breaches....of conduct; shame; guilt in context of narcissism

[bunny]

However many times you tell us that you're communicating "outside the box," nothing will really happen. People will just continue to question what the h. you're talking about. We know you're outside the box. But we can't get to where you are. And we probably won't make herculean efforts because you haven't made the effort. It's a two-way street.

bunny

[bliz]

DO you want to heal?

[daylily]

Dear Gnostic,

Please forgive me for saying this, but I have read through this thread, and I have to wonder if this is the best place for you.  Since you don't seem to be willing to say clearly what your concerns are, or why you've started posting, and since you seem to have either problems with, or objections to, linear thought, then perhaps you yourself are having trouble forming a coherent narrative out of your anxieties, memories, experiences, etc.  If that is so, you may be depressed or your thought process may be affected by some physical or mental health issue that is well beyond this board's capacity to help you with.  If you are trying to write poetry, there are other places on the internet where you can share it freely.

Please, if this board can't be of help to you because you can't or won't communicate in a way that will allow help to be given, find someone with whom you can talk.  Otherwise, if you are doing this just to jerk our individual and collective chains, you are abusing the kindness, acceptance, and concern that are being offered to you.  That, to say the least, is not very nice.

I wish you well.

Best,
daylily

[d'smom]

you write:
OH ANOTHER ISSUE
DID I MENTION THAT I AM A VERY BRIGHT CHIMP
WHO IS AFRAID OF HUMANS



i think this is one of the more honest things you have said, i can certainly undertand this.

ive also spent a lot of time on lists for people with schizophrenia and also mpd.  i am used to people thinking 'outside the box'.  i think you can start to open up to the people here. they are kind and understanding. i do think it seems you hide behind free verse as a way to say things without really accessing your emotoins though.  

it would help to know your intent. do you just want to express yourself. do you want to get info etc. it would help us to particpate with you if you continued to open up.

[d'smom]

however i agree with daylily that if you -dont- want to open up or seem to keep being obscure for no apparent reason - the people here may quickly lose interest becuase weve -all- been burned.

[Portia]

Hello Gnostic. You could always start a blog (but that seems such a lonely activity to me); or you could ask some straightforward questions? To allow some sense of helpfullness? Or to umm create an ectoplasmic-like gooey relationship feeling. It can work if you're willing to go with it, I feeeel. Sometimes. Just for the joy of letting go! If that's possible. Did you see the Ramble thread? So upsetting it was. Apparently. (What was so BAD about it anyways?)

AS WITNESSED AS TO THE DIRE CONDITION OF HUMAN SOCIETY
AND ITS DESTRUCTIVNESS...
ACTUALLY THO I AM AN ALIEN WHO IS CLOAKED AS A CHIMP

 

If you send me a PM I will post you (Germany, Austria?) this, below. The book that is. Yes I will. Are you registered yet? I'll send it to a post restante address. You'll hate it or not. Maybe you've read it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/074756695X/qid=1124403527/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/026-9374821-0127605

[dogbit]

Good bye....the integrity of this discussion board is lost to me.  Why does anyone respond to someone who can only communicate in cynical, cryptic language.  It is the same old, same old of a neurotic trying to control and our attempts to revive the human who might have been.  Best wishes.

[vunil]

Wow, dogbit, you are so right.

It's kind of interesting to watch us.  Hmmm.....

[bliz]

I agree with dogbit but was willing to give nostic a try if he/she was really wanting to get better.

[Portia]

Oh this is so sad, dismissive of another human being it feels to me. It’s words on a message board. It won’t kill anyone. Maybe it might just *help* someone to feel less alone? Maybe it won’t? Maybe it’s just an outlet for some expression of being human?

So if it’s different we should step on it, destroy it, ostracise it? Like a bug? (I can’t take it when people just step on bugs just because they exist. Like some weird fear is triggered by the sight of something slightly alien. Know what I mean?)

Okay maybe I’m too willing to go on. What does that mean? Too willing to communicate? Communicate in an off-beat way? Why not?

What’s so bad or so wrong or so offensive about it all?

Hang on. What’s going on here?

One poster posts his (or her) thoughts in a non-standard manner and the whole board falls apart, or is brought into question? Why?

No-one has to reply to Gnostic/Cosmic. We choose to respond. We can choose to ignore the posts.

