Working through the detrius

[debkor]

GS,

But your not voiceless they are deaf.  You heard your voice loud and clear.  You heard your anger.  Your son was called names because you didn't Approve or Comply with your father's demands (and what a pain in the ass he was being). 

You were angry with your father and what he said.  If it helps you any So would I.  Who wouldn't be mad?  I doubt there is any one on here that wouldn't have been livid (for thier child) or even for self. 

Sometimes actions speak louder then words.  He heard you GS.  Your actions said :: this is the time I have and No to your time.
His hissy fit (was because he heard you) through your actions. 

You were just mad because he was such (a pain) and name caller...so what's not normal about being mad?  You can be ya know.
Even with his mental illness. 

Your not going backwards.
And this shall pass.

Love
Deb

[Gaining Strength]

Can't take mother's continuing BS, passive aggressive, controlling BS.  Lost my temper with her and told her I had had it.  She waits until she thinks I am out of ear shot and starts in with my son.  Reached my limit.  Have been feeling hatred towards her for some time  Hatred hurts noone but me.  Still can't help it.

Why are these feelings intensifying?????????????????

Want healing but feel sucked in by the raging.
What in the hell is going on???????????????////

[Gaining Strength]

Deb - thank you.  I hear you.  I get it.  You cannot know how long I have longed to hear what you wrote.  I didn't even know that I needed to hear those words.  What a relief!  What a gift!  Thank you.  (Those words only point to but do not come close to quantifying the gratitude I want to express to you.) 

Have you any idea how being heard heals?

I thought it would  - but to experience it is amazing.  thank you again - and - again.

[debkor]

GS,

Your welcome.

Big Hugs!!

Love to you
Deb

[sKePTiKal]

My sweet (and righteously ticked off!) friend -

I'm sorry I was gone during this, though it seems there's always someone here to hear us and comfort us in those never planned crises. I want to take what Deb said one step further - not only did your father hear you - he recognized that you are finally aware of your own boundaries and defending them. Same with your mother and you reacting - now - for all the times that you wanted to say something - and didn't. You just told them "I know what you've done to me all this time and you can't do it anymore". They will freak out. LET THEM.

It is something that needed to happen - for you. It is, to my way of thinking a huge, huge breakthrough. And yes, it feels absolutely awful while it's ongoing. Like you have no right to be angry - like you are way out of line - and no, anger isn't an enjoyable emotion at all (even without the layers of crap associated with it). When I say "anger is our best friend" it's precisely because it's the gatekeeper of boundaries - not because I like being angry.

I wasn't allowed to be angry - ever - no matter what anyone said or did to me; no matter what position they put me in. That taboo was the the very ball & chain that kept me constantly locked into playing my mom's game. I finally heard myself one day exclaim: how come it's OK for everyone else to be angry - but not me?????

Your anger and defense of boundaries, makes it unquestionably clear (and not open to interpretation)

that you won't be treated like a servant - or a child
that you won't accept being a "target" for whatever nastiness your parents want to dump on you
that you will not tolerate them treating your child this way - either and especially

And the reason being angry about their nastiness and feeling uncomfortable defending your boundaries feels so wretched -

is because you've broken the taboo, the spell they had over you, and you've clearly stated that:

YOU ARE FREE

They may not have heard that, and from my experience with my mom, I can say that you'll have to repeat this more times than your patience will understand. But the anger will diminish now. And along with the anger goes a lot of the things that sapped your energy... the obstacles that used to be in your way will gradually become insubstantial... etc joy, blessings, and all good things will become so much EASIER now.

You too, are allowed to be angry when you are treated unfairly. You know and can validate for yourself that you tried to be accommodating to your Dad's physical issues. The fact that he had a meltdown because you are no longer "commandable" - is solely his problem. YOU didn't make him have a meltdown - it's his illness. All you did, was state the facts of your boundary.

