Narcissistic Personality Disorder may be included in DSM-5

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Hi Everybody,

Apparently, there was some “pushback” when it was learned that the Narcissistic Personality Disorder diagnosis was slated to be eliminated from DSM-5.  See:

http://www.clinicalpsychiatrynews.com/newsletter/the-cognoscenti/singleview40695/dsm-5-might-get-fewer-personality-disorders/0ac24f44c4.html

I'm glad to hear the news...

Richard

[Hopalong]

Maybe they were reading YOUR board here, Doc G!

Kudos and I can imagine your relief...

Hops

[BonesMS]

Thanks, Dr. G!  It does sound as if they have been reading your Board!

Bones

[sunblue]

I sure hope Dr. Oldham is right and they are going to keep NPD in the DSM-5.  Just because a disorder is difficult to treat, it doesn't mean it should be ignored.  I've seen nothing but growing evidence that narcissism is increasingly becoming a problem in society from personal relationships to the workplace.  So many people are affected this disorder, not those who are diagnosed with it.  Let's keep our collective voiceless fingers crossed.

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

Thanks, Hops and Bones, but I can guarantee that I played no part in the decision making process.  Still, I’ll be glad if they keep the diagnosis, mostly, as Sunblue suggests, for the benefit of those who are in relationships with (love, family, work, etc.) or serving (chambermaiding, housekeeping, etc.) those with the disorder.

Richard

[sKePTiKal]

Purely academic question:

if there is a name for the sick person and what's wrong with them (NPD, etc)... how come we don't have an agreed upon name for the people who are so affected by them beyond "voiceless", "abused", survivors, victims, etc??

I mean, Ns are so sure there's nothing wrong with them they seldom become clients... and those of us who've been wounded and scarred, sometimes for life ... and CAN get better and want to desperately... get lumped together into a category of the "emotionally abused"... and the mainstream approach to that is, is here: take an anti-depressant or grow up & get over it - it was a long time ago...

yet, someone with attachment issues needs a different approach than someone who was sexually abused; different yet again if you were the GC or the Cinderella in the dysfunctional FOO script. Dissociation adds another layer of difficulty to the "prescription" plan of talk-treatment... and the relationship role in which one was abused matters as well. Child, lover, subordinate worker...

Even here, amongst ourselves, it's easy to see that we are different and have different needs - the holes in our cups are located in slightly different places; no one size fits all Rx is around to just pull off the shelf and hand someone. And many of us are so fragile, at least at one time or another, a therapist can't really make a mistake without threatening the whole healing relationship...

There ought to be Purple Heart medals for therapists - those who've gone into battle with their clients and risked their own peace and serenity walking through sheer hell with them, to get them to safety.

Thanks for all you do, Dr. G.

[BonesMS]

Purely academic question:

if there is a name for the sick person and what's wrong with them (NPD, etc)... how come we don't have an agreed upon name for the people who are so affected by them beyond "voiceless", "abused", survivors, victims, etc??

I mean, Ns are so sure there's nothing wrong with them they seldom become clients... and those of us who've been wounded and scarred, sometimes for life ... and CAN get better and want to desperately... get lumped together into a category of the "emotionally abused"... and the mainstream approach to that is, is here: take an anti-depressant or grow up & get over it - it was a long time ago...

yet, someone with attachment issues needs a different approach than someone who was sexually abused; different yet again if you were the GC or the Cinderella in the dysfunctional FOO script. Dissociation adds another layer of difficulty to the "prescription" plan of talk-treatment... and the relationship role in which one was abused matters as well. Child, lover, subordinate worker...

Even here, amongst ourselves, it's easy to see that we are different and have different needs - the holes in our cups are located in slightly different places; no one size fits all Rx is around to just pull off the shelf and hand someone. And many of us are so fragile, at least at one time or another, a therapist can't really make a mistake without threatening the whole healing relationship...

There ought to be Purple Heart medals for therapists - those who've gone into battle with their clients and risked their own peace and serenity walking through sheer hell with them, to get them to safety.

Thanks for all you do, Dr. G.

Hear, hear!!!!!!

[Dr. Richard Grossman]

if there is a name for the sick person and what's wrong with them (NPD, etc)... how come we don't have an agreed upon name for the people who are so affected by them beyond "voiceless", "abused", survivors, victims, etc??

I don't know, I kinda like "voiceless"  !

(I hope I don't have to change the name of my web site...)

Thanks as always, PR and Bones!

Richard

[BonesMS]

if there is a name for the sick person and what's wrong with them (NPD, etc)... how come we don't have an agreed upon name for the people who are so affected by them beyond "voiceless", "abused", survivors, victims, etc??

I don't know, I kinda like "voiceless"  !

(I hope I don't have to change the name of my web site...)

Thanks as always, PR and Bones!

Richard

You're welcome, Dr. G!

Bones

[sKePTiKal]

You'll let us know when "voiceless" is considered for inclusion in the DSM, won't you?  (just kidding!)

It's as good or better than anything I could think of! And it doesn't seem to have overly negative connotations of other words that are used. Even "survivor" implies a struggle - and yet many of us struggled against the wrong things; or simply accepted what we had no way of knowing was "wrong" or dysfunctional.

I just have this thing about "naming" things and definitions... that there is power in the name and that words have more power than we realize; we take words for granted too often. Just had to look up the difference between "confidence" and "competence", for instance. They seem to each be a side of a two-way mirror - reflecting onto, into, and back - each other... except, that it's possible to feel confident - but not be competent... and also be competent, without any confidence.

Interesting conundrum.

[OnlyMe]

Yes, "Voiceless" indeed.
And I hand you the biggest Purple Heart Medal, with thanks, Dr. G.

Having my doctor Recognize and Identify NPD in my parents, and giving it a name, was a life-changing moment for me. 

I keep coming back to this board, for the reassurance that indeed, it is NP who created tremendous Chaos and all the pain that goes with it ... and that I am not the 'crazy one'.  As an "only" child with no other family, I had very few terms of reference for "normal" family relationships, unfortunately.

Yes, Dr. G, "Voiceless" it is.
In fact, as I think back, it was by entering "voiceless" in a search engine years ago, that I found you, and all these other wonderful souls.  You each have been, and still remain, part of a Lifeline for me.

Thank you, All.
 

[Guest]

Well said OM.

[mudpuppy]

Hi OnlyMe,

I hope I don't offend nor reveal myself as a sadist or reveler in schadenfreude but, re your tagline, Romans 12:19 says;

"Vengeance is mine, I will repay, saith the Lord."

I hope it doesn't make me a chump to say the center phrase of that verse gives me a certain uncomfortable pleasure.

mud

[OnlyMe]

Hello Mudpuppy,

I had forgotten I had that as part of my signature.  Haven't been here in a while.
Truth is, I was repeating the Late Indian Larry's neck tattoo (which was inked in reverse so he could read it in his rear-view mirror while riding his custom motorcycles).
It seemed to resonate with me and brought me a bit of comfort, at a time when I was feeling completely helpless against the ongoing abuse ... so I bought the tshirt!

Time has passed, and I am now neither voiceless nor invisible.
Maybe time for a new tagline.
Thank you for noticing.

In a lovely way, once again, this wonderful message board is a reminder that I am not the only one on earth in this situation.  What a blessing in itself. Thank You, All.

~OnlyMe

[mudpuppy]

Truth is, I was repeating the Late Indian Larry's neck tattoo (which was inked in reverse so he could read it in his rear-view mirror while riding his custom motorcycles).

Well since Indian Larry is now late I guess it's safe to say objects in his mirror were closer than they appeared.

mud