Advice for a "friend"

[lighter]

So, this "friend" has a daughter, roughly 17yo, who's gotten herself into a bit of trouble recently with underage drinking, and a party raided by the police who gave out citations for underage drinking.  This is a class 1 misdemeanor, and can show up on their record when college, jobs, or armed services opportunites/dreams are in the mix.

This young person was very on board with being grounded, doing a course on alcohol education, and being very careful.  Typically this child is very polite, and kind, and part of the family, but THIS child is dating what could be described as an N, perhaps something with even less empathy.  It's not clear,  but what is clear is this child's dating friend is upset he was caught,  he's upset he has to suffer a jot bc of the charges, and he's quite certain the rules do not apply to him.

He's also demanding his girlfriend go against the rules WITH him, and he's insisting that she insist her parents BLESS HIS WISHES.  This lovely 17yo has dropped to levels of emotional terrorism the parents did not see coming.  Attacking the last 15 years of parenting.  Demanded the parents shut up, told them she hates talking to them.... then reiterated... she f*cking hates talking to them.  She said they made her want to commit suicide, then stormed into the school on Thursday, refusing to go to school on Friday at all.

Several attempts to talk the parents into compliance have been made, with the Parents holding their ground,  refusing to argue, but just restating overnight visits have to be supervised, and they'll not send their dd17 to a home where the parents are away, particularly when those parents told the likely N bf that he's strictly forbidden from having people over while the parents are gone.

The parents send an e mail to the Nboy, and he ignored it.   The message said their dd wouldn't be allowed to attend overnights without supervision.  That the boy was invited to spend time at their home.  The parents phoned the N boy's parents and got on the same page with their rules, and how they'll handle the legal problem.

I think the Nboy is refusing to go to the girl's home, bc he feels he can skirt his parent's rules...which he absolutely can.  He feels his friends should and will be able to do the same, and that's a problem, bc the girl sees the parents and their boundaries as the problem.  Not that the boy asks her to defy the rules with him, which is major trouble for her, particularly with the court hearing coming up.

The parents of the girl haven't actually ratted the boy out to his parents YET.  They think about it.  They're hoping the boy calms down, stops asking the girl to break the rules with him, and follows the rules, at least for now.  This boy will be a rule breaker.  He's charasmatic, and everyone wants a piece of him.... he's one of those shiny bright things that draw people to him like a moth to flame.

He WILL eventually hurt the girl, but right now he's convinced her the parents are the problem.

I think it will be all out alienating war if the girls' parents rat the boy out, with clarity.  They've told the parents to have neighbor's keep an eye on their home to make sure the boy is following the rules, bc the parents are gone a lot.  The boy gets very little supervision, and plans to run his parent's home like a bachelor pad.  That's SO HARD for his girlfriend to make peace with, bc I think there are many other girls who'd fill her place,  and the N bf has a history of cheating.  The gf KNOWS this,  but she's lost her senses, IMO.

I know boundaries have to be enforced, but these parents are allergic to conflict.   It;s very difficult. 

Any advice will be very welcome.

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Oh lighter, this sounds awful, and I'm afraid I haven't got any useful advice at all.  It sounds like one of those awful situations where the young lady won't tire of him until he does something awful (maybe cheating?) or dumps her.  It's very difficult with people of their age as they're young adults so can't be locked in their bedrooms anymore.  I think the parents have done all the sensible things so far with not allowing her to stay over with him (although can they enforce that?  I'd left home at 17, I'm just wondering if they would actually be able to stop her staying out, given her age?) and contacting the parents etc.  I agree that ratting him out would probably just escalate the situation (and what/how much can they do?  Particularly if they're away a lot).  Very difficult when kids start making choices that we don't agree with or want them to make but I think going off the rails is part and parcel of growing up and unfortunately I can't think of anything else to suggest that might make any useful difference.  I can only hope that either he dumps her or that she finds out he went with someone else at one of his parties and dumps him.  It's a very difficult situation and the sort of thing I'm not looking forward to having to deal with at some point   Sorry not to be more use xx

[lighter]

Thanks for reading through that disjointed post, Tupp.  It's not easy to follow.  Sorry.

The 17yo young lady is being super friendly right now, and participating in cooking,  meals,  and planning a movie for this evening with her mother.  She asked friends to come too, but that apparently fell through.  I'm afraid her friends are planning a gathering at the N boy's house, and she'll feel left out.

I agree the boy will likely have to do to this young lady what he's done to his previous girl friends.  Cheated, sent dick pics to other girls, and been cruel.... I've actually seen this young man make his first gf cry in public on several occasions.  Whatever reason he has, he's snarky, and cruel once he's comfortable, and the girl lets him know he can do anything, and get away with it. 

I'm hoping the girl SEES her parents have provided a reasonable set of rules that provide social interaction.  That the boy is not doing her any favors by asking her to break the rules, and continue behavior the courts will hold against her.  I don't know if it's a game with the Nboy and the girl's parents... that the boy likes inciting chaos, OR if he's just doing his thing, and he cares so little for her that he isn't interested in making her life easier.  He'd rather throw her world into chaos, and get his way, than follow the rules, and keep her life on track, and peaceful. 