You've fought long and hard to define what your boundaries are; who you are. Don't cave now out of a misplaced feeling that somehow you were wrong; you weren't wrong. The meltdowns and nastiness are exactly how they keep you on that razor's edge or tightrope of self-doubt. You dad acted like a jackass. Your mom's more subtle - but her nastiness and judging can be just as lethal. And the anger you feel can be spent and exercised and moved past, in a fantasy anger-room where you allow yourself to engage that one-woman riot and even direct it at the real cause. So that the intensity dies down...

but I'll second the motion, that you are fully justified in being nuclear-meltdown angry! And it's your right as a human being to be this angry over the years and years of this crap. It is how you claim your own freedom to be you and that "you" is good and allowed to set your own standards for what is/isn't acceptable to YOU.

Soon, you'll able to just say: nyah-nyah-----nyah-nyah!

[Hopalong]

HOO-ahh! (To quote Al Pacino from Scent of a Woman).

The only mite I would add is in addition to owning the legitimacy of your own anger...be sure, sure, sure to protect M. from explosions.

(IOW, find a safe neutral place to VENT it, so he won't internalize it, be afraid of it, and perpetuate the cycle by believing it's somehow his fault if you are feeling enraged. The way kids naturally do.)

xo
Hops

[Gaining Strength]

Slipping into some kind of a dark hole.  Not depression but rage.  Set off by small accummalate.

End of rope.  no help. 

part of it I can see comes from the history of demands and expectations from my parents that started at birth.  NC isn't the issue, my "hop-to sense of over responsibility" comes from that and it is killing me.  This is a kind of boundary issue that I have been aware of and have been chipping away at, making progress but now am on my knees. Can't take any more.

for instance: my mother called last night - her cleaning crew was coming today - she needed me to come and pick up a toy that my son left on the floor.  I said ok.  This morning my child who has insomnia was still exhausted from a night of no sleep on Sunday and so I let him sleep.  I heard the phone ringing.  Knew it was my mother.    The pressure between her demands and my son's schools refusal to understand that the letter from his doctor about insomnia stands for something caused me to snap.  Guess who got the brunt?  my child.

I am so angry.  Truly at my low.

(even feeling overwhelmed about not being able to read and respond to those of you who need and deserve encouragement as well.  My sincerest apologies.)

[sKePTiKal]

Sweetie - you're allowed to "need" too; you're allowed to be at the center of the nurturing amazons until you're ready to get up again, on your own.

DO NOT make the same mistake of beating yourself up about perceived "lack of progress" or about being angry (MY GOODNESS - who wouldn't be angry at such rediculous demands as your mother made??), or even about being volatile and near explosion for little, piled on, irritations. What are you? A stoic saint? Rant, kick and scream into a journal - here - in a mental, imaginary "anger room"... until it subsides and dissapates. Until you get the fire out of your veins. Find your angry voice. You're allowed to have one, even if you don't use it very often.

I'm gonna say it again: you're ALLOWED to be angry. Because you don't have a lot of practice with anger - you might be a bit awkward about dealing with it. I was, for sure. You simply can't expect yourself to be the master of an emotion you were prohibited from expressing or feeling. Trial and error - finding what works for you - will give you more control over this and pretty quickly. Apologize to your son - but, you probably already thought of and did that. That will help.

This kind of anger is a pretty intense emotion, especially when it's been bottled up for so long - it also gets stale & rancid (I'm on a food kick, can ya tell?) - but IT WASHES OFF. The important thing is that you are able to feel deeply and develop strategies for managing ALL of the emotions - not just the ones you've been limited to all this time. The full rainbow of emotions...

and not have a secondary reaction kick in about whether it's "appropriate" to feel this or not. You're as human as I am and at different times, we humans will feel all the emotions... some may be unpleasant, but there are no inherently "good" or "bad" emotions. They are just feelings - our hearts and souls and psyches - speaking to the universe and being in relationship with life - and feelings rise up and fade away, all the time - without "doing" anything about them.

Sometimes anger IS appropriate. Sometimes anger is NECESSARY.
But the other piece - the voice that puts oneself down for being angry - is the internalized voice of an incompetent parent who denies you the right to feel your feelings. Feelings aren't the same as behavior. Behavior can be good or bad... but not feelings... not who you ARE.

