Answer to Bean's questions

[Leah]

I appreciate your withdrawl, if you aren't going to clarify.

Thanks, Lighter

Lighter,

The whole point is, that I had withdrawn, therefore, there isn't anything to clarify!

Hope you enjoy your day, best wishes to you.

Leah

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi Bean,

I’ve read and appreciated your thoughts.  I have no more to add for now, but I’ll continue to think about the topic.

Please identify the person or people you believe are trolling or remove the reference in your post on this thread.  Thanks.

Best,

Richard

[Sela]

Hiya Bean,

I read back there that you feel......."let down".....I think it was?

Sorry to hear that.  I suppose you mean you feel disappointed (which for me usually means I didn't get the outcome I was expecting.....which is very letting downish.....so ((((((((((Bean))))))))).

One thing --referring to your words/posts (and I get caught up in this myself so maybe I'm just projecting here):

If he had chosen to accept them for what I intended them to be

First I wanna say I'm a big believer in intention.  I think intention does count.  I think intention is a big piece of the pie but not the whole pie (if that makes any sense).


However.....big question coming:


How do we know another's intention????


Is there a way to know that for sure (if the person does not state it clearly, I guess I mean)?



Just something to think about or discard if it's totally useless for you.

My intention, by the way is to help, if possible and at least express some kinship/understanding/friendship/empathy even......though I don't always do the best job of it.

Sela

[lighter]

Oh, come on leah, lol.

Let's just go ahead and communicate in a direct manner.......

and have done with.

You and I have been dancing around the board, sans resolution, for a while now.

I really was looking forward to clarification. 

Your posts always bring more q uestions to mind, than they answer (at least, for me.)

I'm curiouse what would happen if you re-thought your recent statement: 

" I don't want to go down that road, upon consideration."

What do you think's at the end of that road?

If anything?

Lighter

I do apologize, Lighter

as I had simply withdrawn (as in a delete action) my discernment and thought, personal opinion, just prior to your request.

I don't want to go down that road, upon consideration.

Leah x

[Ami]

Oh, Gosh, Bean
 Somebody is damn busy!      Ami

[Certain Hope]

Poppyseed was a good friend of mine.

In fact, I recently put out a post to her, just letting her know that she was in my thoughts, in case she still reads occasionally.

Poppy, if you should happen upon this thread, please know that you can return and post under any name you'd like. I know why you left and I'd surely understand if you didn't want to return at this point, however.

Love,
Carolyn

P.S.  As to the other people (also friends of mine) who are being referred to in this way, I'd just like to say that I appreciate each one of you -  Changing, Izzy, Lighter, and Peace -  and after talking with each of you personally, I know in my heart that you are individual people and not merely names on a message board or trouble-stirring vixens. Thank you for being real.

The others with whom I've had no personal contact, well... I can't say, but I'm sorry for them to be put through this... and I think it's wrong to list them this way, as though they are objects, and not people.
That is just my opinion.

[Izzy_*now*]

no problem Dr. G - I think lighter is trolling and changing, finding peace and Izzy have fanned the fire.  If you want me to come up with the specific examples of where this happend, I'll try to do so but it will take me some time.

I have also wondered about sun, poppy, lollie and observer.  They may not have been trolls but they did mysteriously appear and disappear and responded to lighter primarily.


bean

When you do find proof, if you can, please start a new thread so I can see what you are talking about regarding my participation in 'fanning the fire'.

I am some surprised to see this post!

Thanks
Izzy

[Leah]

Dear Bean,

Poppyseed, I considered as being a lovely person.

Lollie, I discerned as being a genuine person.  An intelligent woman of integrity with a mind of her own, posted with freedom.  Who left the board because of ALL that has been occuring here.

I remember someone posted months ago - that just because one doesn't agree with another's expressed thoughts/opinion/worldview - that doesn't equate to a person being a 'troll  puppet'

Leah x

[Gabben]

Ami,

I'm not saying lighter is all these people.  I'm saying I have seen evidence of lighter trolling (attacking people) and these others knowingly or unknowingly may have responded to create more confusion.

bean

Dear Ami and bean,

Yes...I have seen lighter attacking people too. I have seen her taunt and make light of others peoples pain. However, I put aside my prejudice...I put aside my old ideas, I forgave and went to lighter directly to ask her the burning questions in me that had arose out of PM land and gossip.

It never quite sat in my heart that lighter was two or three other people. It never sat in my heart that lighter was a man or a troll.

Slander and gossip breed confusion and that is exactly what I had when I tried to chew on these false ideas about lighter.

Perhaps...Ami and Bean...you are both nursing a grudge towards lighter for her past bully type behavior? Sure, does it make for an unsafe board...you betcha...but as Tanaya said, the board will never be safe. If I want to be here then I have to make up my mind to side step a few landmines.

