Shame and anger - why do people make us feel ashamed for our anger?

[Hermes]

I second your post fully and utterly, Bella.
You expressed that very well.

Hugs
Hermes

[Gabben]

I second your post fully and utterly, Bella.
You expressed that very well.

Hugs
Hermes

Hermes will you please read my thread and stick to the nature of what I am talking to here if you wish to respond -- Assuptions have been made, this thread is in jepardy of being taken over in an attempt to gang up on me.

Please do not come on to my thread, a thread about my pain and hurt about my mom and dad's abandonment and the deep wounds that I am feeling, which was NOT triggered by you and bella, and try to gang up on me with Bella -- that is a limit, please respect it.

Thank you,
Lise

[Bella_French]

After reading Carolyn's last post on the safe people thread, I felt that sometimes people here are trying to tell me something, as if I do not already know...I feel as though I should grab a stick and club myself so that people here can feel better about themselves.

Honestly Gabben, this is getting crazy.

Who else on the `Safe people' thread did you disagree with? I did not see anyone, so I believe that your comment above was directed at us. And now you're calling it an `assumption'. If it was someone else, who was it? PM me if you like.

 There is no `gang'. Noone thinks you should be grabbing sticks or doing any clubbing, well I am most certainly not.  But you are being rude and angry now.

Whats up, Gabben? Honestly, whats up?

[Gabben]

After reading Carolyn's last post on the safe people thread, I felt that sometimes people here are trying to tell me something, as if I do not already know...I feel as though I should grab a stick and club myself so that people here can feel better about themselves.

Honestly Gabben, this is getting crazy.

Who else on the `Safe people' thread did you disagree with? I did not see anyone, so I believe that your comment above was directed at us. And now you're calling it an `assumption'. If it was someone else, who was it? PM me if you like.

 There is no `gang'. Noone thinks you should be grabbing sticks or doing any clubbing, well I am most certainly not.  But you are being rude and angry now.

Whats up, Gabben? Honestly, whats up?

Hi Bella,

If I said that my quote was not directed at you then that is exactly what I meant, I'm not lying.

If my thread here was to have been read, then you would see what is "up."

Please do not call this crazy as it seems to passively be referring to my behavior and secondly as I appreciate your concern but this is not about you.

The gang and club comments are metaphorical language.

Lise

[Gabben]

Bella - we bump heads, nothing wrong with that.

Why don't we take a break from communicating here for awhile? I do not feel that we are connecting, which is OK and we seem to not effectively be supporting each other, which is OK too. We are at different places, which is OK too.

Peace and hugs to you Bella,
Lise

[Certain Hope]

Lise,

I'm not sure what's going on here, but since one of my postings has been mentioned, I just want you to know that I've not posted a single thing on this board with a passive intent to effect you in any way...

and I wish you the very best.

Carolyn

[Bella_French]

Gabs,

I hear you, but I do feel entitled to call you on your accusations when they false and hurtful, and on your behavior when it is rude towards me. And I believe you are entitled to do the same.

Just going on a tangent here which relates directly with this thread, ...in the bigger sense, I think many of us struggle to both interpret and know what to do with our triggers. I respect you for attempting to work through the origins of your feelings on this thread, and I find you to be an honest person.  I am perhaps surprised (?) that you di not take this one  step further, and recognize that a person who triggers you (ie me) is not attacking you. You do not know my thoughts, intent, or feelings. Y If you feel shame, it does not mean I `made' you feel that shame. If you feel pain, It does not mean that my intents were horrible.

I guess I hoped you'd see this. Maybe you do.

But I'll leave it alone if you'd like. Thats all I hoped to get across to you.

Anyhow, I like firey people for some reason, so all is good with me. I don't get worked up, but wish I did. I think admire a bit of fire, lol

Have a nice day Gabs.

X bella

[Gabben]

Gabs,

I hear you, but I do feel entitled to call you on your accusations when they false and hurtful, and on your behavior when it is rude towards me. And I believe you are entitled to do the same.

Ok, thanks Bella.
Lise

[Violet]

One thing I have learned is that in order to be truly helpful to others we have to love, love and love. For the most part this is my number one goal in life, forgiving my parents used to be the number one goal. But now I know that I have forgive them AND love them.

The anger and deep hurt in my heart just keeps coming up. I awake in the morning hurting, I open my eyes and hot tears stroll down my face. I feel the aloneness of that little girl who at age 4 had no one. No one to see her, adore her, hold her, pay attention to her, protect her. Her pain is not my pain...it is her pain.

