remember the guy

[write]

who sent me the really obnoxious email saying he could never consider me a friend etc....

Well he's now getting married to one of my closest friends.

She's written to me begging me to go to the wedding.

I've explained to her already that it's not easy for me ( with Bipolar 1 ) and how much he hurt me, but she's besotted with him and can't see that it's not a good idea for me.

She just repeats her request that I go and makes excuses for him.

I'm not going to the wedding or engaging with him or anyone else who deliberately hurts me, but is there some way to deal with this without losing her friendship?

Giiven the narcissitic personality he's already shown I am torn- she will need me in the future, but I will not allow him any further into my life...and I don't trust him even if he apologises.

None of my friends like him either, so it's not just me.

Is there anything I've missed and a way I can handle this?

[vunil]

Is there a way to ask her something like this: "I really just can't go to the wedding.  I am so sorry.  I want to stay friends with you, and would be really upset if this meant that we can't be friends.  But something in me just can't go."

Maybe she thinks you are still pondering and doesn't get that you really have made up your mind.  I bet she also finds your acceptance of the wedding important for her own peace of mind.  You don't have to express this acceptance if you don't want to.

I'm sorry!  It sounds really stressful. It is always a mysterious thing, the people other people pick as their life partners...

[Stormchild]

Write, if she keeps pushing and refuses to hear you, she isn't being a friend right now anyway... sad but true... you might consider an alternative, such as offering to organize a shower, or take her and some other women to lunch. These occasions would exclude him and you'd be spared dealing with that. If that's not an option, in your place I'd get a really nice wedding gift and send it, with regrets about attending. All you can do is act like a civilized human being, which you are doing. If she can't meet you in the middle, you can't do it for her...

hugs

[Brigid]

Write,
I think you are totally justified in feeling the way you do and a good friend should be sympathetic to that.  I agree with Vunil that your presence at the wedding may give her some peace of mind (he must not be that bad a guy or whatever), but that is not your job.  My guess is that the friendship will be difficult to maintain after the wedding anyway as you will not want to associate with him and she will be defensive of her decision to marry him and eventually distance herself from you.

I think the shower and/or nice gift are both good ideas.  Only do what is comfortable for you.

Blessings,

Brigid

[Plucky]

write, this sounds like a very taxing situation.
needless to say, your friend is not thinking about your feelings and your health by pressing you.  And I have a hard time seeing how you are going to maintain the friendship after she is married to this guy.  I don't know the history, but it sounds like he is a jerk and you are just going to be waiting in the wings, biting back your tongue and picking up the pieces.

Before I got married, the night before, one of my friends told me not to get married.  She said, you can still back out.  She was so right, and at the time part of me knew it but most of me was just caught up in the tide.

I did not listen to her and she did not show up to the wedding.  In fact, we lost touch forever.  But I still think about her and I am grateful that she tried to save me.

I guess my point is, if you think your friend is making a mistake, say so.  If it destroys your freindship for now, how was that friendship going to survive anyway?  Once you say that you can't stand the guy, not just that he is not fun, but you think he is horrible, or whatever, she may not press you to attend any longer.  Or, you can say that your therapist does not think it is a good idea.

Plucky

[bunny]

write,

I would be firm and say, "I can't come." Don't expect her to let you off the hook, just say you aren't coming and don't allow any room for argument. I'm assuming she is aware of the reasons. If she can't handle it, she is no friend of yours. Her wedding is one day, it is not the end-all, be-all of the universe.  i wish her luck. I barely remember who was and wasn't at my wedding. It's not the barometer of friendship to me.

bunny

[write]

Thanks guys.

You're right, she is putting me under pressure. She is besotted and does not see anything wrong in how he treated me.

She worries me sometimes, says in order to further their relationship she has had to be patient and not ask questions about his past etc....no wonder he doesn't like me then, I'm always asking questions!
I couldn't imagine getting to know someone without learning about their history, especially if I were marrying.

The other thing about attending the wedding- it's in Europe and would cost me a thousand dollars just to get there.

Anyway I nicely explained yesterday and told her firmly I won't be going but I really wish them both well.

[bunny]

The other thing about attending the wedding- it's in Europe and would cost me a thousand dollars just to get there.

Hello? Earth calling bride-to-be.....earth to bride......you are crazy......please call earth, bride....oh, we lost the signal. Damn.

bunny

[Brigid]

Write,

I couldn't imagine getting to know someone without learning about their history, especially if I were marrying.

Isn't it amazing the extent some people will go to be married?  I liked Bunny's response the best.  I give this marriage a year or two at best, or she will just be miserable for a long time.  Why are they getting married in Europe?  Aren't they from the US?  That alone is a reason for concern.  I think you are very smart to not condone this union in any way.

