quicker to recognize it and less inclined to allow it to motivate what I do or don't do for my mother.  

You are very much on the right track in identifying these things that you mother does to try and pull you in to "use you to repair the dents in her armor".  You absolutely have the right to a relationship with your father and do not need her permission to do so.  If she had the ability to care for you she's support you in that.  Also, remind yourself, often, that you have the right to be happy and to spend time around people who support and love you.  Your barometer is always your FEELINGS.  As children of N parents we have been trained to disregard and deny our feelings because they have been inconvenient and uncomfortable for the parent.  In the beginning of dealing with all of this the most difficult task, at times, is to even know what we are feeling.  

I wish you all the best, hope you have or had a nice time with you father and that you use this "board" as support and to vent when necessary!

pat

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new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2003, 06:11:24 PM »
Pat, That really sounds like my mom - I could see her acting that way about a funeral. I'm so sorry for what you have to go through as well. It sounds like you are really dealing with it well though. My mom gets so upset if she is not the center of attention. I agree it is so hard to know what we are feeling. When telling her I wasn't coming for Thanksgiving, I felt like I had to make that decision but I was still being a bad person for not coming. My husband fully supports me which is great, but I am still struggling. Just today my mom left a message on my voice mail saying that they had a "pathetic" Thansgiving. and that it was mostly just her and my grandmother, because my sister was only there part of the time. Again, another way to lay on the guilt trip.

It's interesting what they do when they get sick. My mother was diagnosed with cancer two years ago and has managed to beat it. Of course, she was sure she was going to die. When I told her to let me know if there was anything I could do to help, she said "Like there's anything you can do from where you're at" (I'm two hours away). Three years ago we decided we weren't coming up for Christmas because we had to be back at work the day after, and I got a sobbing message from my mom that we had to come up because she was sure it was going to be her "last Christmas" (note - I was on my way back from visiting her when I got this message) I explained that we just weren't going to be able to make it, that we already had made our plans, she sobbed and hung up.

Just recently she wanted to come visit us and I told her the next few weekends were booked up, so we'd have to wait a few weeks. She hung up on me! What am I supposed to do when my husband can't stand having her around? He's my first priority.

Last time I saw her she told me my hair was too long. I said I like it. My husband said, it's in style right now. Her reply was "celebrities can get away with it - they seem to break all the rules." She can't ever say I look nice. There's always something wrong. I met my mom and my aunt for lunch a couple of months ago and my aunt said I looked pretty. Mom's reply was "don't I look pretty?"

Sorry for my rambling. I am just recalling all these things and getting really angry! But at least I know what she has, and I'm learning how to deal with it.

Nancy, good for you in standing up to your mom. I know how hard it is but you did the right thing. I agree with you in that they have absolutely no consideration for the other person. My mom absolutely does not care that it's important for me to be around my dad, I'm just choosing him over her.

KateW

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That was actually KateW on the last post as Guest whoops
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2003, 08:03:17 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous
Pat, That really sounds like my mom - I could see her acting that way about a funeral. I'm so sorry for what you have to go through as well. It sounds like you are really dealing with it well though. My mom gets so upset if she is not the center of attention. I agree it is so hard to know what we are feeling. When telling her I wasn't coming for Thanksgiving, I felt like I had to make that decision but I was still being a bad person for not coming. My husband fully supports me which is great, but I am still struggling. Just today my mom left a message on my voice mail saying that they had a "pathetic" Thansgiving. and that it was mostly just her and my grandmother, because my sister was only there part of the time. Again, another way to lay on the guilt trip.

It's interesting what they do when they get sick. My mother was diagnosed with cancer two years ago and has managed to beat it. Of course, she was sure she was going to die. When I told her to let me know if there was anything I could do to help, she said "Like there's anything you can do from where you're at" (I'm two hours away). Three years ago we decided we weren't coming up for Christmas because we had to be back at work the day after, and I got a sobbing message from my mom that we had to come up because she was sure it was going to be her "last Christmas" (note - I was on my way back from visiting her when I got this message) I explained that we just weren't going to be able to make it, that we already had made our plans, she sobbed and hung up.

Just recently she wanted to come visit us and I told her the next few weekends were booked up, so we'd have to wait a few weeks. She hung up on me! What am I supposed to do when my husband can't stand having her around? He's my first priority.

Last time I saw her she told me my hair was too long. I said I like it. My husband said, it's in style right now. Her reply was "celebrities can get away with it - they seem to break all the rules." She can't ever say I look nice. There's always something wrong. I met my mom and my aunt for lunch a couple of months ago and my aunt said I looked pretty. Mom's reply was "don't I look pretty?"

