It's been a long while since I've been here - trauma so I'm back

[Hopalong]

Hey Kelly,
It just sounds enmeshed. You're spending your precious energy and brain-time plotting your next strategy on the battlefield. It consumes you and you have a precious life.

Amazingly, there is more to it that your deep battle with your mother. If you think of the snappiest comebacks, etc....it's momentary. But...if you start working through your issues and your pain in therapy and in support groups, or whatever setting works for you--you begin to change your life, not just your dialogue.

You can do this. You can heal and begin to release the obsession with her. And then, she won't have the power you are now giving her.

As to finding good women mentors...again, women's support groups exist in most communities. You really need to get OUT, I think.

Keep at it! BTW, the book sounds GREAT and so is your thinking about OA...bravo, bravo! This is the sort of direction that saves and transforms people. First steps as simple as these get the healing engine going.

You can do it.

Hops

[Overcomer]

Yes, it has always been enmeshed.  I have come so far.  You wouldn't believe the power my mother had over me for most of my life.  I couldn't make a deciion without her approval.  It took me blowing up - I mean REALLY losing it to break that kind of control.  The fact that I am with her almost 24/7 is what gets to me.

I am doing my Arbonne business and it is coming right along.  I need to hit it hard to finally make enough money to walk away.  Does anyone know of a job that gives you lots of flexibility AND you make a lot of money?  I just need to be able to be a good mom and have enough money to not work with my mom.  My husband wishes he made enough that I could stay home!!!  Sometimes I think I am doing so well with Arbonne but have had problems getting people to "get it" and try to make their lives better.  When they get it, it helps me.  So until I get some people who are serious about making some major dollars than I am stuck with mom!

God help me!!  And believe me, I have praying that He will help me.  I still cannot believe that a loving God would allow me to have such poor self esteem and not help me to rise above!!!

[Hopalong]

Substitute teaching? (Done by 3:00...)
Ummmm...babysitting?
A lot of people are frantic for good childcare...

Hope someone else will have some good ideas for you.
You have business skillls...maybe you could do freelance bookkeeping for small businesses?

Hops

[Hops]

Hi Kelly,
There's a lot about Arbonne on the net...good and bad. I have a friend who's tried it for a few years now. I'll email her and ask how it's going.
To me it smacks of a company that relies on creating an artificial family with evangelical-style training to get reps to sell people a lot of stuff to put on their faces...
bottom line is, the bottom line isn't for the psyched-up Avon ladies (so to speak).

Have you considered other approaches besides that kind of marketing?
How about an EBay business? People can do fantastically well by buying interesting things at rummage sales and reselling them...some make a LOT. And all you need is a digital camera, a white sheet, and the book EBay for Dummies.

Just a thought...
Hops

[Overcomer]

Great ideas!!  Sometimes I think network marketing works for some but not all.............

[Overcomer]

Well, my mom and I had a conversation today and she said she is going to back off (yeah, right!!)  I applied to be a traveling trainer for a retail training organization.  If they only travel one or two days a week, I think it would be a good job.  As long as I make enough money and am not away from my family for a long time.............................I just wish I could have my cake and eat it too!

[Hopalong]

Good for you, Kelly!!!

How about just taking it one week at a time?

You're earning your cake, and you'll probably find you like it better even if it's less fancy.

Hops

[kelly as guest]

Thanks!!  I took the day off so I can regroup!!

[Overcomer]

I thought I would just add to this post............................my aunt went on vacation so I sat my mom down and told her everything I did not like about her and my aunt at work.  At first I was apprehensive and I told her so because I said when I am concerned about something she says "Pshaw........"  Now isn't "Pshaw" a totally invalidating thing?  When you say "Pshaw" to someone doesn't that mean - that is wrong - that is bogus - that is stupid?  So anyway I had my conversation and told her I either wanted her to leave or I would leave................so a few days go by and I get an email from her that says "we are going to have to learn to work with each other as long as we are partners and I do not want you to insult me by saying I invalidate you........."  I guess I could have endured the email if she hadn't used the word "insult."  I insulted her???  She's the one who said "Pshaw" to me..............and it made me mad and I told her it did and she says I insulted her by saying she invalidated me??????

[Hopalong]

Kelly,
A thought to try?.

Your mother does not have the power to invalidate you, unless you give it to her.

She can say Pshaw and you can say:

Pshaw means you are dismissing what I have said, so I will talk to you another time.

(And walk away...). Repeat. With calm. Under-reacting. Calm. You're taking yourself out of something disrespectful. (Just be sure you are courteous while you do it, so you are modeling respect.)

Every single time she says it.

Not all, but it's amazing...some parents can actually learn to change at least some habits.

But what matters more is you learning to not take it in...when she says something insensitive and doesn't appreciate you. If YOU become loving to yourself, do the work of learning how (it IS a real feeling, not an idea)...she can Pshaw until her lips chap and it won't harm you.

What can you change? Your reactions. That is freedom.

Hops

[Overcomer]

Whoa, Hops!!  THAT was good.  I get it.  I can confront her invalidation rationally.  Love you for saying this.  It was like a lightbulb moment.  Still her invalidation will hurt a bit...................it's an ugly wound.................taking years to heal.  BUT, I like it.  My ex husband read a book called "The Art of Verbal Warfare....." or something like that and he was a master at throwing stuff back in my face in a calm manner.  It infuriated me.  I can only imagine that this will do the same to my mom!

Thanks!!

