Author Topic: Confronting a person with boundary confusion  (Read 14554 times)

Gaining Strength

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Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« on: August 11, 2007, 11:48:16 PM »
One of the things the irks me the most about my mother is her complete lack of boundaries.  Her violations are real button pushers.

But here is another boundary problem I have.  I received this e-mail today from a guy I know.  He has expressed interest in my for almost a year and although I like him I am not interested in having a romantic relationship of any kind.  I posted part of one of his e-mails to me back in March and got alot of "better beware" feedback.

What do you make of this:   I bumped into him a few weeks ago.  We talked. Always about the same sorts of things: science, the mind, the soul.  He was talking about the "mind's eye" and the breath.  He asked if he could come by and bring some books about breathing exercises.  "Sure!" I said.  So he did.  The last book he showed me was one with "couples" exercises with illustrations of a male and female hugging and "breathing."  I didn't really respond and haven't yet.  It actually sort of irritated me because I have repeatedly made it clear that I was not interested in having any kind of a romantic invovlement. 

Here's part of today's e-mail:


     When you were looking at the breath book, you asked me what hugging had to
do with breathing. Breathing is a part of all that we do. It is possible to stop
anything one is doing and do something else, however when breathing stops, life
is at an end and nothing else is possible. It is important that we be aware of
our breathing in all that we do, it is an exercise called “minding the breath”.
     Physical contact is one of the essential things necessary for survival. It
was determinded that if children are not held and loved when they are babies
only have a 5-15% chance of survival. The ones that do live are typically
without conscious or remorse and are incapable of showing love or affection. .
They sometimes become psychopathic killers.  And virtually none ever adjust to
society. Hugging and loving then are also essential to survival, as essential as
breath itself.
   Normally we associate hugging and loving with romantic relationships however
that does not have to be the only way in which we can do this. Shared exercise
has been around for thousands of years and is a method by which to share the
essence of life, breath. It is a way to become one with others that does not
involve sexual activity, or commitment.
    Barriers and boundries are for protection from harm. Frequently however
barriers and boundries serve to protect ourselves from what is good as well as
what is bad. It is then, that we should carefully question ouselves as to what
we are protecting ourselves from. If we are protecting ourselves from physical
harm or finaincial ruin we are justified, however if we are trying to protect
ourselves from emotional harm, then we are misplaced in our efforts. Emotional
harm is only in the mind and is a result of our own delusions about what is
right. 
   Shared exercise is only a small part of the totality of the practices. There
are many different practices to alleviate depression (which we both suffer
from), strengthen the organs, and increase health.  We can proceed along any
line of inquiry you are interested. As a part of my practice I am trying not to
have a particular goal or agenda.  As a result of this I am free to move in any
direction with the practices. I have my own personal exercises I am working on,
however they may not be the best ones for other people. This will also allow me
to explore areas I might miss in my my own practice as my course will be
determined by others and not by my own self.
   The picture that I am sending you is significiant for several reasons. It
represents a balanceing of male and female energies. Since the male and female
are clothed, it is know that intimacy is not required to awaken the serpent. (
Kundalina energy located at the base of the spine and in the pelvic floor.) This
energy travels upward to the brain through the reptilain brain  (triangle)  and
into the pineal gland represented by the circle in a circle..  Here a single
mind if formed, a union of male and female enrgies making a complete whole.
   You have seen for yourself that the combined efforts of two people are more
than four times the amount of one person alone. It also follows that the
combined efforts of two minds and two hearts are more than four times greater
than the efforts of one mind and one heart.
  Love, Paul



My last experience with him - the "couples breathing exercise" book and this e-mail irritate me.  It feels the same way I feel when my mother steps over the boundaries.  I know these are outrageous boundary violations  but I'm curious how some of my Voicelessness friends see it.  What is going on with this guy?  Should I even respond or just let it go.  I realize he is NOT going to get my message about being friends.  There's no point in trying to explain to him WHY I don't want to participate in these "union" exercises.

I am a little surprised about my strong irritation about his message.  Any thoughts?

Bella_French

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2007, 12:23:05 AM »
Lol. I'd be irritated too, Gaining Strength. I don't like that style of dealing with rejection, but I guess I can understand that the male ego is fragile.

To me, his letter came across as condescending and a tad manipulative, don't you think? Its almost as though he's try to spellbind you with his greater knowledge of tantric bonding and mystical serpant tails and what not,  get you to accept his greater authority, so that you'll do all these close-contact excercises with him (which do not feel right for you, considering the boundary you set with him).

From the length of the letter, and the detail he went into about babies the importance of intimate contact, it seems like he wants you to think you rejected him because of a problem with you. (lol)

But don't worry, Gaining Strength. He will help you get over this hump. You will mend your ways.  Face it: all will be solved if you give him more hugs and do some tantra with him.

