Chronic complaining personality traits

[DivineSunshine]

mum,
 
I really really love Eckhart Tolle!  I have his Power of Now book and have read it and reread it several times.  It brings me peace.  I have it and several otherso f his on audio as well!  I was not aware he had this new one out!  I'll be checking that out for sure, as I am intersted in just about anything he says and the way he says it!

Thanks for the reminder, I haven't read  him for a while.  You must be the reminder angel I needed to hear today to find some peace, which is always the result from his work.

Namaste,

Sunny

[cats paw]

Mum,

   Enjoyed your info and explanation about the "pain body" and that everyone has one.  I think it speaks to what I was wondering about- the differences in the complainers.
   My best friend complains a lot, but she's not N. 

   I've toyed with the idea of reading Ekhart Tolle, but now, I'll make it a point.  Would you recommend "A New Earth" as a stand alone read, or would it be better after reding his previous writings?

[Gaining Strength]

I had an experience yesterday that really has caused me pause - just because it was such a strong example of the title.  Yesterday I went to my Garden Club meeting.  It is a large group of ladies that my mother and my father's mother belonged to and many of their social friends.  Most everyone in it has many millions of dollars.  I am certain that I am the lone poor person.  Next year our club is hosting a regional meeting and we will be spending upwards of $70,000 to $80,000 to do so for 250 -300 people. 

The program yesterday was someone I grew up with.  her mother and my mother were lifelong friends.  Her mother was very wealthy and died many years ago making this person very wealthy.  They are from the family that owns the local Coca-Cola bottling company.  This person has started a magazine about flowers.  Only one issue has come out.  She hopes it will be a national magazine and they have 1100 subscriptions in 37 states so far.

Last night I was telling my mother about it and she was very critical.  "Was it interesting?"  "What did she talk about?  What is there to say about a magazine?"  "Well I'm just not interested."  It was just amazing - suddenly I was thrown back into some kind of malstrom - one that sucked the lifeblood out of hope and joy, one that would not allow for dreams pursued that waited for every good thing that came along so it could be shredded. 

The forces that have worked against me are popping up at me in every direction.  It is helpful to begin to see them and less fearful and powerful than I would have expected.  I have so much more to explore here but have to get son to school.  I really have so much more to put together. - gs

[Overcomer]

Oh g s  I relate to this.  Why is it whenever we think something is cool our moms can turn it into nothing?  My daughter dropped not of college and wants to go to beauty school.  She told my mom and immediately got the wind knocked out of her sail.  I Knew my mom could ruin it for her.  Now she has to try to convince her grandma that it is ok to be a hair stylist.

[Gaining Strength]

You know overcomer I am so close to getting something.  Between the original post, what Mum wrote about Ekhart Tolle's concept of "pain people", your post and something going on in my mind I am getting it about the negativism.  It's sort of like, "If it's not mine then I'm not for it." 

I am keeping my focus on the fact that N's have experienced severe emotional trauma and comparing that to my own experiences of growing up in N family that seemed normal and appeared to live the good life (even to me.)  I am getting why I have been feeling so powerless for the past several years.  Part of my power came out of the role of critic.  And then it rolled into a sense of utter helplessness to be critical of everything.  But my mother's response yesterday was what I lived in my entire life.  It comes out of a need to put down that which is big and newsy that is not mine.  While others may glom onto such exciting things - those just outside become critical and put it down.  I have participated in that same culture enough to understand it.

Now I see that part of my powerlessness has been in growing up with parents who held ALL the money.  Never shared except drips and drabs and yet if I went out to do something they were never there for support or encouragement but rather to detract and put down.  It is only in understanding Narcissism that I am able to make any sense out of the non-sense of my parents working against me psychologically. 

I can tell that I am getting closer to breaking through.  The pain of it is indescribable. 

I'm going to try to put it in writing.  If there was something that I wanted to do that was part of my development growing up my parents might support it if it did not interfere with their life or their image in any way.  My father was a big tennis player so I took up tennis.  But when I wanted to play tennis tournaments (which entailed traveling) my parents put their foot down even though their freinds and relatives chidren went to the tournaments.  After a while they relented.  As I became more competitive my father would raise the bar.  If I developed a killer serve he would begin demanding that I be able to hit a specific square a specific % of time.  In other words the perfection demanded was too great to meet and the criticism that followed was unreal.  This happened over and over in many, many areas until eventually I shut down and no longer coped.  When I struggled and needed help I could not ask them because that would be fodder for punishing humiliation rather than constructive assistance or advice.  This aspect has never changed.

