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Advice Re: Low Contact?
KayZee:
Hi everybody,
I just wondered if anyone out there has advice about low contact?
Without going into too much detail. . .I guess you could say I've been trying to keep my NM at an emotional distance for the past year or so. I return her few-times-a-week text messages, but try to only talk with her on the phone once every 2-3 weeks if I can help it. We've actually been visiting more than we used to in the past. Like, I see her every one and half months, which is still way more than I'd like. But, hey, I think I've come a long way in emotionally separating from her, not letting her intimidate or manipulate me as much as she used to. Not in any way expecting kindness or empathy from her, not divulging blatant sore spots she can use to hurt me. I think I've mentioned here before, I'd love to go NC, but still feel too fearful about it. I fear she really would come after my family and me, stalk us, force us to file restraining orders, snatch my kids away from the schoolyard or something.
Anyway, NM just keeps getting clingier and pushier, more trash-talking about me to the rest of my family. Maybe it's getting worse because she knows I'm not giving her the same kind of attention and affirmation? Or maybe she has a deficit of N-supply because she's been out of work for a year? This is no exaggeration: every single freaking week this month, she has texted me to say she wants to come visit. (Even though we just saw her at the end of July.) I keep shutting her down, saying 'no' "I'm sorry;" "we're too busy with work;" "it's not a good time". . . all true. I've also told her she needs to give DH and I way more notice (she keeps asking to stay one day before she wants to arrive).
These boundaries don't seem to be working. At this point in our relationship, I've chosen LC over NC because I didn't want to have to tell her outright "I DON"T WANT TO SEE YOU." But I'm now wondering if I need to find the strength/guts to have a conversation where I ask NM something like: "What do you want our relationship to look like? How much contact? How many visits etc.?" And I tell her something like: "Here's my level of commitment: I want to see you only at major holidays. If and when we meet up, we will meet on neutral territory; I don't want you to stay at my house." This is still sort of unthinkable to me. But at the moment, I am desperate. I am so sick of fighting her off every four days. I am so sick of her persistent desire to get into my head, house, work-time, marriage, family and mess me up.
She is really turning my family against me too, but I expect that would only get worse. Yesterday, my Dad was really nasty to me on the phone ("We were going to come visit you. . . but seeing as your too busy..." (la di da tone in his voice.) Though, I suspect it was for NM's benefit. She was right there in the background, chiming in.
That's a conversation for a different thread, but I'm more depressed and angry about Dad than NM these days. When she goes away on a trip, Dad calls me drunk every evening to chat and pour his heart out. And then, when she's around, he either ignores me/pretends I'm dead or mirrors NM's nastiness and abuse. I have compassion for him, too. I know where he's coming from and that he's just scared of her the same way that I am. But it hurts like a knife. Maybe I've neglected this part of my healing work, focusing so often on my feelings about NM and never about Dad.
Gah, anyway. . . Sorry for the rant. Thanks again for listening. I just wondered: Tell NM I am aiming for LC? Or just keep defending my boundaries on a bi-weekly basis, no matter how much the pressure and manipulation is grinding me and DH down? Will she ever give up? It feels like she'll NEVER let it be!
Just wanna be free (when will I ever be free of this? when will she ever stop poking and prodding at me?)
Kay x
SilverLining:
Hi KayZee.
Low contact is pretty much the approach I have taken with my entire FOO. And like you I've often wondered if a stronger more defined approach is better (like maybe taking a job at an Antarctic research station). But NC brings its own set of issues. If I made an official declaration of NC, then they are going to peg me a certain way (probably as an evil black sheep or something like that), and it's going to affect every relationship with every relative I have. The resulting constant conflict and opposition would actually tie me deeper into the whole N family process. Every contact with any of them would end up focusing on the NC situation. So it seems best to just press forward with the LC in spite of resistance.
In my early 50's now, I'm finally learning to make use of polite but firms ways of managing the interactions. Conversations are limited to 15 minutes or so, and then I tell them I'm driving into a tunnel and have to hang up, or I have an appointment to go to, or the cell phone battery is dying. :) Actual visits are infrequent formal occasions such as holidays. And when they press for more I just say no, I have some other obligation to attend to.
It's a long hard process, but I believe they do eventually learn something and start letting things be. If I make myself into difficult prey, they move onto other targets. And I can turn my attention to more satisfying relationships. It's kind of a Zen approach to the whole thing. Be like water and flow around the problem, eventually even the hardest rock is dissolved.
BonesMS:
I hear you, KayZee!
One of the things I've learned, the hard way, when dealing with N's is that, both N's and their Co-N's, will NEVER hear you! They are so self-centered and self-absorbed that they will NEVER recognize other people as human beings WITH BOUNDARIES. Their "world-view", (for lack of a better description), is that you, your DH, your children, your jobs, your time, etc. are THEIR PROPERTY to be USED for their own self-gratification.
Bones
KayZee:
Whew. . . Thank you, Silver. It's a relief to know I'm not alone. It's just so intense at the moment. And I still feel so guilty every time I say politely say 'no' or erect a boundary. (This is my own B.S., of course. I need to work on that old "assert-and-relax" exercise.) But fighting her off over and over, with no real breaks in between, is maddening. And it doesn't help when NM activates her grapevine and gets the rest of the family guilt-tripping me. NM has already poisoned my relationships with most of my family, so the damage is already done. I probably shouldn't let fear dictate my life.
KayZee:
Amen, Bones.
--- Quote ---They are so self-centered and self-absorbed that they will NEVER recognize other people as human beings WITH BOUNDARIES. Their "world-view", (for lack of a better description), is that you, your DH, your children, your jobs, your time, etc. are THEIR PROPERTY to be USED for their own self-gratification.
--- End quote ---
This is so frustrating! I hate that feeling of being objectified!
In this case, I don't even feel like the desired object anymore. I feel like the tool (like a chopstick) that NM and co-N enabling Dad want to use to get to who (in their minds: what) they really want (my kids). My kids are toddlers and just beginning to find their voices, their separation, their defiance and anger (of course none of this comes into play with the grandparents). As far as NM is concerned, my three-year-old daughter and one-year-old son are the perfect sources of N-supply. Oh how NM loves to play games with them (NM taught my DD to call her "Momma"). At least, NM "loves" them until they fall down, scrape a knee and come running to DH or I for a hug (that's when NM launches in on how manipulative and fake DD's emotions are).
Agggggghhhhh. I can't live the rest of my adult life wresting this parasite demon dragon-woman off of me. What is the point? Why do I even put up with it? Probably because, as long as I'm LC and civil, I can persist in telling myself I'm not the 'bad girl' NM always taught me I was.
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