[Hopalong]

Just want to be sure I didn't come across as suggesting you shouldn't feel, respect, or release your anger, GS...
I don't recommend that at ALL.

I think going out to the woods and beating a tree into splinters is right.
I think finding a secluded spot and screaming is right.
Drawing or painting explosive Pollocky art is right.
Exercising yourself into exhaustion is right.
Naming it and claiming it without shame, with M or anybody else, is right.

There are many "rights" in terms of how to respect, and release, your feelings.

My only caveat is that I believe witnessing rage is harmful and frightening to children.
I do believe that.

My only point about that is to take care of yourself, and M, when your anger feels like RAGE and is about your own childhood and your parents, not your son's...then you could go without M to safe and protective spaces
where you can release all you need to, without concern about its effect on him.

Mama will come home drained afterward, and much more relaxed. And that will be good for you both!

It's also excellent to teach him that anger is one of our human feelings and there's nothing whatsoever wrong with feeling angry. That mirroring language: I feel angry when ___, etc.

You can also teach him what are good ideas for getting rid of anger safely without harming yourself or anyone else. He may have some great suggestions. He's going to need the same skills in order to grow up whole and know how to negotiate his way successfully in relationships, jobs, etc.

love,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Hops' point about anger & children makes sense - and it also provides you an opportunity to learn while teaching.

And to be clear - there is a big difference between that old, putrid anger that has accumulated into a big stinky pile over the years & years and multiple boundary intrusions - and preventions, prohibitions and denials of rights... and just being worn down by multiple little life things going wrong. The anger "tastes" different. Both are very clearly real - but the latter is a lot more "comfortable" to deal with than the former.

So, how're you doing? I'm blathering what feels like platitudes into the cyberworld (even tho' I get reminders of my own old anger still) - and maybe you've already got it squared away, huh?

[Gaining Strength]

CB - minor point but my mother didn't demand that my son pick the toy up she asked me to.  The problem is that she is not able.  She is on a walker and this was a lego creation on a lego board that was 1 x 3 ft.  But really, either my son needed to pick it up or the lovely Peruvian couple who clean for her. The insanity is that I didn't see that until too late.

I know where I get this sense of over-responsibility.  Clearly an issue begging for help.

PR and Hops - thanks for giving me permission.  It is just yucky to be in this place.  I know it will pass.  I know it is years of accumulated pus coming to a head, about to burst.  But a bursted boil is one way towards a healing boil, so ....

I have this thought that my mother has some brain dysfunction akin to Asperger's.  I remember all of my growing up that my father would be exasperated at my mother for not getting something.  All these years I have attributed it to his problems but now I am seeing another part to it.  If I am frazzled, my mother clearly doesn't get it and she just comes right up as though we are on a stroll in the park and introduces new subjects, completely unaware of what I am doing.  Now that I am starting to think in these terms I see that she has never noticed what is going on with me - not my emotional state, not my financial state, not any aspect of what is going on in my life.  I have taken it personally and been so angered about it all my life but I'm starting to think that she simply is not capable of being aware of what is going on with me. 

I don't know.  This concept is so new.  Up until now it has been just another aspect of "voicelessness" and being completely ignored but I'm starting to think there is something diagnosably wrong here.  Wouldn't that be something!

[sKePTiKal]

Now that I am starting to think in these terms I see that she has never noticed what is going on with me - not my emotional state, not my financial state, not any aspect of what is going on in my life.  I have taken it personally and been so angered about it all my life but I'm starting to think that she simply is not capable of being aware of what is going on with me. 

It really would be something, and something monumentally freeing for you probably... to be able - if not out & out diagnose her - then at least be able to say "she falls pretty well into this category of symptoms". What you've described, I see in my mom a good bit, too. Like I don't exist as a real person to her, you know? Just some character in her make-believe story - not flesh & blood, and independent thought & emotion. It may be, that this is a result of being in a relationship with an N (for my mom, anyway). You and I know, this isn't the only option or choice... but for my mom, it is the choice she made.

