Relationship/s

[sKePTiKal]

Hops, something Hol & I are actively working on... (re: criticism HEARD but not intended)...

is that we each OWN those attached "implied ulterior meanings" to things within our own minds/emotions and WE are the ones attaching those meanings a lot of times. Yeah, sure, sometimes there really IS a little dig or an unconscious/subconscious implied message involved. But it's not as often as I, or she, thinks... and that defensive reflex needs to get dialed back a little to facilitate actual conversation on the topic/issue.

Might not something similar be happening re: the "meaning" of those old world manners? At least sometimes?

[Hopalong]

Absolutely, Amber. No question about it!

M is just fairly unconscious how desperate his attempts to Obey Grandmother's Dictates Even if You Knock Someone Over Doing It can be.

Fortunately, with a little talk and some hilarity, we've found our own clunky ballet about it. Where it used to terrify my inner feminist it more often amuses me, now.

And what I needed to bring to the interactions is understanding (you should SEE the huge intimidating Central-American-aristocrat grandmother portrait) and humor. I've mostly gotten there.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

That sounds workable Hops - for both of you.

Can you make a post-it mustache to put on Gramma's portrait? LOLOLOL.

[Hopalong]

Amber, that is a BRILLIANT idea! I just may try it.
Except I fear for his mental health when he walks past and sees it unawares...

He really does VENERATE the ancestors. Sheesh. Maybe I need to come up with some hippie pagan ceremony to release their hold on his spirit.

But man, that portrait is tempting. It's the kind of thing one would normally encounter in a museum. I'm sure she loved him and he her, yet it's also a reminder that M grew up in Another World. Old school to the max.

And then he ran off to Berkeley, became a wild rebellious creature, and an obsessively successful historian! He really is brilliant, no exaggeration, and that is SO much fun to be around, most of the time. (Maybe his Grandma-reflexes are a way of holding on to parts of himself that otherwise got scattered to the winds when he left CR and plunged into 60's California culture.)

I love him. He makes me smile. I feel much happier and safer in life because of him. There's no understating what a difference he's made. I am LUCCCCCKKKKKYYYY.

Gratitude is my favorite emotion, and this is my favorite holiday. I need to remind myself to tune into it every single day.

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

I'm really glad things are going so well and you're happy, Hops.  You deserve to be happy so very much.  I'm reminded a little of when you first got Pooch - I seem to remember it was difficult at first and you were wondering if you should keep her or not?  But then it all settled down and became a full on love situation.  M is now Pooch   Lol.  I'm really pleased it's all going so well, even with Granny on the wall xx

[Hopalong]

Thank you, (((((((((Tupp))))))))))).

We do have some issues but are still doing couples counseling, just slowly,
since we signed up at a time when we were about to travel and same for him.
So I'm sure there will be some difficult work ahead, but equally sure we're both committed to doing our best with it.

We've slowed the pace of working out when/how to live together, which he says depends on selling his property in Costa Rica first. We'll find out. I try not to worry about that, although "am I leaving my little house?" looms. I guess the clear answer is of course I am. Just don't know when or where or how. That uncertainty is difficult for me but I understand his plan.

It's a real comfort to come here and summarize and spot-check everything as it goes along.

Big hugs
Hops

[Hopalong]

M IS Pooch, Tupp! You got it!
I refuse to rub his belly, however.

She has become a beautiful sort of catalyst-connection-conveyance between us. I just love the interactions we have "through" her. Lots of laughter and affection and goofiness. He genuinely loves her and she has dropped her last resistance to him. It's been sweet to watch unfold.

And maybe she helped us get easier with our own affection too. It's far from "calm" but there are moments when we're settling down to an easy companionship. We went through some tensions, that's for sure. But something kept us trying and working at it, and now it keeps getting better.

One BIG thing is the couples-T. He's verrrrry insightful, to the point that even Brilliant M (who often slips into professor-who-knows-more-than-anyone-anywhere mode, alas) comes out excited, praising the T's "penetrating questions." We both feel really good about it and are, as I'd hoped, learning a lot more about each other with T's guidance. It feels very very good.