I choose to engage occasionally in a non-standard manner. Is there a problem?

The fact that Gnostic is posting is an expression of wishing to communicate in some way. That surely is an expression of having some hope. Those with no wish to live and share, don’t bother. I don’t think Gnostic is trying to control. I feel it’s more like crying in the rain. Just my thoughts.

Giving someone a try is a good intention. Whether someone is willing to help themselves or get better depends on their perception of what their ‘problem’ is and what the 'solutions' might be. Like, life is a disease cured by death. I think this some of the time. But death isn’t a realistic ‘option’ because to me it’s nothing, and life is therefore more interesting. No matter how destructive and inhumane humans are. And they are, the arms trade wouldn’t be the biggest world ‘industry’ if otherwise.

When someone doesn’t respond in the way we might want them to, it doesn’t mean that they are *wrong*. It means our expectations might be frustrated. Is that a problem or an opportunity?

No-one has to respond here. I just did because I had a few buttons pushed. Correction: I allowed my buttons to be pushed! *sigh*. I’m drawn to defending the underdog, the victim, those with unclear voices. Not that you are an underdog, Gnostic. Just different.

The K-Pax book is pretty light-hearted and spirit-raising. For a depressing version, Margaret Atwood’s ‘Oryx and Crake’ is downright gloomy about the future of humans. Take your pick!

Best wishes all. I mean no harm. P

[Sela]

Here's my two cents:

I've tried to communicate with you ...gnostic/cosmic/joe.....a few times on this board.  I do find it takes me extra effort and time to try to understand what you write...and I sometimes feel kinda stupid for not getting it....or getting it wrong...or not knowing if I'm getting it or getting it wrong???

Maybe other people feel that way too but rather than say so..they feel angry.....and want to  know why you won't communicate ...within the box...in a linear way...so it's easier to get....or even to get wrong???  It might be frustration that mostly being expressed to you, rather than repulsion about you.

Your style is hard to understand, for me.  I would rather speak clearly and simply.  That's me.....some of the time and....what I like....what I would like from most people..most of the time.  Ofcourse, I can't have what I like or would like allllllllllllllllll of the time can I???  That would be a silly desire.  Plus.......you have a right to speak outside of the box if you wish.  No one can decide that for you.  And......if you choose to write and speak in an out of the box manner....it's just as Portia pointed out......it's our choice to respond or not to read/respond.  So much is a choice eh??

I'm still interested in trying to communicate with you, Joe, but.....one thing I gotta say.......it urks me when I bother and there is no response.  I feel like I've been yoddling off into oblivion...if you know what I mean?  So.....that's still myyyyyy problem.  Ofcourse....you have no obligation to respond.....or maybe nothing to say in response......or maybe you just don't feel like responding......or any number of reasons for not responding.    That is your choice and up to you.  IIIIIIIIIIIIIi need to remind myself of that....more often.  Ofcourse, it is polite to respond when others address you or your posts, and I have such a problem with rudeness.  No worries.  My problem there too.  My definition of polite/rude isn't the be all.

As to you continuing on the line......the N-line I assume......because of your upbringing/environment....experiences......etc...I would like to suggest to you that you are only a certain percentage influenced by your upbringing/environment/experiences.  I like to think     50%......but......that's my choice.  The rest....comes from within you.....from what you are.....from who you are.....from yourself.....from you.  I really believe this.   This is why some people can come from very bad places and move on to very good places and flourish in life.  It is why some can withstand horrible circumstances and move past them and live well .....while others are crushed and just exist during and after.  It is something in us....something we can grasp and hold onto.....that makes us what we are....our individual traits....our idiosyncracies.....our bits and pieces...that we can allow to have 50% influence on our entire situation....

not just where we are and when....but who.

It is you who can decide how to react to your environment.....especially now that you are an adult.  No longer does your environment/experience/s have to have this unshakable hold
on who you are.  You can shake it off....strip it off....pick pieces of it off.......until...it no longer is much of an influence at all.  I believe this is a choice.....and maybe my off=line definition of healing.

It's my alien peotry.  My abstract thought for now.  So I want to encourage you that you too can choose to hold onto your individual-ness.....your stuff that makes you feel alien.....because it might just be the best stuff you have.  It might be exactly what stops you from carrying on down the line...the effects of your experiences/environment.  It might be what keeps you from being linear and from wanting to be linear.  That's ok.  There's no law that says you have to be linear, is there?  You don't have to fit into the box.  Maybe fighting that whole idea is your way of healing???  Your way of not carrying things on??  Your way of being different???