Here I sit today, struggling financially in indescribable ways and yet my parents, both of whom have enormous amounts of money are not willing to help.  Consequently, I feel not only powerless but a sickening unworthiness.  Which translates on a deep psychological way to feeling helpless - that no matter what I do I will still be criticized and I will fall short in a humiliating way.  I have written here before about being set up to do things without being given the resources to accomplish this and then being punished for failing.

I am beginning to understand why I have had such a difficult time getting on my feet.  It feels impossible and I finally understand why.  I am still trapped in a psychological prison and it is excrusiatingly painful.  I truly believe that I must completely rid myself of critisizing others and truly holding my parents in some sort of place of compassion without letting them destroy me.

I am so close to getting this gordian knot untangled and finding my way out.  I am so close.

[DivineSunshine]

GS,

I know what your talking about concerning your parents not helping and then criticising you if you can't measure up.  Withholding help.  My parents don't have a lot financially, but won't help either emotionally (which would be all I need really) or financially and only sit back and laugh if I fall on my face.  They laugh at and misjudge  everyone, it's bizarre becaue they really have nothing to boast about themselves except for their own self-righteousness (really religious people).  I guess that is their narcissism---everyone else is so stupid except THEM, you know. 
Heavens, wonder why I don't want to have anything to do with them.  I won't tell them anything about my life--never have--- because I didn't want to be made fun of and judged and gossiped about behind my back.  They really set me up to fail in life with no guidance, no self-esteem, no financial support, nothing.  Nothing at all.  Only critcising behind my back.  Basically ignored but expected to be perfect at the same time.  Trying to be perfect to get noticed, or at least not condemned.

Yes, Cb, it was a gift, in some ways, and such awful things to do in many other ways that I wrestle with it a lot.  I have tried NOT to judge and be bitter and it has been a struggle for sure.  Do I "forgive" them?-----yes, basically and thank them for my self reliance, but I don't respect them for the neglect and I don't wish for the torture to continue any longer which I know it will if I go around them again.

 I am expected to be a certain way, with certain ideals, and no opinion of anything. Carbon copies of them. I even got a full scholarship to college and my mother just told me shame on me for not getting a job in high school to pay for college (????) instead of playing my sports (which is what I got the scholarship for).  She is really impossible.  Since I didn't have a job (except for summers) she refused to help me with any needs or expenses I had during the year.  Nothing, sometimes I begged for entrance fees to play sports or to get personal hygiene neccessities.
Mom would not even go with me to sign my scholarship" intent" papers, I had to beg my dad to go with me since I needed an adult present. Weird cause he never watched me play any sport or do any event ever in 10 years of sporting accomplishments and constant events and practices to which I found my own way there.  Washed my uniforms, paid my dues, daily practice---none of it.  Neither was my mother at any of them.  I walked everywhere.  I basically took care of my self in every way, brought home good grades, trophies, awards, certificates, anything I could win, but.......nothing.  Nothing.  At least they didn't force me to do it, I guess.

I guess what I am saying and I don't want to make it sound like bragging, is that I get the parent thing you wrote about is definitely something I can relate to,  and I guess it triggered me this morning.  Think I will have to write in  my journal about it a it more soon.  Thought I had put it behind me....

But hey, my NH's mother has just given my husband everything he ever ask for money-wise since we have been married that he thinks she is the bank.  She married money on purpose her sixth marriage for security and has bilked her poor elderly husband out of hundreds of thousands giving money to her lazy, whining screw-up kids.  My husband seems to think she is the bank.  She is just enabling him.  And controlling him.  I am grateful for the help because he has been so lazy and made so many finanicial mistakes and blunders over the years we have had no choice to accept help from her--it was that or starve and freeze.  But my point is here, that besides her keeping score and holding it over his head for the last 17 years......she has created a monster 40 year-old who does not know how to stand on his own two feet and be self-sufficient, therefore having done him NO FAVORS at all.  I just curse her now because she has set him up to be her puppet and to control him for a lifetime.  I think, maybe, if I had my choice, I would rather be forced to stand on my own two feet even and have a backbone to handle life----even if it makes me mad and hurts, than be crippled by "help" and the payback expected from the helpers" who really turn out to be wolves in sheeps clothing, IMO.