Lise

Dear Lise,

So many things about your post touched some things very deep inside me.  I have not been feeling well today; I have been regretting that I had to learn anything more about my abusive childhood.  I am sad and mad my mother still tries to make me ashamed and insecure and lacking when I exhibit the most normal and basic of human emotions, wants, needs, and opinions.  I have been mad and distressed today, mad at God because He never gives me a break and won't ever let  me be just happy and normal,  I have been mad at all the normal, happy, carefree people, mad at myself because I cannot just "get over it."  In short, at least for today I am a basket case and I don't have time for all of this  because I have too much to do to feel so awful....

Anyway, in all the pain (and I very much relate to feeling that little, hurting abandoned 4 year old girl, who IS very much me, or at least a fundamental part of the me I am now) I am sensing I must in some real way forgive HER and love HER, first of all and most of all.  Everyone else can just get in line.

I don't know how to express what I really mean, and since all this NPD info is relatively new, I may be talking nonsense.  I am just feeling like somehow this child, this me that was born into the world was NEVER cared for properly in any way, and somehow I as an adult am going to have to take on the responsibilities of loving her and caring for her just as if she were my child. Gosh, I am rambling, and I apologize but I feel really mentally ill and sad today....   God bless you, Lise, and God bless the little girl....  Violet

[Gabben]

Violet,

What a blessing you are to my spirit hugs, Violet.

Your post resonated with me, you are gentle, humble and insightful, thanks.

you said:

I have been mad and distressed today, mad at God because He never gives me a break and just lets me be happy and normal,  I have been mad at all the normal, happy, carefree people, mad at myself because I cannot just "get over it."  In short, at least for today I am a basket case and I don't have time for all of this  because I have too much to do to feel so awful....

My heart felt full of compassion for you as I read the above, I am there with you. I hope that you can give yourself a hug and let yourself release those tears that are fighting there way out.

The anger hurts doesn't it? I can't stand the anger, I would rather feel the pain but that is progress.

Anger is just a defence against our pain and tears.


Last night I was thinking of you, I realized that made a comment on one of your threads that went like this: " all mental illness is is a refusal to suffer." I hope that you did not think I was trying to say something to you?

I wrote that comment because this past weekend I was hurting and I wanted to reach for a cigarette, my mind was racing and I was feeling anxious. I started to breath and sit with what was coming up for me emotionally, it pain and more tears. I cried and at times just sat there feeling intense pain and hurting. I was suffering the deprivation of the loss of my mom's love, or genuine love, the stuff we need to live and live happily.

As I was suffering my thoughts calmed and my anxiety left me, then I thought to myself, "wow...all mental illness is an unwillingness to suffer." I thought "all I do is geared around seeking relief." I was saying that I was feel mentally ill for me. I can relate.

You violet ARE NOT mentally ill. From what I can discern from your posts, you are all there and for the most part, people who admit that they suffer depression, anger and all the stuff that you admitted to are usually more healthy than those that do not admit to anything and pretend to have it all together.


Thank you so much - what great voice you have -- I am happy you are here.

Love,
Lise

[Gabben]

Gabben,

I think you are correct, in that myself and Hermes (I expect we are the ones who triggered this post?) feel very comfortable expressing our voices, even when it involves expressing a difference of opinion. In my opinion this is healthy and a foundation fof recovery from voicelessness, and I wish you felt the same way about expressing your voice, rather than angry at us for expressing ours.

Actually - no Bella - It was not you and or hermes

...express away...an may I also express?


The person who triggered this knows it and they love doing it and they sit back in delight as I squirm because they are a psychopaths and watching me squirm is exactly what makes them tick.



Lise

I just realized that I wrote above and it seems to be directed to someone on the board...not. I was referring to N saint T(my original trigger that brought me to the board)....I thought this was obvious.

[Violet]

Violet,

What a blessing you are to my spirit hugs, Violet.

Your post resonated with me, you are gentle, humble and insightful, thanks.

you said:

I have been mad and distressed today, mad at God because He never gives me a break and just lets me be happy and normal,  I have been mad at all the normal, happy, carefree people, mad at myself because I cannot just "get over it."  In short, at least for today I am a basket case and I don't have time for all of this  because I have too much to do to feel so awful....

My heart felt full of compassion for you as I read the above, I am there with you. I hope that you can give yourself a hug and let yourself release those tears that are fighting there way out.

The anger hurts doesn't it? I can't stand the anger, I would rather feel the pain but that is progress.

Anger is just a defence against our pain and tears.


Last night I was thinking of you, I realized that made a comment on one of your threads that went like this: " all mental illness is is a refusal to suffer." I hope that you did not think I was trying to say something to you?