Sorry for my rambling. I am just recalling all these things and getting really angry! But at least I know what she has, and I'm learning how to deal with it.

Nancy, good for you in standing up to your mom. I know how hard it is but you did the right thing. I agree with you in that they have absolutely no consideration for the other person. My mom absolutely does not care that it's important for me to be around my dad, I'm just choosing him over her.

PS

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new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2003, 08:06:01 PM »
I had to laugh a little when your mom said your hair was too long! They'll do anything to jump the ladder to feel superior.  If you look good it somehow means that they don't and an attack is imminent.  The situation I was telling about reganding the funeral resulted in my mom saying "who cuts your hair now?" When I told her (forgot that there would be a reason for this question) she said , "well, it's chunky and he doesn't know how to taper hair!"  

The Christmas thing is hard, I know.  If you've had a Christmas without her before you'll know how pleasant it can be without all the stress created by having to be on guard all the time.  All difficult transitions require support and understanding.  I hope you have that.  The more you pull away the more desperate her actions will be for awhile.  

One thing you might want to research a bit so that you can get a handle on how your reactions will affect you is  what happened as you tried to separate ind individuate.  When I understood this process and how much it didn't occur as it should in childhood, I was much kinder to myself as I learned to identify and take care of my own needs.  Nina Brown who wrote one of the great survival books for adult children of N parents (CHILDREN OF THE SELF-ABSORBED), says, "the parent could only approve of you to the extent that you met their self-perception and needs, and you were not considered to be separate and distict from them........the parental inability to consider the child as worthwhile, loveable, a separate person produced a self-perception in the child that they are fatally flawed and that everyone can see the flaws."

One of the reasons that this is such a great book is that the last half is strategies on how to create distance and self-protection from the N parent.

All the best..Pat

KateW

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new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2003, 09:12:32 PM »
Pat,

Thanks for your wise words. I will definitely check that book out. Wow -  our moms sound very simliar. I am blessed to have a husband who fully supports me in this. I think he's wondering what took me so long!

Lizbeth

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new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help
« Reply #11 on: December 01, 2003, 02:40:59 PM »
My father is this way.  Thinks he has the right to tell me what he does or does not like about my appearance, even though I haven't asked.  Told me he didn't like my hair when I visited him in Virginia in August.  Since then, I have taken off  30 lb (have more to go).  I sent him pictures of my sister, husband and I on a trip we took to Cancun last month.  When I called him for Thanksgiving, asked if he had received the pictures, he said yes.  Told him that I had lost 30 lbs.  His comment:  You can't tell from those pictures."   Even being heavy, I know I looked nice in the pictures.  But, instead of praising me for losing the weight, this is the comment I get.  And the reason I have a weight problem was my crazy mother, his wife, forcing me to stay up until 2 AM when I was little refusing to eat something or other on my plate.  Life long bulemia just conquered.  This is the support I get from my father.  I should have said, well at least my liver isn't about to explode from drinking the past 50+ years.  No, I just made some lame excuse and got off the phone.  It bothered me all day.  My husband said that my father just has to say something derogatory to make himself feel better about that fact that he's screwed up his health and his life so much.  My son said he would have been darned lucky to look as young as I do at 50, even with excess weight.  Thankfully that cheered me up.  Damn them both (parents).

Quote from: Anonymous

Last time I saw her she told me my hair was too long. I said I like it. My husband said, it's in style right now. Her reply was "celebrities can get away with it - they seem to break all the rules." She can't ever say I look nice. There's always something wrong. I met my mom and my aunt for lunch a couple of months ago and my aunt said I looked pretty. Mom's reply was "don't I look pretty?"

gwyneveyre

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new to this - I think my mom is a narcissist - help
« Reply #12 on: December 04, 2003, 08:33:01 PM »
Wow - I am so glad to have found this message board.  I recently began seeing a therapist (again), and last night she said my mom has a narcissistic personality.  I looked it up on the web and have found tons of stuff that I completely recognize and relate to.  I began seeing this therapist because of my inability to make decisions and constantly second-guessing myself (in one of these messages it describes this as common for children of narcissists).  There are so many outrageous stories I could recount about my mother's incredibly selfish behavior.  Here's one:  when she and my step-dad got divorced, she expected me to never have any contact with him again, despite the fact that he had been in my life for 15 years (from the age of 13).  She completely cut off contact with me because I refused to cut him out of my life 100%.  After about a year of this, I began the process of gradually coaxing her to re-establish contact with me.   It's been several years since then, and my therapist has given me the assignment of figuring out a realistic vision for my relationship with my mother that includes PROTECTING MYSELF FROM HER.