Author Topic: Sam Vaknin: 'guru wannabee'  (Read 12198 times)

write

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ok, [color=red]really[/color] last word from me for a while
« Reply #15 on: January 22, 2004, 11:38:57 AM »
I am sorry I upset you Portia, I know this is a very healing community. And it works- I have learned much here and been able to express my pain to other people who understand it. I am empowered. but I wouldn't like the process of finding my voice detract from anyone else's.

Better expressed, my point is that the children nevertheless are here, they are being parented by two damaged people. We never understood this before, we never planned life to be like this. But we are doing our best. And our kids are loving, healthy, happy, intelligent, humorous, sociable, adaptable...people who know them like them very much. We like them very much. This is one-sided because I am speaking for my partner...but I am certain he feels the same, in fact it is because I know he does that our marriage still exists.

I felt baited as any parent does when they are criticised- yes, that is a knee-jerk reaction....but believe me I am a conscientious parent and went away and examined what people said, and discussed it with my therapist.

It's strange, but so much of my anger and frustration has evaporated since I learned about narcissism, and was able to stand back and see the whole picture, not just the version through my experience. I have a higher level of acceptance and insight now.

I understand now that trying to make my husband change his narcissism is abusive of me...if simultaneously I can't accept who he is and if he cannot respect my basic relationship tenets in spite of the narcissism...I need to make different life-choices.

I don't know if my marriage is doomed but my family definitely isn't: there is much love and laughter here and we can work through things, whether we all stay living together or not.

My husband does trust me, especially where the children are concerned, and he is still coming to terms with the narcissism himself. Maybe he will come to a point that he will do some therapy. But there is a mutuality which will be the foundation for whatever we decide, and that is our love for our children.

My therapist pointed out that there are degrees of narcissism, that the narcissist is still an individual with a mix of qualities. One of my husband's qualities is undoubtedly he is a good father, even when it pains him because of his narcissism. I asked the therapist if I am in denial saying this, she said, are you? She thinks that the children would show signs of being damaged, and she agreed that no family situation is perfect, the damage comes from ignoring things or not being honest etc. We discussed what qualities make a good parent and how families deal with trauma.

My children are not old enough to discuss personality disorder, or their parent's relationship problems, but I did ask my son is he happy. He was very clear: yes.

Finally I don't post this to justify myself, but as closure for a part of my healing process. The next stage is to see how we can live with the narcissism and I intend to research that fully, to see what can be done to help us all.

And that is where the thread started really, because much of the internet advice about how I as N-partner should treat my narcissistic husband is inaccurate and unhelpful and would turn me from being a warm, open, caring & growing human being into a harsh, dishonest, projected angry false self...and doesn't that sound familiar?

Portia

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Sam Vaknin: 'guru wannabee'
« Reply #16 on: January 23, 2004, 07:01:27 AM »
Thank you for your final post here write. It is full of fascinating insights. Good luck with your research. I hope you find what you need.

Thank you Argusina for facilitating the conclusion of this ‘stage’.  

I have learnt from both of you. P

Wondering

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Not all those with narcissistic families have NPD
« Reply #17 on: February 03, 2004, 06:08:07 PM »
It can be difficult to tell the difference between someone who was seriously affected by a narcissitic family and someone who actually has Narcissistic Personality Disorder (where I've been told "disorder" implies that it is so deeply a part of their makeup that they can never recover).  

As close as I have been on the inside of narcissistic families I still can not determine for sure whether the NPD label applies or not - even in the face of extreme abuse and drug addictions.  

Even if one parent truly has NPD if the other one provides protection, a voice and attention to their children they could be as "normal" as most families.  If there are "normal" families I haven't seen many.

Argusina

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Sam Vaknin: 'guru wannabee'
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2004, 05:46:32 AM »
Thank you all - I learned a lot! Read everything with great consideration. I think healthy conflict is totally okay and can even be invigorating  :)

Hugs to all

Susannah

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write
« Reply #19 on: November 26, 2004, 11:47:11 AM »
'Write', would you please e-mail me privately?  Susannah4Yah@Yahoo.com

Anonymous

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Sam Vaknin: 'guru wannabee'
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2005, 08:47:02 PM »
The fact remains that the children will continue to have contact with the NPD parent regardless of the marital status of the parents. The non-NPD parent must make a decisions as to the wisdom of staying in the relationship and having the ability to moderate daily life for the kids, or to break the relationship and not be able to moderate the interaction with the NPD parent.

Tough choice.