Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
"Families of narcissists suffer most"--New England Psychologist article
Hopalong:
Hey, Doc G--
Suggestion for photo.
Sit in an armchair by a window.
Relax.
Get in a reflective mood (maybe read some poems).
When the camera is there, look at it --slightly from the side-- as a friend.
A human window.
Because, actually, it is. You're just "meeting" people through that window.
It's not a devil that wants to judge your vanity or humility or steal your soul.
Makes a big difference.
Have fun,
Hops
Twoapenny:
Interesting to read what you said about that hospital you worked in, Dr G. My son has a lot of health problems so we've had a lot of dealings with various professionals in health and social care over the years and I have found so many put their own needs before the needs of the patient. It has led to a lot of problems as obviously I expect them to put my son first and I've found a lot of them don't like to be questioned, challenged or corrected and then label me as 'difficult' when I ask them to focus on him and what's in his best interests. I've just had to ask for a letter to be corrected as there were a lot of errors about my son's diagnosis and abilities in it and, interestingly, the doctor was happy to change the mistakes that were someone else's (ie, that had come from another letter from another doctor and had been copied and pasted into her own) but she refused to change the mistakes that were hers and hers alone.
It's good to see things being talked about more openly and frequently. Donald Trump scares the bejesus out of me :)
Gaining Strength:
I am moved by this interview, moved and surprised. The opening story takes me aback. It is a whole story, encapsulated in a brief sentence. The surprise is your view on the genetic component. That makes sense to me in part - that the genetics provides the predisposition and the early childhood neglect or abuse shapes the content. You didn't say that but it is how I make sense of the genetic argument.
You are one of the few I have discovered in these years who seems to understand that the families do suffer and suffer mightily. And that understanding is a great salve in a mammoth desert of understanding, empathy in this 21st century of stunningly judgementalism.
You write that they (the journal) found yOu. Thank goodness they did. More need to find you. Your voice gives voice to those who lost theirs. Keep talking and writing and sharing.
Dr. Richard Grossman:
Thank you for the “reads” and the replies!
Ales2: I read the Wikipedia entry that you provided the link for. A true horror story—I’m so sorry your mother had to go through this. If your mother does have NPD, the question here is whether it was trauma that shaped her personality, or whether the genetic “predisposition” (as Gaining Strength proposes in another post on this thread) for NPD was already there. I have written about two Auschwitz survivors I grew up with (see, for example, http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php/topic,10394.msg172937/topicseen.html#msg172937), both were/are lovely people and neither had a Narcissistic Personality Disorder. But I do believe that trauma of this nature will certainly put solidly into place all of the “defenses” we have predispositions for. And it takes a lot of therapy with the right kind of therapist (I have strong feelings about this!) to undo these “defenses.”
Hops: Thank you for the suggestions—and the new way of looking at this harmless process! At some point I’ll give it a try and have Hildy snap a few photos. BTW, can I hire you as my therapist? (Kill two birds with one stone!)
Tupp: I’m sorry you and your son have had to deal with narcissistic behavior from health care and social service professionals. As I have written on this Board, I have not only had to deal with this behavior from colleagues, but also as a patient ( http://www.voicelessness.com/disc3//index.php/topic,10329.0.html). Unfortunately narcissism is rife in high prestige professions (medical, academia, politics, etc.) But it is particularly painful when you go to someone (e.g. doctors) looking for care and find the person has no empathy, and their main purpose/goal in life is to keep their “self” inflated.
G.S.: Thank you so much, and I’m glad you came back! Yes, the first paragraph/question of the article is very important, and I’m very happy they included it in the article. It deserves to be told and noted.
I think you’re right: Most often genes (at least in the mental health area) create predispositions of varying degrees rather than 100% assurance of expression. If we look at the statistics on major depression for example:
“If one identical twin in a pair becomes depressed, the other twin will develop depression around 70-80% of the time. This is true whether or not they were both raised in the same household.”
From "Is depression a genetic issue?"
Stanford at the Tech Museum Understanding Genetics December 1, 2010
http://genetics.thetech.org/ask/ask387
So, genes in the mental health area are not deterministic—otherwise (in this case) there would be a 100% correlation. Clearly, we’re dealing with probabilities and multiple factors. But the assumption used to be that if children were brought up the “right” way with loving parents, it was assumed they would turn out to be psychologically healthy. Therefore, it was always the parents’ fault if the children/adult children had psychological problems. As suggested by the above study on major depression and genetics, this turns out not to be true. Furthermore, personality variables (as shown by the Minnesota Family Twin Studies) have a significant genetic base—50% is the general figure often quoted (with the other 50% divided up into many other factors, only one of which is parenting.) I have seen normal, loving parents bring up adopted children who turned out quite disturbed (personality wise). When the adoptive parents looked into the history of the biological parents, it turns out they were drug abusers, in prison, etc. The guilt these adoptive parents felt (thinking they had done something wrong) was huge because they were caring, loving people. There is so much more to be said (and studied!) on this general topic, but I'll stop here…
Again, thank you all for your comments!
Richard
Ales2:
Dr. G,
Thank you again for all your posts and responses here. We are so lucky to have you and to have found this place. It has been a source of comfort and strength that I appreciate very much!
All the best to you and my friends here at the Board!
~Alesia
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