unpleasant thoughts about D

[Hopalong]

Well, here goes.

I feel some guilt about this, but the truth is, now that her estrangement (shunning) has gone on for 2.5 years, I am stronger. I'm not feeling daily anguish as I did for the first couple years (even in this holiday time). I love her. That's permanent. But when I am foolish enough to peek online at what she does publicly (mostly tweets, a few YouTubes), I am always smacked in the face...and recognize that right now, I don't LIKE her.

I guess my main sadness is in wondering, will we ever be able to reunite, have an adult connection, with mutual respect?

What got me going lately was that she is building an online "persona" that involves a lot of fandom for a very violent sport. It's sad to me because I recognize it as a way to bond with her dead father...who loved boxing, wrestling, etc. (I always loathed it, can barely handle football, but we all know I'm a wuss.) Anyway, in her online stuff, she presents herself as a "leading fan" or "voice of wisdom" on the sport (MMA). And when I'm not hurt/angry, I find it heartbreaking. She is not finding what she needs in the real world, and is looking to anonymous (or celebrated) online personalities for validation. (Not that's NOT what we're doing here, for the most part most of us are also engaged in functioning or finding solutions for Real Life, imo.)

Anyhow, last time I looked was many months ago, and got a nasty gesture at the close of her last video that I know was aimed at me. So I recoiled and went away (wisely.)

I slipped again today to read her tragic-sounding tweets about being "familyless" and how hard this day is, etc. And shoot, I had just sent her a loving text on Tgiving, telling her I feel grateful for her and wish her a happy Tgiving, with much love. That was it. So she hops online and posts about having no family. It's as though she either wants me dead, or pretends to strangers that I am.

Horrible feeling. And yet, she is my child, she is unwell, and I know her life's not working out right now. I don't know if it ever will.

What troubles me (hence this confession) is the angry part. When she does things like this (and I'm stupid enough to look at them) my hurt turns to anger. And my next thought, which I HATE, is...should I leave her everything when I die? That's awful. I absolutely hated the way my Nmother used her inheritance as a tool to manipulate. I haven't shared any of these thoughts with my D, of course, but it bothers me that I go there when I am feeling the hurt. It's like, part of me does want her to feel the shock. No, she is not ENTITLED to just wait for my death, and then come collect.

And the way she has treated me, I have a strong feeling that is what she plans.

Can anybody help me get wiser perspective on this? I don't think about it all the time, but when I do, I feel certain I could never leave her nothing, but I also feel more like leaving at least half of it to those who did actually love me, visit now and then, or play a role in my life. Her severe NC has broken my heart, but I'm trying to heal it. And one creepy but realistic possibility is that I will make my "opinion" known by hurting her expectations after my death. I'd leave it to my church and friends, instead.

Is this SICK? Any thoughts? All ponderings welcome.

I'll be doing an estate document with my lawyer early next year, so that's why I want to get my mind straight about it. I've been thinking, just deal with current circumstances. I never want to cut her out, her life's been very hard and she does have a mental illness. On the other hand, while she is shunning me, I thought I might make it 50% to her, the rest to my church family.

But...she needs it all badly, when I go.

What do you think? Am I being a sick pathetic rejected parent, or is there some sound wisdom I can apply when I don't know what is right?

thanks, love
Hops

[Izzy_*now*]

Hello Hops,

When I say, “I understand”, you know that I do and I am sorry that you hurt, but I see you have progressed  to feeling somewhat stronger, and that will continue. I also understand the peeking online, and that to shall pass. The entries made by my D. that I expected were or my benefit have now been removed, and I no longer feel guilty about peeking. After all, it is a public site that anyone can read.

D. is no longer in my Will as a beneficiary. It was a tough decision to make, but the right one for me now that it is done. To have included her would be following what many people would do, but I suffered physically and emotionally over both accidents that kept me in spending money and not on Welfare. The first accident also kept her with a roof overhead, food, clothing, not handed everything, but I was still able to make her life liveable and not keep it all “just for me”.

After the years of ‘shunning’, I concluded that she ought not be rewarded by me for that. Since the grandchildren have not replied, after some years, I did not include them either. Deserving people were my choice. They are old enough to make up their own minds, so this is why I believe she has concocted a story that has turned me into a “wrong doer” of whatever kind and not worth mentioning., so I also feel “It's as though she either wants me dead, or pretends to strangers that I am.”

The time has now arrived that I have no feelings left over this, and you will know it for yourself, when your time comes. As far as reuniting, my feelings are that some things that were said are just too hurtful to ever set aside. I will always remember that those hurt the most and she wrote them.

