Author Topic: Narcissism in Closeted Homosexuals  (Read 11889 times)

WarriorGirl

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Narcissism in Closeted Homosexuals
« on: January 21, 2004, 01:56:11 PM »
Have any of you had experiences with this phenomenon? Because as it is just understood that the Narcissist has made up his/her personality and makes it up minute by minute as they go along, is it possible that he suffered severe psycho-sexual trauma as a kid and therefore somehow was led to believe by a Narcissist Father or something that being WHO HE REALLY WAS would result in shame and witholding of love? Whaddyathink???

tayana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
    • http://tayana.blogspot.com
Narcissism in Closeted Homosexuals
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2004, 03:41:13 PM »
I gave a little thought before replying to this post, and I debated whether or not I should.  I figured though that I might be able to give you some idea.  My mother is a narcissist, and I for many, many years was a closeted lesbian.  Only in the last year or so, when I started dealing with the emotional trauma my mother inflicted on me, have I started to come out.

For other people, the answer to your question might be different, I can only answer based on my own experience.  For years, my mother made me feel as though there was something wrong with me because I wasn't interested in dating or finding a man to take care of me.  I had my own goals, and I struggled to hang onto those goals in the face of her abuse.  I preferred to hang out with female friends when I was in high school, but instead of understand why I preferred to be with girls rather than boys, my mother convinced me it was because I was too shy, too ugly, too fat, my friends scared the boys away, too smart (boys don't like smart women), and a host of other comments about why I couldn't get a date.  Never was the subject of homosexuality brought up, or the possibility of it until I went away to college, and then in an environment where I wasn't being constantly told something was wrong with me, I did start to question my sexuality.  Except I was so terrified of how my parents would react that I repressed my feelings and continued to believe something was wrong with me.  I ended up with a man who was just like my mother and who used me and then left me.  

And after that, I constantly heard what a failure I was.  How I needed to find a man to take care of me and my son?  HOw I really needed to stop pining for my son's father (I wasn't).  And on and on.  My mother became obsessed with my sex life, making bizarre comments about my reading material, TV shows I watch, etc.  Until I really felt like I had no business dating anyone because I wasn't worth it.  

I don't know if it's true for all narcissists, but my mother is terribly homophobic, and even in healthy families coming out is extremely stressful.  The constant fear of being discovered and having your family hate you exists for people with normal, supportive families.  To come out to a narcissistic parent literally makes me sick to think about.  Based on the stalking and other things my mother has done in the past, I can just imagine what lengths she would go to if she found out that I were gay.  That is part of the fear that keeps me at least partly closeted.  The other part is that I was raised believing that homosexuality was sinful, shameful and dirty.  I grew up thinking that anything to do with my body was dirty and that same-sex relationships were the dirtiest of the bunch.  That message sets up a great deal of internal homophobia that has to be overcome before any sort of real healling can be accomplished.  Even though I had lots of gay or lesbian friends, when I started to realize that I was also gay, I had an extreme crisis of identity and kept asking "Why?"  And then I could just imagine the reaction of my family to that, especially when my mother regularly makes homophobic comments to me.

I don't know if that answers your question.  The things I've reading about homosexuality and narcissism have actually made me very depressed, and I wasn't sure if you were asking about the effect on an ACON or another narcissist.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Portia

  • Guest
Narcissism in Closeted Homosexuals
« Reply #2 on: January 22, 2004, 07:22:26 AM »
38

tayana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
    • http://tayana.blogspot.com
Narcissism in Closeted Homosexuals
« Reply #3 on: January 22, 2004, 09:45:00 AM »
Portia,

Quote
I don’t know if you wanted a reply but I kinda got the impression your post was a small outing and if so: great!


I read Warrior Girl's post and felt the need to reply, basically.  It was a bit of an outing, but I've gotten much better at outing myself.  Not at work.  Not to my family.  But pretty much to everyone else.  For me, there's always a sense of "Was that really wise?" when I mention the L word, because I never really know what the reaction will be.


Quote
But even she tends to stay clear of lesbians. I wonder why? Fear? Is it perhaps that lesbians (who are out) have obviously made that big choice (to be out), know themselves pretty well and, compared to an N, have a certain amount of self-esteem and confidence that N’s try to fake? What would your mother say if you told her? Would it be the typical “what did I do wrong?”?



I don't know why she'd stay clear of lesbians, but I can tell you that coming out usually provides and enormous boost of self-esteem.  I've been happier in the last year, than in the last ten.  And most of the lesbians I know who are out and proud, do have a very self-confident manner about them and most definitely know exactly who they are.   I'd like to know why your mother flirts with gay men.  Does she think she can reform them?

What would my mother say if she knew?  A good part of me thinks she already knows, and is just in denial.  I've thought for a long time about what her reaction would be, and I think I've finally got it down pretty well.  