  Sela

[gnosticWAStongINchk]

Well u c … what fascinates me about humans if in their social  format, something is said as if it is so even if it isn’t that it builds  as if it is actually so… and then I am fascinated to watch how it can keep acting as its observations are the actual state and even so obvious J

Such as bunny with:
However many times you tell us that you're communicating "outside the box," nothing will really happen.         Xx
I am fascinated by such as if all statements … I see it so oftern on news and with politicians etc too
..now for instance how many might think to respond to bunny about here absolutist  as if knowing what it is outside of the box and if NOTHING WILL REALLY HAPPEN……………

it can really be a bit of an overload the semantic assumptions J
hmmm and the different kind of different assumptions if not presumptions as they might relate to narcissistic factors , aggressive factors and perfectionsist factors or combinations thereof

and with daylily I would beg to differ that I have not ever clearly said what are my concerns…
but I find in tracking such down, there would be just more and more and even after clearly making
a point and as if it is understood, I am fascinated too…how then it can come on hotter and heavier
despite when some say they got the point J

and someway d’s mom thinks I was being honest when I said I was a chimp…
actually I am not J

and as to d’s mom  that I can start to open up…that is assuming that there was no opening up? J
and a reminder that I am probably not schizophrenic but idiosyncratic with a tad of schizotypal J
and tis ok if “the people here” whatever that entity might be lose interest…
but actually I don’t think there is such an entity …of such a scale and inclusion…

another interesting as if absolutely complete fact for dogbit:
can only communicate in cynical, cryptic language.
  U don’t need to but has perhaps someone observed that I only communicate
In cynical cryptic language… that no other fashion of communication have I practicedJ
….
Since dogbit has goodbye perhaps someone else might explain what is referenced by
This discussion board… in this phrase from dogbit:
Good bye....the integrity of this discussion board is lost to me.
 I am assuming he meant not the whole discussion board or maybe so?
By allowing me to participate the whole discusstion board loses its integrity?

Then blitz in a statement seems to suggest that I don’t want to get better:
I agree with dogbit but was willing to give nostic a try if he/she was really wanting to get better.

All just got down to Portia …good for you J
U get some of my point maybe …. J

Now down to sela’s
I don’t know if some of what I have said recently helps understand why I don’t respond
..i think I said in some lines of development that every aspects is not vital and there
yet remain parts that actually could be insightful and helpful… once again
that thing of many all inclusive overdone statements …which of course I am guilty
of at times but not perhaps in my case the contextual nature is when it is the
humorous mode and when I am focusing precisely I might avoid such sematic
sins better J
now sela when u say :
it urks me when I bother and there is no response.

That when u bother that I never respond or that
At the times that I don’t respond is when it bothers u?

And in conclusion….
A major point that tho others think that the answer that would get to them
Is simple … at times with time I have convinced some that to get them
Is nowhere as simple as they thought and that much of my technique
Was not all that odd and In many ways effective ….
Now now don’t go screamin narcissist at me J
Idiosyncratic tho is fine J


Oh oh one last other maybe
Portia …blogs I might do… but
I am not ready for all the worship and following
Look what it did to bob Dylan
And even doesn’t even realize it yet fullyJ

Oh what u mean Portia by
Sending you a PM?
I guess I am not as hip as I think I am J

[Sela]

Hey again Joe:

....what fascinates me about humans if in their social  format....

Yes.....thankyou for the compliment then....because I too am human and for you then...facinating in my social format.  How lovely of you to say!  Thankyou so much!

I find you facinating too.  How only part of my sentence was picked about what urks me when I'm trying to communicate with you....and left out was the part about it being myyyyyyyy problem....and then.... your confusion about time was expressed.  Not time, Joe.  Nope.  When doesn't matter to me.  If....does.  Thought I made that clear and made it clear that it's myyyyy stuff.  Tried to understand why you might not respond sometimes.....many reasons.....many I may not know...especially didn't think of the many stuff about statements....must remind myself......all that. 

So......glad you responded then anyway.  Even though you have explained that it's the many overdone all inclusive statements...semantic sins.......that are the reasons for not doing so.....sometimes.  I assume you are including me in this, so I will do my best to watch that and try not to use too many all inclusive overdone semantic sinful statements, when communicating with you, k?