(I had a computer geek in to do my network mapping, and he recovered all my lost email back to 2006. I have a File on this, for use if she were to contest my Will. First, it will cost a lot for her to do so, and I have the proof that would likely stop any suit, just because of content alone, plus a notation in my Will itself.

It is very sad that these things do happen and we are not the only ones. Have yon ever googled the topic? It’s an eye-opener and makes us feel not so alone in our misery. I first had her at 35% but now is 0%, so living with the hurt for a long time can help you make up your mind. I wouldn’t think of telling you that what I did is right for you, but am here to share and to help, if I can.

Time, it just takes time.

Love
Izzy

[lighter]

Hops:

Feelings aren't right or wrong, they just are.

And you;'re not your mother.....

you're ((Hops)).

If your dd has truly cut you out of her life, leaving your money to your church family would seem pretty obvious, IMO.

That dd's mentally ill complicates things though.

Maybe your estate guy has some suggestions for TRUSTS etc, that can thoughtfully carry out your intentions and wishes for your daughter after you've gone?

I don't think anyone would think handing your dd a good deal of money at your death would be wise, for many reasons. 

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Hi Hops,

I keep writing this as the words don't come out saying what I mean them to!  Very briefly, I think the idea of money doing good after someone's death is a lovely legacy, and that usually means passing it on to those who will do good with it, either for themselves or other people.  I don't believe that anyone is entitled to anything, or that people should feel obliged to do certain things with money that they have.  You are a good, kind, sweet and loving person and you know that you won't make decisions that are designed to punish or take revenge.  You'll do what feels most right and loving.  So I'd focus on how much good your money could do after you're gone (which hopefully won't be for a really long time yet!) and leave the majority to those who will use it to enrich their lives and the lives of others. ((((((((((((((((((((((((Hopsie))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[sKePTiKal]

Some very sound advice on estate matters here already, Hops.

Along the lines of what Lighter said re: feelings - first, the feelings themselves aren't right/wrong.

Second, when we attach that right/wrong label to a feeling ourselves - or let others try to tell us what we should feel - there's this funny leap between the "actual" and the "ideal" going on. Actual, being: this is reality and what it feels like. And Ideal, being: what we want instead.

It's a weird place, and sometimes things are all mixed up feeling wise. Since I'm still sorting mine out, here are a couple that work for me (and might, for you)... my feelings are my feelings - and what my D does/doesn't do at this point doesn't initiate any kind of cause & effect emotional wave. What makes things a little nutz sometimes, is that people around me are ALSO having feelings about D - because they sympathize, they aren't vulnerable to her machinations/manipulations, and they want to defend me. Their reactions - sometimes - are based on "normal" relationships and I think these mom-D discombobulations don't exactly "fit" the "normal" pattern. As you know, in non-normal relationships, the "language" and "emotional language" is completely different. It's like twins, kind of...

What I've come to, is that however my D expresses herself or manages her life... has a whole lot less to do with me than whatever inner problem she's trying to work out. It's not my fault. I've bent over backwards to give her opportunities to dump it all out on me - start over fresh - let bygones be bygones and simply try again. And again and again and again. I've tried to patiently listen while she tried to talk things through - but those doors won't open; not to me... not to her sister... and as far as I know: not to anyone. So to attempt to proxy-judge myself based on outrageous things my D does, says, or whatever... whether I approve or disapprove... well, that's operating from that leap into "ideal". Actuality is: she's 37 years old and mom to a 13 year old. Am I "letting go" and giving her room to grow, if I'm even having an opinion on her odd life?? And is it fair to have that responsibility-guilt twinge-run to rescue/fix it response myself?

Uh-uh.

Here's the feedback I got from my kids, when I explained how our estate was set up. "OK, whatever"... eyes glazed over on the details... and then when I pushed D#2 - my backup POA - about the future, I got: just enjoy yourself and do what you want to do, Mom. I'm just relieved that I won't have the responsibility of trying to take care of you when you're old and sick. None of 'em are sitting around waiting to inherit something... not even the problem child. As far as "family heirlooms"...

my mom is currently trying to stick me with my Grandma's piano again, Gma's sewing machine, etc. All the same "stuff" I have literally given back to her and figuratively don't need to have in my life, to remember my grandparents and still love them. I imagine that my bro - who seems to have that same quirk - will keep all that. He doesn't play piano or sew. And I'm done trying to point out that keeping stuff like this is a little "weird".