I went directly to lighter...she answered my questions directly. Is she perfect? NO....are any of us? NO.

My two cents...I'm tired of the whole lighter is three other people and lighter is a bully so let's put all of our waking energy into getting her kicked off the board so that it will be a safe place story.

If I am wrong about lighter then I'd rather face God and say "I was wrong," but at least I treated her the way the way that I would want to be treated.

Lise

[dandylife]

Dr. Grossman,

You wrote, "One other point: time is also an important factor, overlooked in the heat of the moment.  Another person’s perception that is impossible to hear in the present because of the need to defend the self, may suddenly make sense down the road.  This may take place one, two, or even three years later.  Obviously, one of the first tasks of a therapist is to learn to be patient!"

THANK YOU! so much for validating my exact feelings on this. I have been labeled in the past as a "process" person and I guess I take that to mean that it takes me a long time sometimes to process the meaning of a communication. Sometimes it's days later, and like you say, sometimes it's YEARS later. Yes!

I have stated several times in posts about what you have reminded us here of - the brain stops taking in new information when it's angry. We must learn to be patient and not respond to posts that anger, distress, and trigger us.

Huge lesson for us all.

Thank you for your board - it has been most helpful to me - all around - all of it - even the conflicts have taught me TONS.

Dandylife

[Izzy_*now*]

Gabben:

quote from Gabben
and lighter is a bully so let's put all of our waking energy into getting her kicked off the board so that it will be a safe place story.

For the sake of all that's Holy, this is the most offensive post I have read. I had to read it 2-3 times to realize you mean it?

To gang up on one women because of your unsure thoughts and following the easiest route to damn lighter.....

Quote from Gabben
If I am wrong about lighter then I'd rather face God.....

If if If if and you will not be facing God, I expect....

Quote from Gabben
....the way that I would want to be treated.

?????????

Still in shock
Izzy

[Gabben]

Gabben:

quote from Gabben
and lighter is a bully so let's put all of our waking energy into getting her kicked off the board so that it will be a safe place story.

For the sake of all that's Holy, this is the most offensive post I have read. I had to read it 2-3 times to realize you mean it?

To gang up on one women because of your unsure thoughts and following the easiest route to damn lighter.....

Quote from Gabben
If I am wrong about lighter then I'd rather face God.....

If if If if and you will not be facing God, I expect....

Quote from Gabben
....the way that I would want to be treated.

?????????

Still in shock
Izzy

Izzy -- sorry that you took  my post the wrong way -- it seems that you misread? Perhaps you could go back and carefully review it again to see better what I was saying.


Anyway...I'm not damning lighter...I like lighter.  All that is in my post above has been said to lighter in private, by me, as well as it is all over this board...nothing is new there.


Lise

[Izzy_*now*]

Quote from Izzy
For the sake of all that's Holy, this is the most offensive post I have read. I had to read it 2-3 times to realize you mean it?

See the ?

That's why I questioned it, but your wording does leave something to be desired.

[Izzy_*now*]

Hi bean

I am open to receive criticism due me, so am just asking for the example that led you to name me.

Obviously that would show me the error of my ways, but I am wondering why you are unwilling to be cooperative.

Izzy

[Sela]

Sometimes it's better for me to examine my intention before shooting off my mouth!

Well Bean, maybe it's not so much your intention (or mine or anyone's for that matter) that needs so much examining as.....

our expectations (what outcome we most desire)???

We    (speaking for what I believe of most people on this board) for the most part.....have basically good intentions.

However, what we want to happen......may not necessarily happen.  The outcome, even though our good intentions, might be quite different (and in my case 1/2 the time, unexpected or  not anticipated because I'm just not really thinking about how the other person might interpret my words or I assume they are clear words, which they are.....hahahaha.....to me).

That's another piece of the communication pie maybe? 

1. Intention
2. Expected outcome

I dunno.  I'm really trying to learn to communicate better I feel like I really have a lot to learn though and it's not for lack of trying.



You mentioned paranoia too up there.

WoooHHOOOoooooo baby paranoia!  Anyone here never experienced it?

I keep wondering if it isn't one of the most destructive results of being abused (and most common??).  Trust is destroyed and fear replaces it.

((((((((((((Bean)))))))))) another hug.

Been there.  Done that.  It's so hard to get out of that mode sometimes.  For me anyhow.  For others too I expect.


Some days I've told myself that I can trust no one, that people are just into themselves and I'm better off relating to my dogs.  I trust my dogs.


I don't want to believe that.  I consider myself a mostly positive thinker and I know deep inside my negative thoughts do not help me but some days, I really think that and feel that way anyhow.  Too many hurts?  I'm in victim mode those times I guess.   Rambling again.

Sorry I ran off track there.

Sela