And finally, your desription of your father is exactly what my NH is doing to our teen daughters, even down to the tennis which he forces them to play since that is what he is interested in.    He would do the same thing.  In fact, he has pushed them into music since they were young and they are now having solos and special performances because he has forced them to "be the best" (like he thinks he is) and when they need special rides to their solos and concerts he is mad (complains) and a nuisance about taking them or makes them late or upsets them before they perform enough that they sometimes mess up, and then he is angry and embarrssed by them. And lets them know it.   He makes such a jerk of himself "helping" them with their upcoming solos, that they are so nervous to mess up in front of him that they can hardly get through it.  My 13 y/o actually started crying at a performance she had to do last month right after I broke my leg and could not attend to run interference for her and comfort her in spite of his nonsense.  Which is what I usually do--calm them down enough they can perform.  She cried through the entire performance, he taped it, I watched it after and it broke my heart.  She was just too nervous with him there expecting her to be perfect.  G-d, I hate him for that---and the dumbest thing ever is that if I were to bring it to his attention, he would not even GET IT!  He would blame all of us for being overly-sensitive and ridiculous and PMSing or whatever, but he never sees the damage he is inflicting and how much he hurts everyone around him.  Denies it--calls us all crazy and stupid basically.  They crap of it is, that when I divorce him, I won't be able to save them from it when he is havin his "time" with them.  He will bully them and I won't be able to comfort them and help them cope in any way, and the thought of that has kept me here for waaaaay too long. 

I am so sorry you guys, everyone, I didn't mean to hijack and go on and on, but this triggered me I guess.  And I needed to vent a bit on this this morning apparently....shoulda started a new thread!

Good luck with dealing with this, I am rooting for ya since you are just about to untangle the knot, so to speak. I hope so.   You are way ahead of me!  I usually just try to ignore the crap (with the folks anyway).  NH keeps me too busy trying to deal with his antics!

Well, thanks for listening.

Namaste,

Sunny

[Overcomer]

OH G S And all...I think you and I lived parallel lives.  My mom uses the word entitled all the time, "we would not want you to think you are entitled to anything."  No we prefer to watch you struggle while we wittle Away at your self esteem.  We will watch you try and fail and then we will not trust you because you have never proved yourself worthy.  Yes I neglected to raise you worthy of a bright beautiful child and now woman but I could never tell you that because it might give you a big head

[Overcomer]

And besides I could never tell you you were good and honorable and a great parent and a nice person and worthy-no you are not worthy of me because only I get the limelight.  Only I get to be the one so sorry I have to step on you on my way to glory-you are not like me so do not think I am going to reward you for having a brain or thinking differently than I.  After all, dont you know who I am?

[mum]

HI.
A couple of thoughts:
GS: it's really brave of you share your untangling...and as my niece (former severely addicted drug addict) told me: Pain seems to be the portal to great awakening...I'm sorry the pain is so intense. Hang in there.
Sunny (et all):
re: your parents: What the H$#L???? I am amazed at your resiliency. I am always appalled by the Nparents some people have had here. Maybe my children will look back some day and notice that about thier dad as well. You say your NH, are you still married?

Cat's Paw: I would read "The Power of Now", without a doubt. If you can get it on cd or tape, even better, as he has this great, softspoken German accent! Actually that book helped me soooo much when I was desperately unhappy and "stuck". "A New Earth" does not need so much to follow that book, I think you could read them any which way, but since the Power of Now is so out of the box, it might be a better introduction to start with.

love,
Mum
 

[Gaining Strength]

Wow Divine Sunshine - I am so glad you had the courge to write about your parents.  It is such an incredible experience that very few people understand at all - understand or believe.  Unless you have experienced life with narcissistic people it is impossible to understand.

I am so glad you shared you experience as painful as it sounds.  It helps so much to know that other people have experienced something similar to what I have experienced. 

CB - It is so funny to read your encouragement.  I was thinking about you eariler tonight, thinking about what a wonderful employee you will make and how fortunate someone will be to have you, how I wished I could find someone like you to work with.  Infact i wish several of us could team up and work together.  I may be a little idealistic but I think we could build a great business and provide a nurturing work environment.

