13 yr old is cutting her body need advise

[spyralle]

Hi OR,

My heart goes out to you...  My daughter cut for a while and I know the pain and helplessness that goes with being a mother around this issue.  Many of my daughters friends were also doing this at the time, but it started with her after my partner died.  She blamed herself for a long time...  Of course Hopalong is right and the guilt was massive but the main thing for me was to just try and be a stable and consistent presence.  Of course as you can see from my other posts I did not do a great job of stable but consistently loving a child nomatter what you both go through and letting them know that every day, goes a long long way.

I was advised to read 'A bright red scream' by Marilee Strong.  It explores the reasoning and meaning behind this complex act...

My daughter is now twenty and has not cut for four years.  It only lasted a short time but, everytime I discovered another episode I was terrified.  Hang in there...  Give her her space but be constantly open for communication and love.  My daugher said to me a few months ago.  "Whatever we go through and whatever I do I know that you will always be there for me..."  That meant the world to me...  Consistency and love will mean the world to her.

Hang on in there...  We are holding your hand

Spyralle xxx

[onlyrenting]

Hopalong

You are stressed and exhausted from this marathon but there's a whole crowd of people standing just ahead of you cheering you on, holding out bottles of water and ready to hug you at the finish line!
Just looooooook at something natural, living, beautiful, quiet. Remind yourself you belong here, you have a right to be here, you are a good human being, nature allows mistakes, you love your child and she doggone well knows it...

Dallas is having great weather, we went for a long bike ride on a bike trail near a pond.
I love the water and it's as close as we get here in TX. I explained to her keeping up on our health is important and eating right will make us feel better. We both are in great shape but I want to make more of an impact with her during this time.
I have not fallen into depression keeping busy not being alone for too long, going to visit my SIL/BIL and the kids helps us both. We go to movies and my D has many friends to keep her busy. Sometimes I feel like a good drink is what I could use but know during this time drinking is not going to help.
I did enjoy a dry martini at the Christmas Party, I danced ate some good food and talked with friends, that was my fun for the year.. 




Hopalong

My daughter did minor cutting in high school when I was married to her Nstepdad, we had moved to a new state, and she was isolated within her peer group.
Three weeks ago, mid-year, after a long struggle and dropping out twice and re-enrolling, she graduated. She also quit smoking cigarettes a year ago. She's planning on grad school.

Don't give up on your daughter. The transition to adulthood is the biggest storm of life. But I think the fact that she was talking to her friend in the car while you were there was a blatant way to say to you, "I feel safe with you. I want you in my world." You must be doing something right that shows her your persistent love.

Hopalong, my problem is something you can understand and someday I may share my story to others too.
I feel encouraged, but know this ride is not over and like all parents the seatbelts must be worn, hold on tight the ride is just beginning. I do feel so encouraged she let me in on her day at school, I asked her more about what happend but she did not want to share for now.


nightsong

Although this seems an extreme and repulsive behavior, it is normally not dangerous and is in fact potentially less harmful than a lot of other ways teenagers may choose to help themselves through difficult times. She could be smoking, drinking, doing drugs, sleeping around or indulging in other risky behaviors - she has chosen to cut.

Please don't try to stop her (I don't get the impression you are doing this, but I feel it's important to say that). It's her coping mechanism - if she is stopped, how will she cope?

It is helpful to ensure that she knows where the first aid box is and can clean and dress her cuts if she needs to

It is quite difficult to sever the artery in the wrist and it can't be done with this sort of cutting.
have more control in their lives and no longer feel the need to create control for themselves in this way. So the key to helping her reach that point has to be - support her lovingly, and help her have control in her life. I wish you well.

Nightsong I believe I am dealing with this very calm, we have talked about the infections that can occur with cutting.
I see she is cutting the short small cuts. I do want her to stop cutting, we are working on other ways for her to cope I have read some of the websites that offer some Ideas how to use other ways like using ice, or snapping a rubber band on the wrist. She wants to find another T, this T was a much  older woman and not working for my D. We are working on this for now she is happy for her pastor until we find another T. 

I agree kids have all kinds of ways to cope, the drugs, sex and other ways are much worse. I do feel we can all strive to be the best at who we are and this take work and time to figure it all out.
The cutting is better than some ways but not the best idea. Without her going through struggles and comming out the other side with understanding, how will she ever know how to have commpasion for those having similar struggles.

