The sadness that I felt with an interaction,today

[Ami]

I don't know if I can express the sadness that I felt  with an interaction, today. I did not take the call,but my Father left a message.I have been NC for 2 months I tried to "tell" them about my N mother's problem. I had not found this website yet. However, I had read the standard"books" and thought that I had finally found the answer that would help to solve the '"problem".
   I wrote my heart out by e mail . I  told my mother, the therapist, everything,that she must have missed. I told them how my father would never stand up,but stood silently by.I told them that I was 112 pds and 5 ft. 6 in. tall. I could not eat.
   Today, my father left me a message on the phone,"We have some of your doll collection in the attic. We are cleaning it. Do you want us to send it to you?"
 . Vaknin says that the spouse of an N pulls the "supply" in when the N screws up so badly and the supply(me) goes away.
  I am just floored, shocked and saddened that my life with them has come to this.
  Now, I am looking at my Husband. He is an N,I think,but not as malignant as my mother. He says that for us to have a good marriage,"The ball is in my court."
  I am just observing him ,now.. He is going to have to earn my trust.   I never faced how my father was a co-conspirator. He was a kind person. He was the only kindness that we had in that house. He was the only stability that we had. However, he would never, ever stand up.
  One thing that is so great ,though,is that I feel more "real". I feel sad,but it is a real feeling.
  Any comments would be much appreciated. I think that this must be another stage in healing .I hope that I am expressing myself ,here. I don't know if I am.

 

[Certain Hope]

Dear Ami,

To me, you are expressing yourself quite well and simply... and my heart hears yours.
This sadness has life in it... not like resignation, which is dead and dry. Sadness can be replaced by joy and hope...
resignation just lies there, destroying everything positive.
I think you're doing very well.

With love,
Hope

[teartracks]

Ami,

My dad is deceased.  Oh how I wish I could ask him the questions that have come up in my recovery.  Like why did he put up with the manipulation, control ,and bullying we all endured?  Why didn't he stand in the gap and stand up for us and himself.  He also, was a kind tender man, but he dropped the ball in many ways when it came to the manipulation, bullying and control.  He was not a shrinking violet by any means, I think he fell deeply in love with a beautiful milkmaid type girl and stayed googly eyed almost up to the end about her.

I agree with what CH and Lupine say.  You're in a process, you're not static.  You're recovering and sometimes it feels like you're stuck in a knothole flapping in the wind and going nowhere, but you are.

tt 

[lighter]

I'm sorry you're in such pain Ami.  I'm in a very different place from you right now and I can't really understand what upset you about your father's message. 

Is it that he's trying to get you to call and involve them in your life again by digging up your dolls and dangling them? 

Is it that he's stepped on the NC boundary?

Is it that your NH is never going to be able to earn your trust and the ball really isn't in your court at all, aside from emotionally detaching from him and depending on yourself for your emotional well being and fulfilling life?

[Hopalong]

((((((((((((Ami))))))))))))))

Ow.

And some other person, not this man in the reality of who he is, might've said:

I miss you, honey. It worries me that I haven't heard from you.

I'll bet my last paycheck that your poor Dad is so ineffectual that he was just being messenger man.
I think your mother fed him that line.

They can't parent you, Ami. Neither one.
That doesn't mean your Dad doesn't love you.

It means he can't do anything about it.

But you can...learning to treat yourself kindly, be loving and compassionate toward your own inner being...
you can love yourself enough that you will not be weakened any more by their weakness.

love
Hops

[Bella_French]

AMi-hugs to you! I can feel your sadness and your sense of longing for your father's untainted love. Its the potential of what that father-daughter relationship could have been thats so disapponting isn't it?

I feel the same way about my father. I love him for his gentleness, his kindness, and steadfast acceptance of me (when he is `allowed' to have a relationship with me, that is) , but its hard not to feel betrayed by him for letting me down as a father. His life is about protecting `the lie' and holding on to an abusive relationship at any cost. I understand what he feels a victim of narcissistic abuse. He has lost his spirit, and its become easier to live ina state of delusion. But I find myself disrespecting the way he avoids the truth so vigilently.

And what you said about `co-conspiracy' is so true of my father as well- by failing to confront the truth, he has become a co-conspirator in the abuse.

Hugs to you Ami. I am sorry that you are experiencing this. It is very sad.

[dandylife]

Ami,
Hi. Sorry you're feeling down about this.

I can tell you from my experience - I had an N dad. And my mom was the one who stood by and let it all happen. She wasn't silent, mind you, she'd scream her lungs out sometimes. But my dad knew she'd never leave. Why? Because her own N mother told her that she made her bed and she should lay in it after she met my dad. She could never go home. My mom always said to me (I was the youngest for the longest time until my little sis was born 17 years after me) "When you are 18, I'm gone." So my dad knew for a dam* fact that she would never leave him. I think he took that as license to act badly.

I guess my point is that the spouse has their own issues. Why does she stay? (there is a reason) Why doesn't she demand limits be kept? (there is a reason) Why doesn't she set a boundary and when it's crossed, leave? (there is a reason)

Parenting is an art, a skill. Most people suck at it.