How about ASKING your D, if there is anything she might want? That she was hoping would be hers someday? She might have to think about it awhile. And then, release the outcome of what she might answer...

[Hopalong]

Thank you all, so VERY much.
These comments were enormously helpful.
It's going to take me a while to digest them, but I will.

Izzy, you are so sane. I believe the process you went through brought you to the right conclusion, and that comforts me (whatever my conclusion becomes). You have huge clarity and you have boiled things down to what matters.

TT, the legacy with stringent access is probably the rightest direction. My lawyer is ready to help me with a trust. It could be a "special needs" trust, or just a straightforward one, with strings. As he'll be my executor, I can just direct him to disperse funds (not that there'll be much) directly to her payees. Like, she may be continually drowning in student debt, even in her 50s or later, so however old I am when I go, that might be a great burden to lift. Or, perhaps just a stipend that is only for living expenses. I think overall, it's better for her to work.

Tupp, your comments support me in the desire to also hold a part for those things that express my love for this world, and for many people. Token or tiny, I do want to leave a few bits to further those bigger-picture things. If I let love lead me, I'll probably find the way to write it up.

And thanks, Lighter. You're right, her bipolar disorder makes her character stuff erupt worse, and given that, she simply needs help that she won't accept now. So for that, I can leave her a gift that will help in some way...and feel good about that regardless of her NC.

Skep, the thing you've forgotten is that my D is NC. She does not speak to me, respond to anything. So there is no way I can ask her any question. Unfortunately. She is so financially desperate that it's not about sentimental heirlooms, it's about what can/should I leave her (if there's anything left one day, which is frighteningly unsure, given how little I'll be living on) -- to help her? It's not about "stuff." Unfortunately, I can't take your suggestion of asking her anything because she does not acknowledge my existence. Thanks for the good wish though.

love to all.
Hops

[gratitude28]

Hops,
I haven't read all the answers to you yet... but here is my thought. And please understand I'm a "tough love" kind of person. Your daughter will NEVER create a life for herself if she has the hope/idea that you will be leaving her money and comfort once she sheds you. I am seeing this with NM now - she is stingier and more self-centered than ever now that she is comfortable. I don't know that not leaving her money will change anything, but it seems to me that there might be some hope in that case that she will attempt to create a real life and become in some way responsible for herself.
I am so sorry you have to go through this. I can't imagine how hard it is. I hope you can transfer some love to your little mutt. It must be hard to have suffered through so many years of unreturned love.
Sending you a huge hug and I hope you don't mind my harsh opinion.
Love, Beth

[sKePTiKal]

Ah yes... the obvious log I tripped over was huge, wasn't it??

Bleh. Some days...

[Hopalong]

S'okay, PR. That time o' year, and I still trip over this particular log.
But I'm doing better.

My blessed T was a huge help. Walked him through my dislike of my
own vengeful thoughts, we got to the hurt under the anger, then we
got to the sadness under the hurt, I felt it and released a lot of it, then
the door opened for my compassion to come back in.

I love my daughter and her travails and even her meanness make me
more sad than angry. Angry is the surface of the hurt, the hurt's below
that, and once I let the hurt come and go...I'm back to my setpoint,
which is: I love her, I know how she is both suffering things she cannot
help and harming herself with things perhaps she could change--and
either way, compassion is the bottom line I can live with.

I am pretty certain that ultimately, my choices about my wee leavings
will be based in that compassion. I hope so, anyway.

All her losses are bigger than my wishes. And I understand that.
She needs help and what I she cannot receive from me now, I can
give her in some way then. There'll be nothing to stop me also leaving her
the sort of letter that will make clear how big love is (bigger than us
both), and how nothing she did or ever will do will change that. I am
human and I am sorrowful I've (for now) lost her, but I can still express
the love I feel.

What I hope most is that she will one day release the shame and self-
loathing, and find help and courage in equal measure, to let herself
be happy.

love
Hops

[lighter]

Hops:
I'm glad you've processed the harder feelings, and come back to center.
Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Hops, what you said there about your D moved me to tears.  She's very lucky to have someone in her life who is so willing to work so hard at putting things into places where the love you feel for her is what wins through.  It's very, very brave of you to admit to the things that you don't like to admit you think and feel and then work through them.  I hope that some day she finds a similar sort of aptitude in herself and tries to do the same.

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Hops)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

[Hopalong]

Oh me too, Tupp. Me too.

love and thank you for your compassion,

Hops