Author Topic: black and white thinking  (Read 1865 times)

vunil

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
black and white thinking
« on: October 15, 2005, 12:20:23 AM »
This is kind of an intellectual thought or line of thought, but I wanted to run it by folks:

I think that N tendencies are born out of black and white thinking of a certain kind. I have been thinking back on my childhood, and watching my parents, who some of you know are with me during the days now to help with childcare.  My parents and I are forging a better relationship, not perfect, but better.  They have very N coping mechanisms that get in the way of their further growth and that get in the way of our relationship, and that in general make it tough for things to function smoothly, much to my (and I think their, unconscious) frustration.  It has been very helpful for me to try to understand what these barriers are, to make things better now and just to help me keep some perspective when things get weird (as they sometimes do). 

The things that stand in the way of smooth functioning, for them, and for the N's I have dated, all center around black and white thinking about themselves and others' perceptions of them.  They have to be all the way the best, all the way right, all the way in control, and all the way praised, or it feels to them as if the world has utterly collapsed on them-- they have all of this or none of it.  It is so stressful to be contradicted or told what to do or given a task that is driven by someone else's needs that it is almost overwhelming because it suggests that they are terrible, invisible, always wrong, horribly flawed, etc.  I can see how uncomfortable it is for them, how devastating, and I can watch them cope by engaging in these N behaviors (not telling the full truth, bragging inappropriately, making really big declarations without any factual basis, going against my wishes in ways that seem capricious and unnecessary, contradicting what I say when there is absolutely no real reason to do so).  I have learned to make things work better by trying not to threaten them in the ways that send them over the edge, but of course it's impossible to do this completely, and so the relationship sometimes seems like a car with one flat tire-- there is always this bumpy aspect to it, even when we are moving forward.

I know that analyzing where N tendencies come from isn't that interesting to those of us in relationships with truly psychopathic NPD types-- I have dated men like that and I agree it's better just to run away from them and who cares why they are the way they are.  But those of us with Narcissistic Family upbringings might benefit from the analysis because I believe if you grow up this way you have to unlearn the black and white thinking yourself.  For the longest time I was super-needy with men because I thought if they didn't love everything about me and if they didn't want to be with me 24-7 then they didn't want me at all.  (What a prize I was-- jeez louise).  Etc.  I think that the seeds of this kind of thinking must be in me even now and I'm going to try to address it in myself as much as possible.  The alternative is staying stuck in this infantile black-white world.  At the least, for me, identifying the source of the disfunction helps me feel a little less waylayed by it.   And I can really specifically make a goal for myself that, even when really stressed, I will try not to fall into those same kinds of thought patterns because I see where it leads.

vunil

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
Re: black and white thinking
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2005, 12:26:40 AM »
Oh, one little addendum-- the previous may make it seem that I am altering my behavior/childcare needs/desires in order to tiptoe around my parents.  I promise I'm not doing that-- I am just trying to make sure my own communications are not black and white, that if I ask for something it is clear that I am not saying something grandiose and general about them, if I have a problem with something I try to make clear it's something specific, and that it is minor compared to how much I appreciate overall what they are doing for me, etc.  This may sound like too much trouble to some, but it's ok with me, at least for a few weeks, because it is good practice for me in being clear, and because it does help the broken car work a little better.

It would be too much trouble in a love relationship, I agree.  I feel happy to have so clearly identified the problem because heaven knows I wouldn't want to live with it all the time.  I wish for their sake they didn't have this problem, but if wishes were fishes...

dandylife

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
Re: black and white thinking
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2005, 12:53:07 AM »
Yes! I have found this to be absolutely true. The N cannot be contradicted or their world falls apart. I was speaking with mine the other night after long and exhausting "discussions" and he came to a long and well thought out point by saying, "Treat me just like you'd treat a 4 year old boy." I have seen him stomp his feet and rage and have temper tantrums. He is 43 years old. But he just has the emotional intelligence of a 4 year old. What to do? I have been told by some therapists to rage back and it seems to get his attention. The only thing that has ever worked is to threaten to leave (abandonment) and all of a sudden he's reasonable, calm and the most loving person.
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

plucky as guest

  • Guest
Re: black and white thinking
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2005, 12:58:24 AM »
Hi Vunil,
it sounds like things are working better for you four.  That is very good!  As far as the b/w thinking, I agree that it seems to be a salient trait of my mother, who may be an N.    However, I just returned from a visit with her, and I have to say it was better than any visit so far.   This time, I could recognise all her little ploys right away and I just shut her down.  I felt a little twinge a few times, because I thought I was being too harsh, or too dismissive of her issues/reasons/whatever,  but overall, I came away with a better feeling after being with her than I have had in recorded history.

And I don't think she is any the worse for wear.  For once, she did not cry, stop speaking to me, yell, go on a drama streak, have a hypertensive episode, or talk about her own impending death in ringing tones.  There were no dramatic scenes.

And for once, I resisted (mainly), her control of what I and my children ate, where/how/what time we slept, what activities we engaged in,, and I did not listen to any mean comments about anyone else.  I walked away, I stopped listening, I said no, I just treated her as if I was a normal person and she was a normal person.  When she started on the wrong track, I just frowned, like a watchdog gives that little warning growl.  One more step and I will turn my back and stop listening.  It worked!

How freeing!  And I have the members of this board to thank.

Relationships are a dance, and I just changed my steps.  So she had to change hers.  I think I shifted the focus to her trying to get along with me, instead of the other way around.  It may not be useful info for you, but then, it may.
Yaye!

vunil

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 263
Re: black and white thinking
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2005, 03:20:03 AM »
Funny, things got much better with us when I kicked them out for the day (in fury).  Maybe you do have to growl sometimes to make things work.  It is so odd-- nothing like the other relationships in my life. 

mudpuppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
Re: black and white thinking
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2005, 12:32:30 PM »
Hi Vunil,

Here's my opinion.

I think the black and white thinking is a symptom not a cause.
The cause is their overwhelming insecurity and fear of discovery of that insecurity.
If they are literally scared to death of the world figuring out that they are flawed and or incompetent and or not in control then the defense mechanism they use is black and white thinking. "I have to be the smartest in the room",  " I have to dominate the conversation", "No one can see that I don't know the answer", " No one can embarrass me"
That kind of fear also leads to using others to build up their non existant ego. The egotistical facade is just window dressing for scared little rabbits. Fear and fear alone is what motivates and animates these people IMO. Of course anger is a byproduct of this fear. I'm sure they feel quite angry at the injustice of beng so insecure and afraid all the time. And they're especially angry when anyone threatens their facade of superiority. The anger is where the abuse of others comes in, I believe.

I'm sure we have all been terrified for short periods occasionally. Its pretty hard to act rationally when we are. Imagine living like that for forty, fifty or sixty years with the fear of being discovered thrown on top along with a seeming inability to see the cause and effect of their behaviors. What a way to live.

mud

dandylife

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 491
Re: black and white thinking
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2005, 01:36:39 PM »
mud,
you have an amazing empathy that shows through. You sound like a caring person. I think that's another reason it's hard to disentangle from an N. They need us so bad.
"All things not at peace will cry out." Han Yun

"He who angers you conquers you." - Elizabeth Kenny

mudpuppy

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1276
Re: black and white thinking
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2005, 08:52:20 PM »
Hey dandy,
Thanks for the compliment but,
all I feel for the rapscallions is pity at their pathetic lives.
I try to save my empathy and sympathy for their victims.

mud

Plucky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 800
Re: black and white thinking
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2005, 09:03:18 PM »
Quote
It is so odd-- nothing like the other relationships in my life.
Thank goodness!
Plucky