(Sorry, i know he is your friend, but all I hear from him is `boo-hoo. I was rejected and I don't want to think its me. Its because she has issues, and i will fix them and then we'll have babies! Yeah!!)




teartracks

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2007, 12:29:45 AM »


Hi GS,

It gives me an oppressed feeling.  I think he is a controller.  And yes, as Bella says, condescending.  Batten down the boundaries girl!

tt 

Poppyseed

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2007, 12:58:52 AM »
Sounds like to me, your own feelings are trying to tell you something.  I think perhaps you already know the answer to your question. If you feel creepy about him, then he is probably creepy! Follow your gut!!!   You deserve the best and shouldn't be responsible for taking care of making him feel comfortable while you are trying to say no thank you and goodbye.  If he can't handle you saying no....he can just go hug himself!  And you can go and get a manicure!

pops

spyralle

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2007, 05:46:59 AM »
"it is know that intimacy is not required to awaken the serpent"

Sounds like his serpent is already awake GS...  How very ugh I can't even think of an appropriate word..

Anyway the words that come to mind when I read his email are arrogant, patronising, contolling manipulative and downright creepy..  Your intuition appears to be screaming at you here...  Always listen.

Love,

Spyralle x

JanetLG

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2007, 09:25:03 AM »
Gaining Strength,

His email gave me the creeps.

If 'physical' stuff like hugging isn't a problem FOR HIM, then suggest that he tries this first with another MAN...and watch him disappear over the horizon!!

Trust your instincts. If you want no romantic relationship with him, that's fine. FOR YOU. What he wants doesn't have to be the same, but the HAS TO respect your decision.

If he's this controlling now, it'd only get worse, IMO.

Keep yourself safe, please.


Janet

Ami

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2007, 09:55:27 AM »
Dear GS,
  The next thing that you are going to get in the mail is the Kama Sutra.I agree with Spy. It is about his serpent. RUN,RUN, RUN.  Give him up-- TOTALLY-- yesterday                       Love    Ami
No one can make you feel inferior without your consent.        Eleanor Roosevelt

Most of our problems come from losing contact with our instincts,with the age old wisdom stored within us.
   Carl Jung

Hopalong

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2007, 10:00:00 AM »
GS, hon,
I ditto everybody: condescending, controlling, using spiritual "lingo" to control and hopefully seduce. Iccccckk. Not listening to you, not aware, too much ego. Vocabulary of spirituality does not make a person truly spiritual.

I find self-annointed spiritual "mentors" with their special knowledge very very very annoying.

I would be tempted to tell him, I am so excited about my new spiritual path and I want to share it with you. Here, I've made us an appointment at the nearest Scientology center. Let's read all of L. Ron Hubbard's works together and then go get engrammed or whatever that is.

Yuck.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2007, 10:02:59 AM »
Oh GS....

I think I'll just say it one more time. 

If a man tries to change your NO.....

into a YES....

it's a red flag: /

Idonlikeit :?

reallyME

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2007, 10:22:08 AM »
Ummmmm, I read the man's email to you.  It didn't give me the creeps at all.  He is obviously a firm believer in some Hindu/new age type teachings and practices that GREATLY CONFLICT with my spiritual ones.

This man sincerely believes that he is supposed to bond with EVERYONE through hugging and breathing practices.  That is a large part of some mid-eastern philosophies. 

All I have to say is, I live my life as best as I can, according to the Bible, and, from what I know, "becoming ONE" is something a male and female are to do, ONLY IN THE BONDS OF MARRIAGE, period!  You are not supposed to be "meshing" with your friends, your family or others in this way AT ALL!  I think this guy will try and walk through ANY open door you give him, merely because you agreed to hear him out in the first place.  The whole point of such "religions" is to infiltrate society and all of the world with their teachings and practices.

If you find his beliefs offensive, simply tell him, "I do not want to hear any more about this.  I choose to believe differently."  I don't see him violating your boundaries, as much as just trying desperately to "save your "soul" "chakra" or whatever you want to call it, by his very intimate belief-system.

Just a different slant on it all, I spose.

~Laura

cats paw

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2007, 10:28:38 AM »
Hello Gaining Strength,

  You said that those were outrageous boundary violations.  You also said he is not going to get your message about not being friends.  You did say you liked him.  You asked what is going on with this guy.

  Dearest GS, what is going on with you?  What are you confused about?  You don't have to explain why you don't want to participate in the "union" exercises.  Do you feel you owe him that because he is your friend?  