I wrote that comment because this past weekend I was hurting and I wanted to reach for a cigarette, my mind was racing and I was feeling anxious. I started to breath and sit with what was coming up for me emotionally, it pain and more tears. I cried and at times just sat there feeling intense pain and hurting. I was suffering the deprivation of the loss of my mom's love, or genuine love, the stuff we need to live and live happily.

As I was suffering my thoughts calmed and my anxiety left me, then I thought to myself, "wow...all mental illness is an unwillingness to suffer." I thought "all I do is geared around seeking relief." I was saying that I was feel mentally ill for me. I can relate.

You violet ARE NOT mentally ill. From what I can discern from your posts, you are all there and for the most part, people who admit that they suffer depression, anger and all the stuff that you admitted to are usually more healthy than those that do not admit to anything and pretend to have it all together.


Thank you so much - what great voice you have -- I am happy you are here.

Love,
Lise

Dear Lise,
I wish I could figure out how to use this board the way I want to.  I don't know how to isolate and comment on separate statements and put them in boxes, so I will just plug along....  First of all, thank you for making me feel you are happy I am here.  I am "happy" I am here too, but probably "happy" is not quite the word for what I am feeling at the moment. 

Re: your comment on one of my other threads, you said: 'all mental illness is an unwillingness to suffer.'   I thought that was quite profound.  I am not sure exactly what that means to you but what I took away from it was this:  True psychopathology (mental illness?) results from not being willing and/or able to face the pain and work and agony and honesty involved in facing the truths about our selves and our lives and making the hard choices needed to grow into more whole, humane individuals.  Is that sort of what you mean?  In other words,  mental illness is really a kind of denial of truth....

Lise, I am sad for your suffering, but I do honestly believe God comforts those who mourn.  We are many of us in mourning here, we have lost so much....  Yes, I am sad tonight....

I hear lots of brave, honest, hurt, but courageous voices on this board and I have been reading these posts quite a while now.  I like the freedom I am feeling, the freedom to maybe find and express my voice and hopefully (please, God!) grow toward more inner truth and goodness and honesty in my life....   Sorry, Lise, rambling seems to be my strong point....  Violet

Oh, yeah, when I say I feel "mentally ill," I don't mean it in the literal sense, I should probably say I feel sick at heart....     I just plain feel bad today, lots of sadness and fears and guilt, and I am really having something like anxiety attacks, not full blown, just trembling and shaking and foreboding feelings and I hate it!  I have to admit I HATE PAIN, but that is part of the price to be paid for honest and searing self-awareness....   Oh, well, thankfully I can go to bed soon.   God bless you, Lise....  V

[Hermes]

Hello Bella, and everyone:

Well, it is late and I am off to bed.  Talking about triggers.  I am SO reminded of the way my dear ex-NH used to talk to me, and it is just so delightful as in:


"""Hermes will you please read my thread and stick to the nature of what I am talking to here if you wish to respond -- Assuptions have been made, this thread is in jepardy of being taken over in an attempt to gang up on me.

Please do not come on to my thread, a thread about my pain and hurt about my mom and dad's abandonment and the deep wounds that I am feeling, which was NOT triggered by you and bella, and try to gang up on me with Bella -- that is a limit, please respect it."""

Thank you,
Lise

Best to everyone
Hermes

[Certain Hope]

Hi, Hermes...

Just a friendly note...

I have been in your metaphorical shoes, as far as thinking along the lines of what you've just expressed... and I was wrong.

Please just consider the difference between a person raging at you and following you from place to place, waiting outside the door for you to pounce the moment you exit your place of retreat, never allowing a moment's peace (a bit of my own experience with ex-N)...

as I was saying, the difference between that and...

a person feeling outnumbered in her own home (a thread she initiated?) by two people whom she interprets as being joined in united disagreement with her and exchanging back-pats about it.

Disclaimer:  I am NOT saying that's what has happened here. I am merely suggesting that the above is one possible interpretation of events, and from that perspective, I think a person would be doing quite well to simply ask one to bug off.

Thanks for listening.

Carolyn

[Hermes]

Thanks Carolyn, but with the greatest respect I am not a mind-reader, and I cannot second-guess either that someone is going to interpret a perfectly reasonable post.  I do NOT gang up on people (heaven knows I had that with the N ganging up solo on me), because it is not my style. 
I have not been treated with such rudeness in a very long time, and I will not tolerate it.  I am entitled to stand up, here, and say that.  Otherwise, I am rendered voiceless. 

I could say: "the moon is very bright tonight", and someone could put any spin they like on it.  It is THEIR problem, not mine.

All the best
Hermes