Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
"You’re so vain, you probably think this song is about you..."
sea storm:
Hmmmm I will try to restrain myself and not start sounding like stampeding horses through the pleasant meadow of the denial that males live in in our culture.
Why should a man take responsibility for the bad behaviour of a drug addicted king baby jerk? this is a good question. Even voicing it means there is some sort of start. i think the point is that Carly Simon has a snowballs chance in hell of being heard by men but women will feel heard, acknowledged and proud of her for coming out of the cloak of shame and silence she lived in.
If it could happen to someone rich, gifted, beautiful and famous, then it is probably happening a lot.
I think that men need to take some responsibility for the snide comments they hear about women, they need to stop sniggering and treating women like fuck puppets. THey need to stop expecting women to be their nurses and purses and for working full time and taking care of kids and housekeeping. Are you KIDDDDIng me?
Have you taken a glance at the statistics for rape????? Good grief. One in four girls will be sexually assaulted by the time they are 18. Of every 1000 rape cases that go through court
5 percent are found guilty. i guess that is why women don't report. It is an undereported crime. Because men don't get it. It is a cultural norm to rape women. Obviously, the victims are not being heard so it is pretty much time for MEN to step up and telll their good buddies to treat women with respect. But that does not happen. They let ole Fred get away with disparaging women and seeing them as disposable sex objects and just laugh it off. Wouldn['t want to cause a trouble over such a thing.
So Carly deserved what she got. I see your point. I just think that she got what most women get. Who the hell doesn't have a boyfriend who gets stoned or drinks or cheats or watches port. It is a cultural norm. So i am not going to blame Carly for getting mauled at age seven and set up for a lifetime of abuse and a desperate search for connection with men who probably are very much like her offenders.
WOMEN are the sisters, mothers, daughters of men . If the ammount of sexual abuse and battery is just like wallpaper to you, then wake up and get educated and stand up for women.
Sea Storm
mudpuppy:
I stand corrected; there is collective guilt....for men.
I gather there isn't collective guilt for women. Either that or no women do anything wrong.
I also appreciate learning that it is impolite to point out that marrying a man you know to be a heroin addict might not be utilizing the best judgment. I hope you don't mind if I continue to urge my daughter and other young ladies I care about not to be so inclined should they meet one.
I have looked in vain for my blaming Carly Simon for being molested at seven, as I have pretty much any of the stuff you seem to be accusing me of.
I am not shamed by the misdeeds of other men any more than innocent women should be shamed by the misdeeds of women who mistreat people or commit crimes.
I do however wonder at the assumption I don't "stand up for women" because I refuse to accept the guilt of someone elses crimes.
Nor is rape a "norm" in the culture I live in. It is a terrible crime that in a better world would result in the severe punishment of every single person who perpetrates it. The statistics are debatable, but it is without doubt most get away with it. I don't know how to change that, but blaming the guys who would just as soon castrate and/or hang by the neck until dead rapists is, I'm pretty sure, not the way.
You don't think millions of men haven't experienced girlfriends who get stoned, drink, cheat or watch porn? Are men solely responsible for that "cultural norm", when women do it too?
I don't have any "buddies" who treat women disrespectfully. If they do they're not my buddy. Am I supposed to go further and somehow change jerks into gents with my mind rays?
You don't know what I've been through or what the women I love as mates, daughters, relatives or friends have been through or what I've done for them, but of course that's the great thing about collective guilt. With a blanket condemnation you can just make false assumptions and smear someone with baseless accusations and put words in their mouth regardless of the facts or their actions or beliefs.
Starting to remember part of the reason why I quit posting here.
mud
Twoapenny:
--- Quote from: sea storm on December 01, 2015, 08:25:34 PM ---Hmmmm I will try to restrain myself and not start sounding like stampeding horses through the pleasant meadow of the denial that males live in in our culture.
Why should a man take responsibility for the bad behaviour of a drug addicted king baby jerk? this is a good question. Even voicing it means there is some sort of start. i think the point is that Carly Simon has a snowballs chance in hell of being heard by men but women will feel heard, acknowledged and proud of her for coming out of the cloak of shame and silence she lived in.
If it could happen to someone rich, gifted, beautiful and famous, then it is probably happening a lot.
I think that men need to take some responsibility for the snide comments they hear about women, they need to stop sniggering and treating women like fuck puppets. THey need to stop expecting women to be their nurses and purses and for working full time and taking care of kids and housekeeping. Are you KIDDDDIng me?