All the help and advise has made this less scary for me, I feel brave and will walk through her dark time holding her hand with love.


spyralle

 

was advised to read 'A bright red scream' by Marilee Strong.  It explores the reasoning and meaning behind this complex act...
My daughter said to me a few months ago.  "Whatever we go through and whatever I do I know that you will always be there for me..."  That meant the world to me...  Consistency and love will mean the world to her

.

I will look forward to the day she will grow past this phase in her life, however having them affirm and credit you for helping them during her difficult time, the time she will remember the most,  would mean the world as a parent.   

Today I will look up this book at the library..

Thank you spyralle

My D and her friend just woke up and they are hungry got to go.....OR

[andromeda]

Hey OR -

In the big picture of things - I look at my scars from when I cut, and know I am a strong, sensitive person who made it through some craziness.

The fact that she's being a supportive person to her friends means she's seeing some craziness in her peer group, and standing strong in herself, despite the stress...it sounds like there is alot going on in her life, with her parents divorce, stuff at school, etc. but she's got some great resources (like YOU!!! and her pastor etc). Hang in there!!!

Last of all, I'm throwing a book recommendation your way as well - one I read this weekend that touches on the biochemical aspect of cutting - its called, A General Theory of Love by Thomas Lewis, Fari Amini, and Richard Lannon, all MDs who go through the biology of emotional life. Really added alot to my understanding of my own emotional growth.

((((((hugs))))))

Andromeda

[onlyrenting]

D, is so upset with me she's staying with her friend tonight.

The girl who my D told the counselor was hurting herself by cutting, told the counselor my D had been cutting too. Now the counselor has left a message at my work to call her so she can check with me if I know about the cutting.
We had a great weekend, she wanted to stay with me over the weekend giving up her time with friends at the mall.

So I'm on the computer and an Inst Mess (IM) for my D pops up
(they pop up all the time, I never look at them and always close the pop up windows. )

This one pops up and I decide to answer back as though I'm my D. (I don't know why intuition I guess)
At first he says I have a question so I said What?

The I'M says how he heard my D tried to kill herself. I asked him when and where, he said a few days ago is what he heard from my Ds friend (J)

Then my D walked up behind me and went ballistic reading about killing herself. I told her I was sorry but when someone is talking about you wanting to Kill yourself.!!! she said this was never true and not to worry she would never do this. She was upset with me and wanted to stay the night with the same friend (J)that said this.

The conversation got heated and she was crying saying how hard being 13 is and missing her dad.
Not seeing him for almost a year now, and all the pressures at school. She was mad and I can see why, I told her I love her and I believe her when she said she did not try and kill herself but sometimes as a parent I need to watch for her own protection.

 She called her friend (J) ready to run away! She said she was going to call her Dad, I said go ahead I will love you  either way. ( she said if I let her stay with her friend (J) just to get away, someone to talk to, she would not call her dad. )  She was so upset I let her go but not because she would have called her dad... I believe she knows she has a better life here and can call her dad anytime but never does.

The girls (J)father said my D is a good girl and to trust her.  The girls will figure this out and not to worry.

I'm going to bed will try and sleep... OR

[Healing&Hopeful]

(((((((((((((((((OR)))))))))))))))))))))

One of my first thoughts from reading your post is "Why is it so hard for your D being 13?"

I feel you are justifying to yourself why you read your D's IM.  Does your gut feeling tell you you were right to read it, and how would you feel if you were 13 and this was your Mum who had done this?

Although your D is staying with friends, it sounds like she's still supervised by J's father and while hard, I agree with you to try not to worry at the moment.

While a different situation, I thought I'd share this with you.  My BIL's wife's daughter has twin girls and is with this guy who, in fairness, is a layabout.  He's just finished another job and is out of work.  She works 5 days a week, and takes the girls to his Mum's to look after while he stays in bed.  Understandably BIL and his wife are pretty unhappy with this situation and feel that the least he can do is look after his children while his partner goes to work.  I heard all about what they thought about him and that they don't normally interfer unless it's something which affects the twins.  I turned to them and asked "What does your daughter think?"  They couldn't tell me... so I replied, "Don't you think it's more important to find out first?"

Take care hon

H&H xx

[onlyrenting]

Healing&Hopeful

I feel you are justifying to yourself why you read your D's IM.  Does your gut feeling tell you you were right to read it, and how would you feel if you were 13 and this was your Mum who had done this?