There are so many ins and outs and filters and beliefs and values that go in and get scrambled and make up the person who is...your mom. Or your dad.

Why don't people do the right thing? That is the golden question.

Dandylife

[pennyplant]

Ami, It sounds like you are at a crossroads.  Observation of your husband, for as long as it takes, sounds like a good idea to me.  Let the wheels turn as long as you need them to.  Everything is a process or a long path to take.  Even the NC.  And the "ball in your court".  The role of the co-conspirator is a very complicated one.  Maybe even worse than being the actual N.  Ns are just broken in some ways.  It's pretty simple for them.  For the rest of us "satellites" it's a hard, hard thing.

And I agree, feeling sad means you're feeling real.  And feeling real is everything.  It is hard.  But it matters.  You matter.

PP

[Ami]

Thank you so very much for responding.I appreciate so much how you tried to understand this  post.  After I wrote it, I realized what the point was. I gave my heart, soul, life ,core,physical and mental health to her. I became a shell to make her happy. I let her 'suck out my insides" so I could go forward as her clone.I became her clone.   I married my husband, a doctor, so she would be proud of  me. My heartbeat and soul was to help her and to try to make her O.K.. I hated myself my whole life because i could not make her O.K.I blamed myself, wanted to punish myself and hated myself because I could never ever make her happy.I gave up my self esteem, dignity and integrity and threw it at the alter of her.
   At the end it comes down to her total denial of  any reality. She has no 'connection' about her actions and reality.  She hurt me so badly that I almost died. She has NO reaction to this. I am abused and she says,"Don't think that you are coming here(home).". It comes down to her having a blank face . It comes down to my father protecting her at all costs. I am a piece of trash on the side of the road compared to protecting the lies. The lies are that she is O.K. and "normal".The "lies" are everything in our family. The lies are the "god" and the king. Nothing will  change this...They will prevail even if all the kids die because of them. The only thing that has to be maintained is them
   I am looking at my life as a gerbil on a wheel -all for nothing. I am sick in body and mind-all in the goal of pleasing her. None of it meant anything. I could have been person A,person B or person C-. None of it would have mattered. The end would have been the same. She would be there with her blank face. I could have been a "prostitute" or the president- none of it would have changed her and the blankness.The same with my father. No matter what I did, he would protect her at all costs.- even if it meant the end of  me literally.
   This is what I saw today..
   Vaknin talks about the "blankness" of the N. You could do any action to them or for them and  the end would be the same- the blank face. .She could have done anything to me and my father would never protect me. My husband was abusing me and my father was worrying about my husband .. I wanted a father who would say,"If you lay a hand on her, I will kill you."He would rather let me die rather than raise his voice- Mr Gentle.
   After all the pain etc that I went through,instead of facing anything, they are worrying about some old,dirty dolls in the attic.This is what upset me today. It all comes down to some crummy dolls in the attic.. I never read the "Glass Menagerie" but I heard that it was about a girl playing with these glass figures instead of dealing with the reality of life(I think). This is what the dolls  in the attic were.They are worrying about some dolls in the attic while lies are enshrouding our house in a dense,deathly fog.We are all dying because of these lies. Everyone is sick because no one will face the truth.
   After all of this ,it is strange because, I am really happy.  I feel "real". I feel" real" hurt and indignation. I feel real feelings.   I also have the strength to face  the lies for the first time.. I am facing that there is "nothing" in the relationship but blankness and lies.However,it is O.K.
 . When it is all said and done, they did not destroy me. .. I am not alone. In time, I will handle my life like CB is.                 Love Ami

[pennyplant]

((((((((((((((((Ami)))))))))))))))))

You have figured it out.  You know what this really is and you see what this really is.  Now you are on your way.  You will be free.

PP

[lighter]

((((Ami))))

I guess you're at the place of accepting that your parents can't/won't do a better job than they're doing.  That's a very sad awful low place but, you're there.  I'm so sorry.  Like being an orphan but harder bc your parents are still right there, you should be able to expect kindness and care, I kow. It's so unfair that instead you;re cannibalized.  Outrageous and they do it so that others can't see it.  Toxic and confusing.  You're lucky you can begin to see the truth though.

Probably hard to stay there in that pain, I know.  Sometimes just sinking into it without the expectation that you can escape it or do anything about it right now, just let it be with you for a while may help.  Accept it and see what it has to say to you.

Facing that kind of pain is so terrible, it's usually impossible to get through. 

But know this, if you can stick with it and give up the hope that mama will be decent and caring, that dad will be protective and appropriate, the little child inside of you gets to stop wishing and hoping your life away. 

Cry, scream, pretend their sitting in fron of you, pretend you're 4 or 5 or 10yo and really tell them how you feel.  Get it out and rage over it.  Let it wash over you and through you and experience every bit of it so that little child inside of you can feel heard and stop tapping you on the shoulder all the time.  She wants to be heard and she'll keep showing up in in all kinds of ways if she can't just be sad and mourn what she deserved.