   IMO, someone being a guru is unable to see or hear you because their wisdom drowns out any other knowledge, whether it comes from others or the part of self that they ignore.  They are unable to reflect because they are blinded by the shine of their wisdom.

   You, GS, are able to take things in from many sources.  I will be waiting to see what answers you find that will serve you best.

cats paw

JanetLG

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2007, 10:41:36 AM »
Reallyme,

What I found creepy about the man's email what not his 'spritual' angle (if that's what he would call it), but the fact that he's SAYING it's spiritually-based, when really that's a ruse to encroach on Gaining Strength's quite legitimate boundaries.

Eastern religions and New Age philosopies IN THEMSELVES are not dangerous (and their followers are not 'trying to take over the world' either, IMO) - unless they are used as an *excuse* for something which real adherents to those ideas would find abhorent.

I don't think this man HAS a *valid* 'belief system', intimate or otherwise - he is using that idea as a trick to manipulate Gaining Strength, given half a chance.



Janet

reallyME

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2007, 10:56:43 AM »
I have to disagree with you Janet LG.  New-age people will openly ADMIT that they are trying to unite all the world in a ONENESS "spiritually"

As far as this man, I do see what you mean about him using his "beliefs" to manipulate our VBoard friend.

~Laura

JanetLG

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2007, 11:23:03 AM »
Reallyme,

You said :  "New-age people will openly ADMIT that they are trying to unite all the world in a ONENESS "spiritually""

What, ALL of them 'admit' that?!! The term 'New Age' is a hugely broad term, applied to a very disparate group of people, usually by others, so I'm not sure which actual sub-division you are referring to. Are you saying that, in contrast, some Christian denominations DON'T try to convert people (which could be seen, by non-Christians, as 'trying to take over the world'), too?

'Unite' and 'take over' are very different terms, too. As are Hindu and New Age...just ask a someone from the Hindu faith!

Before you ask, I'm a Christian, too.

What I was pointing out re. this creepy man, was that I don't think he sincerely holds 'beliefs', New Age or not - he's just using some information he's got hold of in order to control others, given half a chance.

Janet




Gaining Strength

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Re: Confronting a person with boundary confusion
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2007, 11:35:43 AM »
a tad manipulative
LOL yep - a tad!

I don't like that style of dealing with rejection
Aha!! - that's what it is.  I didn't quite get it.

your own feelings are trying to tell you something.
Oh yes and I do get that message loud and clear.

he can just go hug himself!
LOL

too inappropriate
Absolutely!!

"it is know that intimacy is not required to awaken the serpent"
I actually had not read the last couple of paragraphs until I posted it.  The first part got me enough.
But still I missed the obvious fallic image LOL!  I think I'll pass.

If 'physical' stuff like hugging isn't a problem FOR HIM, then suggest that he tries this first with another MAN...and watch him disappear over the horizon!!
LOL - or someone else's wife -

It is about his serpent.
And I'm really not interested in his serpent!! LOL

I've made us an appointment at the nearest Scientology center.
LOL

it's a red flag:

bond with EVERYONE through hugging and breathing practices.
somehow I missed that EVERYONE concept - he's welcome to bond with EVERYONE besides me.

What are you confused about?
same old stuff - I like the guy - the same way I liked him when he was married - and I (fallaciously) believe that if I am clear enough about my boundaries he will get it.  NOT

He sounds needy and  desperate for female touch and energy.
Yep.

Thanks for your feedback.  I get it.
I really like this guy.  He is bright and very interesting to talk to.  I loved the idea of having a friend who is male and because he said that's what he wanted too I got stuck on that despite the rest of the message.  That is old stuff for me but I wasn't confused about the boundary violations - when I was younger I would have not understood even that.

This is the line that makes me angry:
"if we are trying to protect
ourselves from emotional harm, then we are misplaced in our efforts. Emotional
harm is only in the mind and is a result of our own delusions about what is
right."

That's the manipulation that is outrageous.  It reminds me of a svengali, cult leader type line.

But nobody answers the question about what to do.  Give a response or just let it go.  I am not going to get into an argument with him.  If I responded that the boundary violation or the physical intimacy of the "breathing" exercises were too much I'm sure he would follow up with an argument.  I'm not going there.  I do get why I'm angry now - once again the guy just isn't listening to me and is generating a logic for which a NO is b/c of something wrong with me "delusions about what is right" - DELUSIONAL!!!  No wonder I'm angry.  He foresaw my objection to his pursuit - boundary violation - and argued that my objection was DELUSIONAL.  Boy have I experienced too much of that kind of stuff in my life.  Thanks to all for helping me sort this out.  DELUSIONAL Boy does that make me mad!
« Last Edit: August 12, 2007, 11:38:03 AM by Gaining Strength »