Explanation

[Hopalong]

I'm so glad you're still finding time to experience the amazing power of spring, Skep...

May soft ocean breezes bring you many moments of pause-for-peace, despite the
cauldron your family's been plopped in.

hugs
Hops

[JustKathy]

(It's not paranoid to want to protect your privacy, in my book!)

No, it's not paranoid at all. Paranoia, by definition, is an irrational or delusional fear. In our cases, we KNOW that our N parents are watching us. Our concerns are very real, so we're being being perfectly rational in wanting to protect our privacy.

[sKePTiKal]

Kathy, we sure nuff know we have to go out of our way to protect ourselves. Sometimes from the Ns... and I find, also... sometimes from my reaction to the Ns. My reaction to the Ns can be even worse to endure that the incident that provoked it.

And there are so many FLAVORS of N-ism... I'm starting to get curious about the difference. I'm gonna guess that each individual N is his or her own unique combination of multiple "isms" and dysfunctions... and that the reasons are all unique circumstances too (even if the reactions, adoption of the specific defense mechanism, all start to look like there's a pattern in it). Before, it was enough for me to know they were dangerous to my own sanity... and give them as wide a berth as I could. This situation is different.

I think the one characteristic that drives me 'round the bend, up walls, and gets me bouncing off ceilings screaming angry is the ability to live in a delusional reality... and cling to it in the face of evidence to the contrary. (One of many reasons I'll never be able to do any counseling! LOL!!) Don't really understand why my reaction is SOOOOOOOOO extreme; maybe it has something to do with how it feels, when one tells the truth - and then is told "that didn't happen"; when one is not believed and gaslighted... one questions one's own sanity. And that is so scary to me, that I reach for my old double-edged sword of angry outrage. Dunno.

I managed to sit on this, during all the face to face meetings. Not so, the phone call a couple days ago. Again, I was "good" during the call - but it was the reaction AFTER that's caused the delay in posting the update. Which I'm going to go write, now. Hope it's coherent... there is still extreme emotion behind the thoughts.

[Hopalong]

I get that...it reminds me of denial, as in alcoholic denial.
The N-denial, alcoholic denial, feel exactly the same.
Reality = one thing, their ability to face or acknowledge it = another.

I read more, over the years, about alcoholism than about Nism, really.

One thing that kind of impacted me, eventually, was the belated comprehension
that denial (which sounds like something coming from the mind, as it's expressed
in words and behavior) is actually a SYMPTOM in the truly medical sense.

So, when I would hear my friend Gennulman circling around and around,
ignoring facts, just going kind of blank about an obvious conclusion when
anyone not sick with alcoholism would be able to say Yes, this is real, and
1 + 1 DOES equal Consequence 2...he literally couldn't.

Came to me where I realized I was profoundly stuck on believing that
his "couldn't" was a "wouldn't" ...but perhaps his "couldn't" really was a
"couldn't" and that "couldn't" in each moment he expressed it, was the symptom of denial.

Like a diabetic who SOMETIMES has low blood sugar symptoms, but not at
other times, he had a MENTAL symptom of denial that was present sometimes
but not at other times. So when it did express, I was never ready, because I
was thinking I was engaged with the rest of him...the rational non-symptomatic mind.
But in a flash, the symptom was speaking again. I finally figured it really was a brain
disorder and I needed to see every instance of denial-speech, as just a symptom...showing.

Though he spoke in language and was in other ways brilliant, when it
came to his disease and its real consequences, his symptom made him
speak stupid things.

Dunno if it's exactly the same with N-denial, but it sure looks that way to me.

xo
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Thanks Hops... that's exactly the thing I'm dealing with. The slight difference in shade from couldn't to wouldn't... helps.

In this D's case, things are complicated by the fact that there are (at least) 2 things going on... and the alcoholism, was where she escaped from the other thing. I understand, from folks who've worked more with severe cases of alcoholism, that being sober isn't always enough to stop that kind of, that level of denial... that something in the brain (habit's long reach?? or something more bio-based?)... actually changes. This is the outer skin of the "onion", I'm dealing with.

Then, there is whatever motivated the run toward a fantasy, a delusion, an escape in the first place. Something so frightening, or perceived to be SO AWFUL, SO PAINFUL and TABOO, that it must be forever and completely denied. I guess I have to include, my "adventures with Twigs", as an extreme example of that kind of denial. (And of course, the level of denial I experienced in my mom, was a direct source of much of the pain.) I have long suspected that something like this was at the root of my NMs issues; there are tantalizing "clues" in her history from her own telling of the story and other people's.

With this D, it's possible also. There are stone walls, steel doors, and fantastically projected images meant to distract on the face of them. Extreme isolation of self combined with an urgent, undeniable, "look at me" that interrupts and interjects and steamrolls every other person and thing around her... so that one overlooks or misses the ugly or painful thing she's trying to hide. This is another kind of denial.

Knowing my own weakness in the face of this, I instinctively (first)... then consciously, later decided to act simply as "observer", referee, etc. I kinda knew my getting triggered wouldn't help anyone and would only complicate things. So, I guess it makes sense, that once I was safely away... I wasn't protecting the boys... and I had my "own space"... it was time to dive headfirst into all that stuff that came up, in reaction to this symptom. And of course, talking to her... getting the denial about the boys... hits damn close to home with me on a lot of levels. OK.

Time - more time - is needed. All the way around. This feature of the D's personality might change over more time and more work; it might not. Me insisting on this one thing isn't useful either - the outcome is completely out of my control. But I don't have to "prove I can take it"... when I can't, either. More time, maybe... will help. As to the debated/denied issue at hand - whether there was abuse - this will be determined by someone other than her, or me. I'm good with that, even if I can't get the D to understand that this is the reality.

Thanks Hops. Next question!

When a person lives at the beach, where do they go for vacation? I have so many projects here that I'm trying to get caught up on... and I'm even behind on the usual chores... and I have this urge to simply run away - flee - and leave it all behind.

[Hopalong]

the outcome is completely out of my control. But I don't have to "prove I can take it"... when I can't, either.

Bravo. That is so hard to get to.
And you got there.

I am glad that others will be engaged with her, however imperfectly they do it. You are as smart and knowledgeable as any, and often smarter, but it cannot be you who is her rescuer and healer. You're too close and too triggered, and strong and smart as you are, you're not THAT strong and smart. Because you can't take it. And it's great you have had the kindness to your inner self, to say so.

Grappling with your feelings about not being able to save her is grieving for so many things, in so many directions. But you're right about time, too.

Hang in there...

Hops

[sKePTiKal]

Wow. Just Wow. Observations.

The "story" or "narrative" that exists in A's brain... is so far from "realistic" that it's definitely a problem in and of itself. The anger and hostility that erupts if one challenges that? Huge. Makes communication impossible. Even when something has been said, simply and clearly, she hears something completely different. Then there's always the "parting shot" - last time, it was "don't hate me 'coz I'm awesome" - that leaves a person just shaking their head.

Another observation, is that H is able to coherently SAY what is in my brain, that won't come out my mouth. In such a way, that it doesn't invoke the hostility, even. Wow.

Last one: I'm just now seeing, that my brain only works at it's best with someone else's... that I need feedback, different opinions and ideas, the obvious that I miss so often, while sifting through details. "Brainstorming" in a group is my ideal situation; optimum functioning. Thinking by myself? Too often, that's the blind leading the blind... I haven't picked at that much yet; nor tried to feel my way into understanding if it's even that important... it might not be.

And I'm staying physically busy, to help "processing"... and not "over think" things too much.