Conversely - I feel as though I'm an orphan; as if "that woman who gave birth to me" is some alien-imposter; not my mother at all. No matter what I say, do, or feel - I simply can't make her into my mother either. So, when I have an opportunity to know and be in a relationship with someone like my MIL... I go a little overboard; I feel like I've been starved for that relationship all my life, you know? In reality, though - I've found lots of willing and caring substitutes.

And those "adopted moms" are all cherished for the simple reason that they cared about me, in some way. That really helps soothe the anger some. But it's the realization - deep down - that there is some lack of capacity; something "not normal" about my mom that acts as a fresh ocean breeze to blow away the anger clouds. It's beyond me to be able diagnose it completely... but it's also indisputable that it's something about her - that I can not change. I can't very well expect a rock to change and to care about me, my life or my needs. But I can change me... and you are changing you, too.

Your process is picking up energy, clarity and momentum, GS. You keep bustin' through the hurdles one after another in rapid succession... difficult, trying hurdles... but ultimately excellent work!! I'm very impressed - but not surprised; I knew you could do this!

[Gaining Strength]

I see the "not about me" concept. 
This  requires some thought and thinking about.
Still need for grieving the (can't say loss b/c I never had) missing, longing for, need of mother nurturing.

In me is some thing that is so angry that noone cared that i did not have a father nor a mother who cared.
It is interpreted into my bones, my cells - that I did not deserve.
 That is part of the core of my rage - everyone else deserved/deserves except me.

I have a splitting headached - sinus infection - took child on boyscout bicycle overnight.  Temps dipped below 20 degrees.  Just wretched. Paying for it today.

[Hopalong]

Yes ((((((GS)))))))...

but

did not have

does not mean

did not deserve.

It just ... was how it happened.

Like weather. A tsunami.

But you survived. You made it onto the beach.

You can go inland, upland, even to another island.

You can relive the tsunami of disappointment over and over and over...

or see pehaps you are becoming bored with it?

love,
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Chiming in here... at the tail end of what Hops' said, so succinctly...

"not ever having" is most definitely a loss... and your instinct to grieve this... spot on. And (I'm doing a lot of "supposing" here) I think not grieving this leaves a big ole' lump of obstacle that just gets in the way.

There is a layer of pain that surrounds the "not ever having" that appears to have all the characteristics of a black hole - but that layer isn't very thick - if one goes straight through that into looking at the significance of the fact - "I grew up without the benefit of __________." - and begins to place that "fact" into the context of one's self, JUST ONE characteristic of one's self, like freckles or the shape of one's eyes - then that one fact doesn't stand out anymore as insurmountable, as a curse, as a big secret, as something that will inexorably mark one for life. It is only one circumstance or condition of how you became YOU... and there are so many more, you know? As a child, it's easy to forget that today's woe isn't permanent. (yeah, that's one thing parents are for...) But we are sooooooooo much more than the significance of one individual fact about us.

But this particular loss does require being singled out, paid special very gentle and loving attention. I've found that I have to remember to honor my own loss of "not ever having"... so that I don't reflexively shrink away from connecting to other sources of the exact kind of maternal energy and deny myself feeling that now... claiming "I'm OK" - "I'm tough enough" - "I don't need this"... I shrink back, precisely because of that thin, intense membrane of pain that surrounds the loss. When I can let go and go through the pain - and just connect - it's like breathing fresh air for the first time.

Over time, that layer of pain has gotten thinner, less intense, and is fading.

Just go easy with this, GS. Cut yourself some slack - if you're ill it will only magnify the emotions. Give yourself a specific amount of time a day to address it - and don't set an expectation for when you'll be "done with it". Over time, all the different aspects or facets on the "lump of coal" will come up - each one addressed in turn; grieved; accepted; put into a new place - context - and then you'll notice that the coal has transformed into a jewel... that instead of blotting out all light & good, radiates it throughout yourself and your life.