Have you taken a glance at the statistics for rape????? Good grief. One in four girls will be sexually assaulted by the time they are 18. Of every 1000 rape cases that go through court
5 percent are found guilty. i guess that is why women don't report. It is an undereported crime. Because men don't get it. It is a cultural norm to rape women. Obviously, the victims are not being heard so it is pretty much time for MEN to step up and telll their good buddies to treat women with respect. But that does not happen. They let ole Fred get away with disparaging women and seeing them as disposable sex objects and just laugh it off. Wouldn['t want to cause a trouble over such a thing.
So Carly deserved what she got. I see your point. I just think that she got what most women get. Who the hell doesn't have a boyfriend who gets stoned or drinks or cheats or watches port. It is a cultural norm. So i am not going to blame Carly for getting mauled at age seven and set up for a lifetime of abuse and a desperate search for connection with men who probably are very much like her offenders.
WOMEN are the sisters, mothers, daughters of men . If the ammount of sexual abuse and battery is just like wallpaper to you, then wake up and get educated and stand up for women.
Sea Storm
--- End quote ---
Sea, I'm sorry to say this, but the reason my step father is one of those people who has got away with rape and sexual abuse is because of the number of women who have protected him over the years - my mother, my aunties, the social workers, the police officers, all women who have lied about me to protect this man and keep him out of the reach of the law. When I reported him to the police the male officer who came out to my house was lovely - polite, kind, professional, empathetic and a really decent human being. The two female officers who escorted me to the 'rape' suite to take my statement - apparently because they're specially trained to deal with victims of sex crimes - were vile - unprofessional, discourteous and as I sat wiping away the tears after talking on camera about him told me to my face they weren't going to bother going after him because there wasn't any evidence and then proceeded to report me to social services claiming I was mentally ill and that my disabled son wasn't really disabled. I don't think it's fair to lump an entire gender together and declare them all to be one thing or another. Women have done far more damage to me than men over the years. When I had a breakdown years ago and was struggling to cope with my young son and my own health, it was a male friend who moved in and looked after me, held me when I cried, took my boy out to the park. None of my female friends wanted to know. There's good and bad everywhere, on both sides. I didn't see anything in Mud's post that showed any kind of agreement with the abusive actions of some people, nor have I in any post he's ever written. Everyone here is here because they've been damaged in some way; ironically I think most of us are on here because of the abuse we've experienced at the hands of women we loved. I grew up in a home with domestic violence going on and if I ever mention it people always assume it was my dad hitting my mum but it wasn't, she abused him, not the other way around. I try very hard to see the good in people now, and to avoid those who don't but I know I can't assume I'm safe with someone because of their gender x
sea storm:
You don't have to be sorry for telling your story and I am so sorry that you were not heard and it was mainly women who dismissed and minimized what happened to you. Women can be offenders that is for sure. Statistically, and from my experience dealing with dozens of cases, it is men who offend more often. Anyone who offends against anyone needs their head examined. It is wrong.
Women are downtrodden in our society. That is true. Men are downtrodden sometimes too. Basically, our society is fractured, unfair and pretty awful. When I see something unjust i am going to speak. If you don't like it ok. you are entitled to your opinion. If this makes you mad. I am not responsible for that. One can always just discuss things. I feel myself apologizing because anger is so destructive. If you haven't noticed the disparity between the sexes then so be it.
Sea
Twoapenny:
--- Quote from: sea storm on December 02, 2015, 12:07:40 AM ---You don't have to be sorry for telling your story and I am so sorry that you were not heard and it was mainly women who dismissed and minimized what happened to you. Women can be offenders that is for sure. Statistically, and from my experience dealing with dozens of cases, it is men who offend more often. Anyone who offends against anyone needs their head examined. It is wrong.
Women are downtrodden in our society. That is true. Men are downtrodden sometimes too. Basically, our society is fractured, unfair and pretty awful. When I see something unjust i am going to speak. If you don't like it ok. you are entitled to your opinion. If this makes you mad. I am not responsible for that. One can always just discuss things. I feel myself apologizing because anger is so destructive. If you haven't noticed the disparity between the sexes then so be it.
Sea
--- End quote ---
Didn't make me mad or angry, Sea, and I haven't failed to notice the disparity between the sexes, nor do I think that our society is anything other than fractured, unfair and pretty awful, I just don't agree that 'all' men are responsible for the problems or that loving, caring, compassionate men should be lumped in with abusers and rapists.
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