She would start off with, "You're just saying this because that son of a ***** broke your heart.  You just haven't found the right person.  You need to get out more and find a good man.  A good man would change your mind."  Then we'd progress to, "THis is a sin.  You know what God said about queers.  You'll go to hell."  Then probably we'd be down to, "You can't expose that baby to this."  Which would probably result in her trying to take my son away.  And then she would probably refuse to speak to me, or else she'd start stalking me to make sure I wasn't doing anything "Immoral" in front of my son.  Her last homophobic comment to me when I mentioned that a character on a TV show I liked was gay was, "I have a real problem with those gays."  No futher elaboration.

It's hard to come out even without a messed out family.  Even though most families would have a period of "what did I do wrong?" many eventually come around.  It depends on the person and it depends on how comfortable they are with their sexuality.  It's hard because you're not sure who's going to deny you a job, a place to live, or harrass you because of who you are, and there are times when it's safer to be in the closet than out.  The woman you worked with whose partner wasn't out--you didn't say if her partner worked with you or not, but it's possible she wasn't ready to take the next step or that she might have been afraid of the consequences.  It's different for everyone.

Quote
No-one can “hate you” for being gay.


Very true.  And I haven't read Armistead Maupin's "Letter to Mama," although he is one of my favorite authors.

Quote
Are you sure she isn’t gay and wants to catch you out to out herself?!! Or does she just get some weird sexual kicks from stalking and her shameless curiosity about your reading habits etc?


The thought has occurred to me, actually.  

She did stalk me when I was in college.  IF I didn't call, she'd call and call and call until she got to talk to me.  She'd threaten to drive up and bring me home, take my truck away.  She'd call the dean, my professors, and my work to make sure I was doing what I was supposed to.  She'd call around to my friends when she couldn't find me.  And she still does it.  She'll call me at work and get mad if I'm out on call (I'm a computer tech, I do work in the field).  

Thanks for your post.  :)
[/quote]
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt

Portia

  • Guest
Narcissism in Closeted Homosexuals
« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2004, 10:45:35 AM »
wow, your last paragraph makes me sigh. I don't have a control-freak N mother like this. I'm hoping someone who knows about this will reply to you - and lots of people here do know about this behaviour! But my goodness, she wants to control you doesn't she? And all for her own selfish needs - nothing to do with how you are! Am now offline to reply to your other points (and just maybe get off this message board which is fast becoming my addiction)...P

Portia

  • Guest
Narcissism in Closeted Homosexuals
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2004, 11:11:59 AM »
edit

tayana

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 933
    • http://tayana.blogspot.com
Narcissism in Closeted Homosexuals
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2004, 04:53:48 PM »
Quote
Hope I’m not stereotyping too much here but you get the picture?


Yes, I get the picture.  My mom does that kind of thing with everyone.  She used to be an interior decorator, and she'd just go on and on about this person and that person, and she'd be all nicey-nice to them, then come home and talk about them.  She flirted with all of the men, and alienated many of the women, espeically younger, more attractive women.  Most of her clients were older people who were buying retirement homes.  So, I do see what your mom is doing.  She builds them up to make herself feel good, then tramples all over the people closest to her.

Quote
A question: when she says "I have a real problem with those gays" have you asked her to elaborate? Would she say more?


She would probably elaborate if I asked, and I've thought about it.  I just decided I really don't want to hear anymore bigotted remarks from her.  I tried and tried to educate her about AIDS, and I never succeeded.  She made a comment one time about getting AIDS from a toilet seat, and I told her that was almost impossible.  Yet, she got stuck with a used hyperdermic needle and never thought anything of it.  So, her remarks about gay people in general are the same.  I can ask and talk all I want, but her opinion will remain unchanged.

Quote
Have you tried setting those boundaries? Like perhaps saying ‘Mom, it’s better if you only call me at work if there’s an emergency. I’m working and (I’ve been told? My boss has mentioned? Or some other white lie) it’s not professional to take lots of personal calls”. Have you tried this? Well done on breaking away to where you are now!



I've tried.  It doesn't work.  She doesn't listen to me, really.  She refuses to see me in any sort of adult light.  Anytime I do "adult" type things, she gets hysterical.  I went on vacation with a friend and took my son, she didn't speak to me for nearly three weeks, then had the nerve of accusing me of neglecting my son while we were away, and even planted the idea in his head that I was going to leave him in the hotel room alone.  When I bought my car, she insisted that I go through her insurance man, and when I didn't she blew up, told me I didn't know what I was doing, etc, that went on for a week or so, then she bought me an expensive gift to make up for it.  So, when I try to set boundaries, she either doesn't respect them or else blows the whole situation out of proportion.  I've decided it's just easier to make her mad and leave it at that.  My father tried to get me to talk to her over the vacation deal, and I refused.  I said I wasn't the one with the problem.  She had to get over it on her own.  

Thanks for the compliment.  I'm hoping to break away a little more in the future, or at the very least get the woman to see that I'm all grown up now and I don't need her to hold my hand.
http://tayana.blogspot.com

You gain strength, courage and confidence by every experience in which you
really stop to look fear in the face. You must do the thing you think you cannot
do.
-Elanor Roosevelt