I am beginning to move from being resentful for my mother and her behavior to a positiion of teaching her.  My mother and my son and my 15 year old nephew went to Meet the Robinson.  My mother would be in this hyper mode where she was harsh and critical and over reactive to everything my nephew did.  When i called her on it she backed down into a pitiful mode.  I just stopped her right there and said, "Look, you are not going to be mean and you are not going to be pitiful."  And lo and behold she agreed.  Later, we were all at her house and I was upstair when my little boy came up to tell me that Grandmother is being mean to my nephew.  I went downstairs and away from the children and asked her not to be mean to my nephew and her answer was, "But HE was being mean."  "Well" I said, "you can still correct him nicely. "  She thought for a moment and said, "I guess I could try."

I almost felt sorry for her for a moment.

I need someone to be nice to me.  i have this place.  I find that if I am nice then it changes me.  So I am trying.  It's harder than it should be but it is worth it.

[Gaining Strength]

sleepless night last night - leads to slight depression and darkness today.  So much resentment came to light.  So very painful.  Hope to release it.  Glad to get some clarity on it.  I believe that help resentment is dangerous and destructive.  But it hides so carefully behind things.

Resentful of the very things written about on another post - the giving by choice but not giving by request or what is needed.  It is a whole issue of power and powerlessness.  Ns need power.  I want to claim my power back but am too tired today.  Ready to release resentment - hope it all will come to the surface to be released.

Thought about what Margo said - I am thankful for the friendships here and for the dialogue here.  This helps me feel not so terribly alone in this pursuit. 

I am sad today.  I am lonely today and I am fearful today.  And I am thankful that I can be honest and open about that and not have everyone around me distance themselves.  Seesaw up tomorrow.

[CB123]

GS,

I can tell you that lack of sleep really skews your perception.  Be kind to yourself today.  Don't expect yourself to be "up".  Try to get a nap--or if not that, something really relaxing. 

Resentment and anger are like a really strong drug.  Given in small doses it can be good for what ails you.  Too big of a dose and you are done for the day.  Chronic overdosing will kill you. 

Thinking of you today, GS...

CB

[Overcomer]

SORRY ABOUT MY SARCASM EARLIER!  I just get so exasperated at all our parents.  I am going to try what you did, GS, But I do not know he my mom would allow me to tell her she is not going to be mean or pitiful.  She would give me her how dare look.  I am sleepy too but not despairing-only thankful my busy schedule is over and I have a day to veg!

[Gaining Strength]

CB - I am so glad that this resentment made itself clear.  It doesn't surprise me but I wasn't aware of how deep it was concerning my father.  Just old stuff surpressed for years.  Because I was not sleeping well last night I would awaken and feel a tension.  In attempts to go back to sleep I would try to get at what was bothering me and in that hazy, exhaustion where my filters were low I would realize there was a bucket full of resentment.  This process repeated itself several different times through out the wee hours.  The sense of resentment and the memories and dreams all intermingled until it was 7:00am and no hope of more sleep.

Now I get to let go of that dark matter and hope that what more there is will find its way to the surface to be dispatched of as well.

Overcomer - one big difference between your relationship with your mother and my relationship with mine is that my mother thinks she needs me and is very clear that I will walk away if she is too unpleasant.  I did a year ago when she refused to make an effort to address her passive aggressive behavior.  I quit being around her for 4 or 5 months until she went to see a psychologist and then make specific changes.

Your mother hasn't gotten to a point where she "needs" you and so she thinks she can treat you unkindly.  Part of the reason I did it was that I still react so strongly to her behavior.  When she is unkind and judgemental my nerves go bonkers - I become anxious and the tension gets high.  I have recently come to see that she gets this way when the situation is such that she feels out of control and has zero coping skills to help correct things - no humor, no gentle, kind redirection and teaching - just harsh, loud demands.  It's like fingernails on the chalk board for me - so I told her to stop and she got all pitiful - that gross passive aggressive stuff like I had just beaten her - so I told her to stop that too.  It worked for an hour or two.  She just has zero coping skills and I have decided to have compassion on her for my sake, because it will help release my resentment towards her for a lifetime of mistreatment.

[Overcomer]

I seriously cannot see her ever needing me but someone once said "be nice to your children, they get to choose what nursing home you will go to."