Brigid

[bunny]

I think it is valid for friends to have expectations from each other, so it is natural that your friend has some from you. It is also natural that besotted as she is with an N, she has been sucked into his twisted worldview, and therefore discounts whatever hurt he may have caused you, just as she is going to have to discount whatever hurt he causes her in future. Which one of us hasn’t been there with the Ns in our lives?

With respect, I believe friends have REASONABLE expectations of each other. Her expectations are ridiculous. She expects write to give up her self-respect, self-protection, any rationality, and spend oodles of cash to go to her wedding thousands of miles away. I find this outrageous. Being infatuated doesn't erase sensitivity and consideration toward other people.


It is also equally important not to dismiss her as your friend just because she is pleading you to consider her feelings. I think it is dangerous when we start judging who is being a friend and who isn’t based on an incident like this. For one thing, the more friends we lose because we suspect their lack of friendship or ill will towards us, the more bitter and cynical we are likely to become: the more we see that it is because of our incompatibility for some reason, more accepting and open we become. Therefore I think it is important to put demise of relationships in correct perspective. 

Friendship is based on mutuality. This is a one-way street where the woman wants write to make all the concessions. I would seriously question a friendship if a friend behaved like this toward me. I wouldn't consider it a huge loss, if the person had a history of treating me like this, or, if it looked like this was the future of the friendship.

I don't know whether they can remain friends after the wedding, it depends on whether this woman continues to treat write like an N supply.

bunny

[bunny]

I think it is a challenge for those who come frm N background to learn to distinguish between the two, to trust our judgment regarding it, and learn to deal with the second type of conflict. One of the criterias I often use is whether I would do the same thing as the other person, if I were in her shoes. I could see myself behaving like write's friend; and yes, I would also make a supra loyal friend. I could never see myself behaving like the guy her friend is marrying though. So to me, the friend's behavior is "normal conflict" and the guy's is not.

I have three issues with this bride:

(1) She wouldn't take "no" for an answer and pressured her friend. That doesn't fit into my idea of friendship.
(2) She expected her friend to attend a wedding in another country. That is ridiculous.
(3) She had no sensitivity, empathy, or willingness to see that write needed to protect herself.

And these problems FOR ME, would make me question the friendship. Boundary issues, which I see here, are big red flags to me.

bunny

[write]

Finally she accepted I'm not going!

But it does worry me- she can't accept it's because of him, just thinks it's because I will get stressed.

I can't say any more to her, she'll just see it as my sour grapes, but it's sad to see her walk into this, and part of me believes he was so horrible to me because he didn't like to see her friendship with me, someone who has gotten herself out of a marriage and is outspoken and independent.

 I hope it isn't a control thing, and I guess only time will tell. But he's 30 years her senior, so she's already defensive about the age difference.

If he was a decent guy and knew how much she wanted me there and that he is the obstacle I think he'd probably apologise or try to build bridges, to please her if nothing else.

Time will tell whether he will stand in the way of our friendship or how things will work out.
I'll be supportive from a safe distance!

[Plucky]

Maybe the friend is reacting to pressure from the N fiance to behave in N ways.  Maybe your friend would be more understanding if not under the influence of 'the guy'.  Maybe she feels torn.  Brides are also under a lot of pressure.  It is almost as bad as being pregnant.
Plucky

[vunil]

I agree everything might get better after the wedding.  It is always tough when people couple up with people we wouldn't choose-- it has happened to me, too.  Usually they do eventually get divorced.  My strategy has been to be quiet about the match and stay friends with both (really friends with the one I like, polite friends with the one I don't-- cordial, but not close) to hold onto the friendship. I don't think people stay friends with someone who really vehemently dislikes their spouse and makes it known-- they just can't make that happen.  I can't think of an example of someone doing that, although of course this is just my experience.  It would be an odd balancing act.

So I would say don't go to the wedding if you really don't want to, perhaps making an excuse about how it was too expensive (you'll both know the real reason) later when you talk about it, be polite to Mr. Yucky so that your friend doesn't feel she has to exclude you from her life, and go on from there.  There is no accounting for who people choose in their romantic life;  in some ways friendship is the purer relationship.  She is going to need you In the meantime, how stressful for you!  I'm sorry.

[bunny]

I don't disagree with what's being said here, but when I got married I did NOT turn into "another person" who suddenly treated people differently, and pressured people, and expected things from them. Maybe I'm wierd but I was THE SAME PERSON before and after the wedding.

bunny