Terrible thing.  But you deserve to feel sorry for yourself.  Own it, it's yours. 

I'm so sorry (((Ami)))  You didn't do anything to cause this.  They can't do any better because they're broken. 

You can do better, however.  You're able to see the truth clearly and seek healing for yourself. 

The struggle to strengthen your self is painful and hard but it's certainly worth it when you realize that the pain doesn't last forever.  It ebs and flows and when things settle down, when you're happy to be alive again, you understand why things happened the way they did.  Things clear up and your stronger for having learned those painful lessons.  You;ll grow and become much stronger.  That's a byproduct of facing the pain. 

What I want you to take from this long post is, that you don't need anyone else but you to be whole.  Really.  Taking scary steps are usually the first steps to liberation and feeling better.  It has to get worse before it gets better.  Just know it does get better.

Pray to see the truth more clearly.  Pray for God to help you help yourself.  Get therapy and demystify your reality.  You're on your way, whether you stay with your husband or not. 

((((Ami)))

[Hopalong]

Lighter,

You've helped me too...with this. Thank you.

if you can stick with it and give up the hope...[...]...the little child inside of you gets to stop wishing and hoping your life away.

 

In a weird way, you've absolutely nailed what Pena Chodron tries to get through to people. Giving up hope is empowering.

(I think it doesn't mean never being HOPEFUL...that can come and go. As I understand it, it means giving up being HOOKED on hope, so that it dominates your life and saps your will)

This is a lesson I need to learn. I feel your struggle Ami, and I feel your huge breakthrough too.

Hops

[lighter]

You're welcome Hops. 

[Stormchild]

((((((((((((((Ami)))))))))))

So painful, to discover that they love their lies more than they love us, and they will always love lies more than they love us...

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"What is REAL?" asked the Rabbit one day, when they were lying side by side near the nursery fender, before Nana came to tidy the room. "Does it mean having things that buzz inside you and a stick-out handle?"

"Real isn't how you are made," said the Skin Horse. "It's a thing that happens to you. When a child loves you for a long, long time, not just to play with, but REALLY loves you, then you become Real."

"Does it hurt?" asked the Rabbit.

"Sometimes," said the Skin Horse, for he was always truthful. "When you are Real you don't mind being hurt."

"Does it happen all at once, like being wound up," he asked, "or bit by bit?"

"It doesn't happen all at once," said the Skin Horse. "You become. It takes a long time. That's why it doesn't happen often to people who break easily, or have sharp edges, or who have to be carefully kept. Generally, by the time you are Real, most of your hair has been loved off, and your eyes drop out and you get loose in the joints and very shabby. But these things don't matter at all, because once you are Real you can't be ugly, except to people who don't understand."

"I suppose you are real?" said the Rabbit. And then he wished he had not said it, for he thought the Skin Horse might be sensitive. But the Skin Horse only smiled.

"The Boy's Uncle made me Real," he said. "That was a great many years ago; but once you are Real you can't become unreal again. It lasts for always."

-- from The Velveteen Rabbit, by Margery Williams

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Ami: the good news is: You're not a lie. You're real. And it lasts for always.

((((((()))))))

[Bella_French]

I am looking at my life as a gerbil on a wheel -all for nothing. I am sick in body and mind-all in the goal of pleasing her. None of it meant anything. I could have been person A,person B or person C-. None of it would have mattered. The end would have been the same. She would be there with her blank face. I could have been a "prostitute" or the president- none of it would have changed her and the blankness.The same with my father. No matter what I did, he would protect her at all costs.- even if it meant the end of  me literally.
   This is what I saw today..

Oh Ami, It is so heartbreaking when such enormous attempts to win love fail. N's make all of us feel that way: like no matter what we do, we can't win their love (although it is implied that we can, if only we did A, B &C). I know the sense of futility you're decribing.

I saw some wedding photos last week which were taken at my sister's wedding when i was still with my ex-N. I was quite shocked out how beautfiul I looked. I'd never looked better in any photo I'd seen of me.

But I remember how my ex had flirted with any girl he could that day, even my sisters. Especially my sisters, because he knew it would hurt. He told me I looked ok, but in a strained voice, and he just had to find some minor details to criticise. A few people commented on my appearance and gave me attention. He became so moody and threatened to leave the wedding. He said i was p'ing him off' and left me to work out why?

It was a horrible day and I felt ugly and unlovable to the core. And now i look at that picture, from the wedding, and I can't believe that guy couldn't love me and couldn't see anything beautiful in me.

I sooo agree that its wise to give up hoping and yearning for love from N's. its the hardest thing, because these people demand that we make such a huge investment in loving them. Its like being beaten, whilst having a carrot on a stick held out in front of us, always out of reach.

Ami, people like you are so lovable. A regular parent, or a regular man, would give you more love than you imagined. Its not your fault that your parents are they way they are. You deserve to receive love. You didn't deserve what you received in its place.

hugs to you!