I don't know, I'm upset and want to help her not have her pist at me. Being a single mom I feel in the dark sometimes and want some light shed on her life so I can know how to help her.
The way I found out the shocking information was not my 1st choice.
She just wanted to get away because I found out something she would not want me to know true or not.
She was giving me any reason why she was so upset so she could leave ...

I have to go to work Thanks for the reply .................OR

[Healing&Hopeful]

((((((((((((((((OR))))))))))))))


I'm upset and want to help her not have her pist at me - Bingo.... this is what you are aiming for, to help her.  I really feel for you.  I also do understand why you feel in the dark and can appreciate how difficult it is being a single mum.  I see being a parent as a difficult enough job on it's own, doubly so when you don't have the support from a partner and an X N husband.  In some ways though I can relate to what your daughter is going through with her dad, because it's what I went through.

I read (I think it was in the reading material on here actually) that most teenagers complaints are that no one understands, that no one listens to them, that no one "hears" them, who cares.... and it is actually more common than people realise for teenagers to think about suicide.  If she had seriously attempted to commit suicide you would know about it, because the hospital would have to ring you.  She is under 16 so there is no way this would have happened without you knowing.  I appreciate that what you read is still serious, but I guess I'm saying it could be much worse.  I do feel that you need to trust your D.

Maybe a way to deal with this is explain to her that you are human and you make mistakes.... that you don't always know the best way to deal with things and that while you try and do what's best for her, only she knows what is best for her.

"My gut feeling is telling me that when she was crying saying how hard being 13 is and missing her dad is a key to unlocking all of this.  I'm not sure why, but my instinct is telling me this is really important."

I don't know why your D hasn't seen her dad for almost a year now... but with me, I decided to stop contact when I was about 11/12 I think.  I didn't speak to him for about 6/7 years.  I can't even remember how I felt at the time, but I'm guessing I would have felt quite abandoned.  This might be different in your daughter's case, I don't know.

Take care.... sending lots of good wishes to you and your D.

H&H xx

[momincyberspace]

I wanted to reply to this because I have first hand knowledge of what you're going through. When my daughter was 16 she started cutting herself. The reason she did this she said is because of trouble with her boyfriend. I know it was true because I was with her during one time when she was extremely upset that they were not getting along. He was controlling. This only happened a few times and the last time over a year ago, I told her that we were going to get her some help. I also always talked to her and never was angry and tried to be understanding. I think had i freaked out like i WANTED to do, it would have been worse. She has not done this now in over a year. It was a phase in her case. Not always is this so. I was desperate as are for help in understanding this. But she has friends who have done this. I believe this is a sort of epidemic among this age of girls. Just wanted you to know that in some situations, things work out.

[write]

well, even if it's heated you are communicating OR and know more about the network she's involved in and she's telling you about her emotions.

High drama indeed, but I think even a teenager should know if words like suicide are bandied about they are going to arouse some parental concern.

One of my friends told me recently that one of his children committed suicide age 13. I have no idea of the circumstances, but it does happen and I don't think it will harm your daughter to be told- you are v concerned when the topic moves from cutting to suicide.

She's asking a lot of yu as a parent, though she probably doesn't see it that way, just wanting you to see her self-harming.

But children are very manipulative too, my son rarely misses daddy until I say no, or something goes wrong, or he wants extra attention at bedtime when it's time to sleep.

You of course have the life experience to see the whole picture, your daughter will just see it from her own limited view right now.

I understand why you answered the message, but it's a good opportunity for you to establish some new boundaries of trust, you agreeing she can have her privacy if she respects your worry and concern as a parent etc.

(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[onlyrenting]

Healing&Hopeful

no one understands, that no one listens to them, that no one "hears" them, who cares.... and it is actually more common thanpeople realise for teenagers to think about suicide

.

This past Fathers Day her 34 yr old Multi millionare cousin committed suicide (on drugs)
depressed about his divorce drowning himself on his way here in TX.
I don't believe for one minute she would ever do this, I do trust her and know she does love life. 
However, how much of her fathers genes she has remains to be seen so I worry.

My gut feeling is telling me that when she was crying saying how hard being 13 is and missing her dad is a key to unlocking all of this.  I'm not sure why, but my instinct is telling me this is really important

."

I believe this is her trump card, when she wants to get her way. She is trying to fit in at school and I know she is missing her father.
His recent letter is telling her how he will be in for another surgury in the next two weeks.
He doesn't know how he will take care of himself without help. I think she feels helpless for him.

 knowing he could be here getting help from family as planned but he is so N- he, would rather put the blame on everyone else why he is in this situation. I know she worries and he continues to tell her all about
his medical problems even after the court tells him not to tell her these things, so she worries.