I think the girl worries the boy will get with other girls, if she's not around to keep an eye on him.  I think she's likely to blame the parents, but she's smart.  She might figure it out.  She might decide his demands or lack of caring isn't working for her. 

Thanks for your thoughts, Tupp.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Yikes. This is such a difficult scenario, because of her almost-adult age. They sense it and the defiance just is strengthened by the tantalizing 18th bday coming near.

This may be lame, but I would look for excellent books aimed at teenaged girls either in or at risk of being in an abusive dating/bf relationship. Sometimes, I think daughters can take in some adult advice or wisdom about boys better from a book, rather than directly from parents.

There's something independent about reading a book or books, and pondering it on your own. Rather than responding to instructions, lectures or advice from adults in their lives. Books like this, for example: https://www.amazon.com/Habits-Highly-Effective-Teens/dp/1476764662/ref=pd_sbs_14_3/140-8008655-8608924?_encoding=UTF8&pd_rd_i=1476764662&pd_rd_r=62003e7a-5eb7-495b-a1c1-f7d153b95134&pd_rd_w=kE0b6&pd_rd_wg=jNFEI&pf_rd_p=d66372fe-68a6-48a3-90ec-41d7f64212be&pf_rd_r=0GYVHNGCE099B31M53C0&psc=1&refRID=0GYVHNGCE099B31M53C0

That help any?

Hops

[Twoapenny]

Thanks for reading through that disjointed post, Tupp.  It's not easy to follow.  Sorry.

The 17yo young lady is being super friendly right now, and participating in cooking,  meals,  and planning a movie for this evening with her mother.  She asked friends to come too, but that apparently fell through.  I'm afraid her friends are planning a gathering at the N boy's house, and she'll feel left out.

I agree the boy will likely have to do to this young lady what he's done to his previous girl friends.  Cheated, sent dick pics to other girls, and been cruel.... I've actually seen this young man make his first gf cry in public on several occasions.  Whatever reason he has, he's snarky, and cruel once he's comfortable, and the girl lets him know he can do anything, and get away with it. 

I'm hoping the girl SEES her parents have provided a reasonable set of rules that provide social interaction.  That the boy is not doing her any favors by asking her to break the rules, and continue behavior the courts will hold against her.  I don't know if it's a game with the Nboy and the girl's parents... that the boy likes inciting chaos, OR if he's just doing his thing, and he cares so little for her that he isn't interested in making her life easier.  He'd rather throw her world into chaos, and get his way, than follow the rules, and keep her life on track, and peaceful. 

I think the girl worries the boy will get with other girls, if she's not around to keep an eye on him.  I think she's likely to blame the parents, but she's smart.  She might figure it out.  She might decide his demands or lack of caring isn't working for her. 

Thanks for your thoughts, Tupp.

Lighter

Hops' idea of some reading material is good, Lighter, I wouldn't have thought of that.

Yep, sadly I think most of us have fallen for a bad boy at one time or another and suffered because of it.  It's almost like a rite of passage, unfortunately, which doesn't make it any easier to watch someone else go through it.  He sounds like he enjoys the control he has and showing that he can get people to behave out of character and then just walk away and do it again to someone else.  He probably likes the thrill of all that upset and unpleasantness.  I have been with men like this myself.  It's difficult when you're young - the excitement and glamour of being with the one everyone wants to be with is so intoxicating, drug like, in my opinion.  And all that excitement and first time experience makes it hard to listen to the experiences of parents (who are always boring old farts in their teenage off-springs opinion).  The younger ones don't see the same dangers that we do, because they haven't had the same experience yet, so their antennae doesn't ping up and make them walk away.  It's hard, but she'll probably have to have a hefty fall from grace to learn from this.  Just please ask her parents to check she's using contraception, the last thing she needs is to fall pregnant by this doofus (or catch something hideous from him, as he's so free and easy with his affections).  Yuk.  I want to come over there and punch him myself.  Hate seeing people go through this and knowing there's so little anyone else can do to make someone see sense, but hopefully she will soon xx

[lighter]

When I was volunteering at the girls elementary school I set up classes for parents.  Typically around Positive Discipline, but also about violence.  The statistics on violence in dating were abysmal.  So many girls expect to be abused, and they don't question it.

I think educating young women and men is brilliant, Hops.

When we know better, we DO better, right?

Lighter

Update:

The 17yo calmed down, and treated her parents with love, and respect since the last blow up.  They cooked meals together, ate together, went out on a drive together, and considered going to a movie together. 

All this time, 17yo girl didn't mention the boy, until she said the boy was considering visiting her at her home now.

Today the girl said the boy wants to come over in order to avoid spending time with his parents, who return from a trip today.   

The parents said they'd pick up the boy.  They're just releived dd17 didn't sneak out of the house, or demand to go to the boy's place, bc it was looking like that might be the plan.

IF the kids fall into the basic rules, that's the best these parents can hope for... is the sense I get.  They really want the kids to follow the rules, get through the legal stuff, and for sure not end up pregnant.