[jordanspeeps]

Hi Kelly

Tiffany here.  I was just reading your post in Dr. G's thread and you mentioned how things were currently, "us vs. them" right now with you, your mom, your aunt, and your bookkeeper.  I tend to be an anxiety-driven worrier about things like this, as I have been in your shoes, in business with my Nmother, that is.  I'm trying not to do it [worry] so much anymore and I don't mean to upset you unduly, but my question is: Where do you see things going in the near and not-so-near future with the business?  You mentioned the "smoke and mirrors" aspect to it; do you think this will present itself as a problem, eventually? 

Has your mother or aunt ever violated your trust or been proven to have a lack of integrity?  Business is tough and often we lose sight of what is ethical or for what we are accountable.  I would hate for you to bear the brunt of a bitter business battle either between you and your mom or worse, the two of you and some higher authority, like your creditors, unjustly.  I'm just curious to know where your head is with the subject. For some reason, I find your story to be on my mind, it's probably because of the similarities, and I think I want to see all turn out well for you.  I hope you keep posting.

Take care
Tiff

[Overcomer]

Tiff:  Well, I was surprised to see this thread up on the top again....I thought it was a dead horse.  Here's the scoop:

My mom is a super-ego..............she was very successful in a career.................made tons of money.  My aunt was her assistant.  When my mom retired from that company they gave my aunt a piece of my mom's pie and she was in that position for about 15 years.  Well, she had been feeling the pressure for the last few years, not cutting the mustard, etc.  So she was let go.

She didn't even try to get another job......she came right to us and asked us for a job (red flag................easy way out..........)  Wanted to be on the management team.

Well, my mom has always had enough money to put into the business when we were short of cash (it's retail.....) Our sales were great but we just didn't know how to manage a business.

So mom backs off and me and two other ladies ran it last year.  It finally made a profit....first time in 12 years.  Bookkeeper was very important in that.  So we hire my aunt and my mom steps back in and starts acting like a big shot.  She walks around saying things like "I can do whatever I want (spend money) I own the store!"  Meanwhile aunt is a slacker and the bookkeeper says "she knows who is buttering her bread!!"  (meaning her sister - the big shot.....)  Bookkeeper resents aunt and lets her know it with jabs, etc.  I finally said to bookkeeper - you know, stop pressuring her because she runs right to my mom and whines and mom comes down on bookkeeper.  So it has become "us vs them."  I even told my aunt today that since she has been there my mom has been posturing to impress her or something.  I seriously think my aunt takes this poor me (victim) stance and my mom would put the business in jeopardy to protect her helpless (connving) sister......

Sick!!  So I am on a roll in my other business and I just keep praying for patience while I build it because it will give me great satisfaction to go in (with bookkeeper) and say, "OK, girls, run it!  Bye!!"

[jordanspeeps]

kelly,

Sick!!  So I am on a roll in my other business and I just keep praying for patience while I build it because it will give me great satisfaction to go in (with bookkeeper) and say, "OK, girls, run it!  Bye!!

Well, the best of blessings on this new endeavor.  Won't you have such pride and joy to know that your future is not so tied up with your mother's and aunt's.  Who knows what will become of them and the business.  The way they relate to one another sounds like my mother and one of her sisters who've been in secret competition with one another since they were children.  It's odd the way they pretend they don't even care what the other is doing, but somehow they always seem to be "up under" each other. It's like they carry on this charade that they really love each other and my grandmother, but when I'm alone with my mother, all she does is complain about her sister and how she doesn't really do things "right."  Sometimes, I think she was raising, or shall I say "grooming" me to be 'better' than my aunt, who used college education, beauty pageants, and creative writing to one-up my mother throughout life.  My mother was the nurse, businesswoman, entrepreneur, with a husband and four children and they spent a lifetime competing but in an opposite kind of way. Although my mother never complimented me on good grades or winning pageants or essay contests, she never failed to share a proud moment with her sister, who would often scoff in ignorance.
 
It seems like your mother and aunt chose to stay close to one another and have taken on roles in order to relate to one another. You can guarantee, they'll be at one another's throats or more subtly, holding secret rage and resentment to one another sometime in the future if not already.   I do feel for you, kelly, and it's sad that their childhood drama is playing out to your detriment.  But it doesn't have to be a complete wash-out.  You'll do well with this endeavor, especially if you are patient, as you mentioned.  40 is the new 30 they say, so you practically have your whole life in front of you, girl!

Best to you
Tiff

[Overcomer]

Yeah, I've even heard that 50 is the new 30s.....my gma is 91 and I am 46 so I really do have the second half of my life left.

Well, my aunt is not motivated like my mom.......she likes to ride on my mom's coat tails so she can get some of the inheritance when my mom is gone.  Aunt talks poorly about mom but sucks up to mom.  Mom has this insatiable desire to protect everyone from ME.  I have the desire to protect everyone from HER.  But this is the first time that she has worked in a place where people have figured her out and her fascade has been exposed.  But she doesn't care - afterall, they are the little people.  They mean nothing to her!!!  I mean nothing to her.  She is only concerned about herself - and now, to protect poor abused aunt.  Aunt has worked for use for 7 months.  She has taken three weeks of vacation and scheduled them right behind conventions (that she had no business going to but mom wanted to strut her stuff in front of aunt, so aunt had to be there to see how important mom was.............)  She's supposed to be in charge of people but she conveniently hides in the back room or takes weeks and weeks off.  Funny how she is getting more vacation than the next one..........oh well, I could go on and on and on........