I don't know why your D hasn't seen her dad for almost a year now...

 ( my story is on this board, "what would you think about this comment"  but in short H is N and received a large sum of money from WC just before we were to move here to TX.(We didn't know about the money)

He could be here to have the surgries. He has had neck,back, hands elbows and needs another back.
6 operations in 6 years,he would rather have his money from W.C  and make sure no one gets his money. He told me he would shoot me if I moved here
(after 27 years of marriage) 6 yrs he has been on Disability and with very little money, only my income.
he filed for divorce when we moved here and has not sent more than 20.00 for christmas to help us out in over 10 mos.
He writes our D 2-3 times a week to say HI, and tell her how bad I am and how sick he is.



momincyberspace

The reason she did this she said is because of trouble with her boyfriend. I know it was true because I was with her during one time when she was extremely upset that they were not getting along. He was controlling.
I believe this is a sort of epidemic among this age of girls. Just wanted you to know that in some situations, things work out.

 MICS, Thank you, Im getting it now that this could be an epidemic.
 With time a more healthy way of dealing with her problems will be discovered. I have hope things will work out. Im so glad I put the subject matter on the board, this has helped me so much
 


Write

well, even if it's heated you are communicating OR and know more about the network she's involved in and she's telling you about her emotions.

But children are very manipulative too, my son rarely misses daddy until I say no, or something goes wrong, or he wants extra attention at bedtime when it's time to sleep.
but it's a good opportunity for you to establish some new boundaries of trust, you agreeing she can have her privacy if she respects your worry and concern as a parent etc.

 
Your right even if heated we were communicating. I reenforced my words  with how much I loved her and wanted to walk through this with her, no matter how difficult and I wish she would not feel the need to run but to face the problem with me. I explained to her I could not run I had to face my problems and wanted her to not run but to deal with this together.

She is on her way home... We will see how things go..


Thanks again ..................OR


I will establish some new boundaries as you suggest.  . 

[Healing&Hopeful]

Healing&Hopeful

no one understands, that no one listens to them, that no one "hears" them, who cares.... and it is actually more common thanpeople realise for teenagers to think about suicide

.

This past Fathers Day her 34 yr old Multi millionare cousin committed suicide (on drugs)
depressed about his divorce drowning himself on his way here in TX.
I don't believe for one minute she would ever do this, I do trust her and know she does love life. 
However, how much of her fathers genes she has remains to be seen so I worry.

My gut feeling is telling me that when she was crying saying how hard being 13 is and missing her dad is a key to unlocking all of this.  I'm not sure why, but my instinct is telling me this is really important

."

I believe this is her trump card, when she wants to get her way. She is trying to fit in at school and I know she is missing her father.
His recent letter is telling her how he will be in for another surgury in the next two weeks.
He doesn't know how he will take care of himself without help. I think she feels helpless for him.

 knowing he could be here getting help from family as planned but he is so N- he, would rather put the blame on everyone else why he is in this situation. I know she worries and he continues to tell her all about
his medical problems even after the court tells him not to tell her these things, so she worries.

I don't know why your D hasn't seen her dad for almost a year now...

 ( my story is on this board, "what would you think about this comment"  but in short H is N and received a large sum of money from WC just before we were to move here to TX.(We didn't know about the money)

He could be here to have the surgries. He has had neck,back, hands elbows and needs another back.
6 operations in 6 years,he would rather have his money from W.C  and make sure no one gets his money. He told me he would shoot me if I moved here
(after 27 years of marriage) 6 yrs he has been on Disability and with very little money, only my income.
he filed for divorce when we moved here and has not sent more than 20.00 for christmas to help us out in over 10 mos.
He writes our D 2-3 times a week to say HI, and tell her how bad I am and how sick he is.
 

(((((((((((((OR))))))))))))))

I am so glad to hear she is back home with you....

I didn't explain myself very well... when I said about D not seeing her dad for a year, I meant is this because she doesn't want to see him?  Or because he's decided he doesn't want to see her?

The similarities between my situation and this are quite astonishing... from the not being able to look after himself... Does he do the "poor me"?... the blaming...  One difference I do see is that her dad does have surgery, where mine thought he should have surgery for one thing or another.  Money is another funny issue with mine as well, so I'm not that surprised to here what you say.  Because Mum had remarried, bio dad was disgusted (and I mean out and out disgusted) that he was expected to pay for me.... however, he was adamant he still wanted to see me until I was able to make my own decisions.  He used to say to me, even when I was about 7/8 that my stepdad should be paying for me as I live with him.