He controls M's interruptions and holds him to account for being dismissive on occasion. And he doesn't let me off the hook either. The nicest thing (which I never felt to this depth ever when I tried counseling with two husbands in the past) is that M and I feel CLOSER when we come out, MUTUALLY motivated and excited to be learning.

One invaluable thing I find in M is his eagerness to learn, which is evident in counseling despite the professor ego. Once we get into relationship issues, he seems open and fascinated and dedicated, and it really encourages me.

This is the first time I've been in early-days couple counseling and I'm experiencing a whole different kind of hope.

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

I think that sense that you're both working on it and genuinely want it to work is such a good thing, Hops, and so much nicer than what often happens, which is that couples go to counselling when nothing else has worked and neither one of them can really be bothered any more.  It's great that you got into it sooner rather than later.  Good on you for putting the idea forward and good on M for being so engaged with the process and so open to trying it out and doing something new.

The therapist sounds great.  You need someone who is almost like a referee.  It must be difficult counseling couples as you have to mind two sets of needs and wants, without letting one dominate over the other.  He sounds like a good find.

And I think pets can be such a good barometer of how things are around them.  The fact that Pooch and M are getting on so well is a good sign.  I'm really pleased that you are working through this together and that things are moving forward and giving you hope for the future   It's really lovely to read xx

[Hopalong]

Thanks, Tupp.
Wish you and son and the whole board were here so we could have a celebratory potluck! Lighter cooks, Amber splits wood (even though I don't have a fireplace), CB decorates, Bettyanne roasts her toes and relaxes, Mud bellows carols and Doc G takes notes. Anybody I left out comes by unexpectedly to drag us all outside to build snowpeople. (Even though there's no snow yet.)

Reality seems so...optional, sometimes.

Dunno if I mentioned that this couples-T is a sikh. When I first saw him my heart sank. But even in the first session his questions were so intelligent and his kindness evident. I had a huge struggle when I got home and explained to M that I would need one more "consultation" before I could decide whether to work with him (which I did because M had responded so positively). M was fine with it.

So in session 2 I just laid out all my baggage about religion, particulary the kind which includes gurus, and men-in-religion (my ex boss/wannabe N-guru, my grandfather-preacher who abused his daughters, my years-ago Christian therapist whom I saw despite initial hesitation because he seemed kind and I didn't want to prejudge but who pressured me into marrying my second husband because he was uncomfortable with me being single and sexually active--which he didn't let on until after the disastrous wedding night/honeymoon, my recently-ex minister who manipulated and berated congregants and projected his many issues onto us, and twisted things that happen in the culture now because of religion.

He listened very patiently, as did M. I told him I was concerned that because his religion is difficult to forget about because he wears it on his head (turban) and face (beard) I might have difficulty trusting him. He explained that he converted in the 60s when he was entirely f**d up and had met a group of people who were into it, and while he lived there (a communal thing, very common then) he would follow along and one day said to himself, I need a structure for myself, these people are good, and I just need to make a commitment, so he did. (I also told him one reason I was willing was that I had a kind sikh friend at church and that I had read enough to know that the skih scriptures stipulate that women and men are equal in every way.) It was a LOAD.

Anyhow, his answers were reasonable, transparent, and I just stopped fearing it. And now I'm glad I did. I don't share his vocabulary about "the divine in all people" but I do know what he means and feel at peace with it.

My own scraps of faith (undiagnosed faith, hah) have been severely depleted by what's gone on at my church, which makes me really sad. I read about all the typical activities coming up and am entirely uninspired. BUT...we will eventually be past the holiday period (which is painful) and within a year, will have a new minister. I may just wait until then to start going back to see how things are.

Big ramble...
hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Well I'm impressed that you were able to go in and tell him all of that, Hops, because I know with me that sort of unpacking scares me silly and I avoid it and have just not gone back to T's I didn't feel comfortable with.  Something for me to work on in the future   I'm glad he was able to allay your fear and yes, I have to say I don't have a lot of faith in religion, for similar reasons.  The endless focus on virgins bothers me enormously along with the never ending stream of child abuse cases that seem to just keep coming.  Then there are the Magdalen laundries in Ireland, horrifying stories of the abuse that went on there and it's something that I read a lot about over the years due to my dad's Irish roots.  I would have felt uncomfortable too, but I wouldn't have been as brave as you to tell him   I'm glad he has turned out to be such a good egg xx

[lighter]

I didn't realize you'd chosen a particular T. 