For me......that was simple and clear.

How was it for you?  Did you get it?

Did you hear me encouraging you in my previous post?  Any response to those encouraging words?  Dumb question (sorry).  Of course there isn't, or I'd be reading it now.  Oh but wait.....in time maybe???  That's ok Joe.  Whenever.

   Sela

[notgnosticasmostknowgn]

Hello Gnostic. You could always start a blog (but that seems such a lonely activity to me); or you could ask some straightforward questions? To allow some sense of helpfullness? Or to umm create an ectoplasmic-like gooey relationship feeling. It can work if you're willing to go with it, I feeeel. Sometimes. Just for the joy of letting go! If that's possible. Did you see the Ramble thread? So upsetting it was. Apparently. (What was so BAD about it anyways?)

AS WITNESSED AS TO THE DIRE CONDITION OF HUMAN SOCIETY
AND ITS DESTRUCTIVNESS...
ACTUALLY THO I AM AN ALIEN WHO IS CLOAKED AS A CHIMP

 

If you send me a PM I will post you (Germany, Austria?) this, below. The book that is. Yes I will. Are you registered yet? I'll send it to a post restante address. You'll hate it or not. Maybe you've read it.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/074756695X/qid=1124403527/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_11_1/026-9374821-0127605

The odd things with me is perhaps … that while I let go and can be quite wild
I can pretty fully observe at the same time..at times…
Which tends to freak out others J
And not wanting others to get overfreaked out … I don’t do it too often
That others can observer….
..i am not sure to what the it was when u say ..so upsetting it was. Now ifn I checked my post would I be able to perhaps find the ..it …in question…
perhaps what u pasted ..could well be it…
the dire conditions of human society and its destructiveness…
…if so… I am thinking mostly in terms of how they say u can put frogs
in water and gradually heat it and they can stay in and not leave even tho
they end up getting cooked…
such I wonder is the awareness of society of what could actually be comin
down the pike…. As from many sources of prophesy, there seem to be signs
that the end times could be at hand ….

K pax rings a bell … a movie based on the book I am thinking…

I think u might have some response to this
Ifn I haven’t covered it yet here oh I think I did…
But not maybe exactly in this context
Bout women being the weaker vessel
As being symbolic as to the relationship between conscious and subconscious
..as to which has more power …
many say subconscious but then some get it if I rephrase it as
which has more power the programmer or the program…
well that would be the programmer I think
and if he programs the program correctly then there is the ultimate power…
and just how should the programmer ..the conscious mind..
program the program… well of course according to the true
unchanging eternal principles of the superconscious J

now tho if one fouls up the program by bad conscious choices
it is the subconscious that blocks one from fully expressing oneself..
so in the sense of blocking full power of realization
in a way it is the subconscious but which can always be
changed by a conscious decision …to….

[notgnosticasmostknowgn]

Hey again Joe:

....what fascinates me about humans if in their social  format....

Yes.....thankyou for the compliment then....because I too am human and for you then...facinating in my social format.  How lovely of you to say!  Thankyou so much!

I find you facinating too.  How only part of my sentence was picked about what urks me when I'm trying to communicate with you....and left out was the part about it being myyyyyyyy problem....and then.... your confusion about time was expressed.  Not time, Joe.  Nope.  When doesn't matter to me.  If....does.  Thought I made that clear and made it clear that it's myyyyy stuff.  Tried to understand why you might not respond sometimes.....many reasons.....many I may not know...especially didn't think of the many stuff about statements....must remind myself......all that. 

So......glad you responded then anyway.  Even though you have explained that it's the many overdone all inclusive statements...semantic sins.......that are the reasons for not doing so.....sometimes.  I assume you are including me in this, so I will do my best to watch that and try not to use too many all inclusive overdone semantic sinful statements, when communicating with you, k?

For me......that was simple and clear.

How was it for you?  Did you get it?

Did you hear me encouraging you in my previous post?  Any response to those encouraging words?  Dumb question (sorry).  Of course there isn't, or I'd be reading it now.  Oh but wait.....in time maybe???  That's ok Joe.  Whenever.

   Sela

dang
i better be careful and responld to every detail...
else yonder cliff outside of nazareth beckons... google might reveal