You know your daughter, OR.... and she could be playing a trump card and she could be trying to manipulate, but I feel that she is saying to you "Look Mum, my life is tough".  Throughout my whole childhood, I didn't really have anyone to talk about having divorced parents.  The best way I can describe it is that you juggle your parents.... you don't really talk to them about how you feel about the other, because (regardless of what goes on, I feel at 13 I was still feeling like this) you are loyal to both parents.  If one or other parent is putting the other one down, for me anyway, I tried to keep out of it.... but was well aware from an early age that Mum hated Dad and Dad hated Mum.  So even if you asked her how she felt about her dad, my guess is she would tell you what you want to hear, more than how she feels.

As an adult, I juggled so much that by the end I never spoke to the other parent about each other.  Never told bio dad that I was going round Mum's and never told Mum that I was going round bio dad's.  It only came to light when me and H were due to get married and had to organise stuff.  They never asked about each other either.

I may be telling you stuff that you already know.... stuff that you've already read, but maybe it is of some help.  I hope so.

Take care

H&H xx

[Sela]

Hi OR:

Just a thought:

He writes our D 2-3 times a week to say HI, and tell her how bad I am and how sick he is.

Do you have access to these letters?  Are there actual derogatory comments about you in the letters?

Wonder what your lawyer would say of that?  Parent Allienation Plus???

Whining about being sick isn't parenting is it?

Another strike against him, if you ask me.  It would be nice to let the court know about this wouldn't it?

What if you explained to your daughter that it's manipulating for one parent to say bad things about another to their child (short and simple) and that you are interested in her, in her feelings, in her thoughts, in her hopes and dreams and not in using her to nurse you through your own sorrows???

However, how much of her fathers genes she has remains to be seen so I worry.

I wonder if she might be worried about this too?

Sela

[onlyrenting]

H & H

I didn't explain myself very well... when I said about D not seeing her dad for a year, I meant is this because she doesn't want to see him?  Or because he's decided he doesn't want to see her?

He refuses to come here to see her, he wants her to fly back to CA.
Because of his over use of medications in the past  he is required to have supervised
visits. He is mad, would not want anyone to tell him what to do with his daughter.
This Friday the courts will review the medical reports to help determine if she would be safe with out supervised visits.

He can't see the danger he poses, we have many reasons to be concerned but he is so (N) only his view point matters.
He would want to see her and not let her come back to TX and feel he has the right.

D, misses her dad, she wants to be loyal, she feels sorry for him as he reminds her how alone he is because
I caused the distance between them causing him a stroke which lead to him crashing his car.
When the medical reports are reviewed, which I have not seen them, we would want to know what meds
he should be on and upcoming surgeries, meaning more medications. 

 

you are loyal to both parents

She can call him anytime, and recently has called him to say hi.
When she talks to me about something I just listen. In the past I have said in the most kind way my thoughs about whatever and it just comes out
wrong, So I just listen. I don't hate her dad and want her to love who she is and will become
It makes me mad at him when he tells her lies about me then she gets confused why would her dad lie.
I sit alone and have to trust she will know the lies and understand her dad is a very confused man.

As an adult, I juggled so much that by the end I never spoke to the other parent about each other.  Never told bio dad that I was going round Mum's and never told Mum that I was going round bio dad's.  It only came to light when me and H were due to get married and had to organise stuff.  They never asked about each other either.

The next 5 years will be important, he often reminds her he expects to be having more surgeries
for the next 3 years and may not see her again because he may not live that long. So depressing for her.


Sela,

Do you have access to these letters?  Are there actual derogatory comments about you in the letters?

The courts have already told him not to tell her about his health, but he does what ever he wants.
I have copies of the most concerning ones and will discuss them on Friday.

What if you explained to your daughter that it's manipulating for one parent to say bad things about another to their child (short and simple) and that you are interested in her, in her feelings, in her thoughts, in her hopes and dreams and not in using her to nurse you through your own sorrows???

My exH tells her all of the above about me but as an (N) I think it's projection.

Got to go D has youth group ....OR

[write]

thinking about you. You're doing a great job.

xoxo

[onlyrenting]

Write, thank you for the encouragement.

D, is OK, she tells me she loves me and talking as thought nothing ever happen...

I need to leave to pick her up from YG...

Thank you all so much.. OR