Author Topic: ‘Happiness’, delusion, Zen & books  (Read 9710 times)

Sela

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Re: ‘Happiness’, delusion, Zen & books
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2007, 09:42:56 AM »
I still don't think I've done a good enough job there.

What I was trying to get at is that if you are entering the realm of kidding yourself, thus becoming "healthier" by deluding yourself, there is another possibility.   It could be that you are leaving behind what you have been taught so far, (by hopeless parents), and entering a happier place, which might seem like a delusion (especially compared to what you've known so far).  By other people's definition, that may be considered any number of things but what I'm saying is....it's your opinion that matters.

I agree that it's better to be alone and aware, even if it's unhealthy and I bet we agree on that.  However, I don't believe that to be the reality.  Aware, imo, is healthy and there are plenty of aware people, so it's not as lonely as it might first seem, but the training received in childhood may not promote or allow one to notice them.

Hope this helps P.

Sela

Portia

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Re: ‘Happiness’, delusion, Zen & books
« Reply #16 on: June 20, 2007, 07:38:29 AM »
Hiya Sela

Job done, thank you! I appreciate your thinking time there. I felt uncomfortable, as though we were talking at cross purposes. Sometimes I want to feel understood by someone else, for my sake (to see if I'm making sense to the external world). Sometimes I want to feel that someone else understands me, because I perceive it may help them, from my own warped perspective. Sometimes i think that someone else might be deliberately mis-hearing me (as it were) to challenge my thinking, or to allow me to defend my view (and demonstrate assertiveness). All in the human mix and not unusual but worth saying those things? Well there it is anyway.

I was going to get somewhat assertive earlier, and I tried in my own way, and I'm letting it go. It doesn't matter to me. This is the question: when do we observe another person and file away observations for future use (entirely for our own benefit), and when do we decide that an observation could be aired for the possible benefit of the observed person? In real life, that's a lot simpler. In cyberspace i can't see your eyes! It's very limited (here), but in some ways hugely beneficial too, because we allow ourselves (all of us, I imagine) so much liberation. The online persona is a vivid slice of the whole, real person, almost a caricature perhaps? How's that for off the point!

Thanks Sela:
it's your opinion that matters
Yes and I started this thread because I was busily questioning my gut reaction to a few books. And I guess there's that idea (thanks Ami) of separating the N effects from the normal life effects. If I reject some idea very quickly (and I do that a lot), sometimes I might go and question that gut reaction (was it a received idea or was it really my own?). I guess I'm just figuring out what my 'own' ideas actually are. It's still hard work sometimes! Wondering if there's that old tape saying "Of course that book/course/degree/painting/idea is rubbish - what money will it make you?" - to put it in its bluntest terms. Stepdad was such a hard critic of anything that scared him (I scared him). On the other hand, I'm not frightened of new stuff, I just know a lot of stuff is not to my taste and I know it fast sometimes.

I agree that it's better to be alone and aware, even if it's unhealthy and I bet we agree on that. 

Yes, there's a difference in perception here I think. I would choose alone. I might even prefer alone in many situations. I am not lonely; I'm not sure I've felt lonely. I remember passing my driving test and wishing i had someone to share the joy with (the freedom of driving meant so much to me), but it wasn't a big deal. When I was a kid was I lonely? I don't think so. Unloved and stuff yes, but lonely, craving company? i can't remember that (the phrase "craving company" describes a state of mind that I have to imagine). I think there are possibly many people who would agree with me here but they don't say so because there's no need.

Aware is healthy. How healthy can one get though?  :D

Thanks for coming back Sela. I understand that we mean pretty much the same thing (and I hope you do).  8) P

Sela

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Re: ‘Happiness’, delusion, Zen & books
« Reply #17 on: June 20, 2007, 09:44:50 PM »
Hi again P:

I'm glad we mean pretty much the same thing (and it would be ok if we didn't).

Thanks for your thoughtful post and for talking about your gut reactions and all.

Yes, how healthy can one get?  (and how would one know....the limit?)

Not my biggest worry.  :roll:

Sela


coldplay

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Re: ‘Happiness’, delusion, Zen & books
« Reply #18 on: June 25, 2007, 02:53:06 PM »
I am new to this community; i chose Coldplay as the group has some really great songs.

Try these books by Alan Watts: The Wisdom of Insecurity, This Is It, Become What You Are, What is Zen;
And then this as a bedside companion: The Unknown Teachings of Lao Tzu by Brian Walker
Am i a hack? no, a student of life
Both my parents were NPD: my father the alcoholic version, my mother the passive-aggressive version
My journey started with Hermann Hesse and Carl Jung....understanding the archetype will help you tremendously,
then try moving onto whatever path helps you develop your inner essential self... you will find the way within the myriad of ways

Square One

You're in control
Is there anywhere you wanna go?
You're in control
Is there anything you wanna know?
The future's for discovering
The space in which we travel in

From the top of the first page
To the end of the last day
From the start in your own way
You just want somebody listening to what you say
It doesn't matter who you are

Under the surface trying to break through
Deciphering the codes in you
I need a compass, draw me a map
I'm on the top, I can't get back

The first line on the first page
To the end of the last page (you were looking at)
From the start in your own way
You just want somebody listening to what you say

It doesn't matter who you are
It doesn't matter who you are

You just want somebody listening to what you say
You just want somebody listening to what you say
It doesn't matter who you are
It doesn't matter who you are

Is there anybody out there who
Is lost and hurt and lonely too
Are they bleeding all your colours into one?
And if you come undone
As if you've been run through
Some catapult it fired you
You wonder if your chance'll ever come
Or if you're stuck in square one

Portia

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Re: ‘Happiness’, delusion, Zen & books
« Reply #19 on: June 26, 2007, 10:05:35 AM »
Sela: Not my biggest worry. me neither my friend 8)

Coldplay, thank you! I like recommendations and i shall investigate. Commiserations for your parents; celebrations for your journey.