This wonderful experience with a Sikh male T might be more healing than if you'd ended up with anyone else.   

To be heard, feel understood, embrace and be embraced.... and feel safe enough to speak your truth with these guys is very special, IME.  I'm so glad things are going well.

Thanks for that update, Hops.

Lighter

[Hopalong]

I don't like it when M explains to me what my feelings are about.

He explains EVERYTHING in all circumstances. Professoritis.

I can handle it mostly, and often enjoy it. But not always.

Feeling building anxiety about the big trip. Need to focus.

SOOOOO glad I have both-T appointments tomorrow!

Arrrrgggghhhh,
Hops

[lighter]

How did T go, Hops?

You're so good at speaking with compassion..... I can imagine it's hard to get your point across.

I sure hope the T straightened it out: )

Lighter

[Hopalong]

Well, my own T at 2:00 is a perfect setup for couples-T at 3:00 (half a block away). In the new year she'll have to change the day, but I enjoyed this while it lasted. There will be benefits from not doing both the same day too (one thing being I'll be less likely to make first-hour all about the second-hour...which isn't just for me).

It was good in both sessions. My T listened to me dump a lot of anxiety buildup over the trip and some of M's not-hearing-me behaviors. Then we went to couple-T, who is very smart and insightful and tends to be able to state the bottom line of what I'm struggling to describe. I think we were lucky to find him.

Long story short, he suggested that M respond to me setting a boundary with a specific phrase, "I hear you and I love you." As a way of reminding himself. And for me, he encouraged me to be willing to be more authoritative in my own behalf in terms of stating what I need (drawing boundaries) and not being fearful of sticking to it.

That was great. And because I've been feeling a need to focus on myself and not have so many M-messages (morning, afternoon and evening emails, plus periodic voicemails and an evening call) coming in at the moment, particularly as I'm gearing up for a long and daunting trip (plus holiday gifts for him and his family, etc)...T asked M, would it be all right with you if she makes the next step toward you, are you content to wait for that? M said, of course (never mind my past experience with him absolutely freaking out). I think in part he said it because he admires and wants to impress Sikh-T. Works for me!

We had a nice dinner together and then M said as he left, I'll wait to hear from you, and I just said thank you, that would be great. Interestingly, he came up instantly with two other "urgent" things he might still need to contact me about...(bringing over his fig plant so my housesitter can water it--hellloooo, we don't leave until the 23rd--and one other small pretext-for-contact that I can't recall). And I just said No, neither of those are urgent.

So we'll see. I'll probably just take a day or two to shake off the ritual contacts I'd begun to feel a little smothered by. And then be ready to receive (and even enjoy) them again. It's just the way I am. Comes a point when it feels as though he's literally programming me to never stop thinking about him for five minutes.

I think about him anyway. But he works MUCH too hard to ensure I never stop, and for me it's been getting out of balance. This T session was a huge help. I like the T a lot. He and I often connect through eye contact while M is on a talking roll. Not condescending, just a glance that tells me he completely sees all that's happening and is holding us both in a compassionate and very alert way.

Hugs
Hops

[Twoapenny]

Aw, Hops, the T does sound great, really good match for you, I would think, and somehow even nicer than he is Sikh, as I imagine a good experience with a religious person will be a good thing for you after so many negatives?  Provides a bit of balance for you

Yes, there are lines, aren't there?  Someone wanting to hear your voice is lovely.  Someone contacting you so often that you can't hear your own voice isn't.  I do get and understand that completely.  Some people really like that sort of constant contact but it's the sort of thing that drives me nuts   We're just all different, aren't we, in so many ways.  I'm really glad you and M have this nice T to help you through things and that M is taking it all onboard (at least in the office, at any rate!).  I hope he is able to ease off a little bit and let you breath through the holiday season, Hops.  It would be nice for you to be able to enjoy the time with his family xx