Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
Relationship/s
Hopalong:
Don't recall a specific point from it, but I think Chap. 2 is where he really drills down on intuition. In the case of fear, it's spidey sense. He also talks about how women in particular are socialized to mistrust their own inner wisdom, their observations, their actual capacities to sense what is safe and good and what is unsafe or dangerous.
I'm such a huge proponent of the idea of inner wisdom and don't believe it's a clear voice from a cumulus cloud. It works that way (a lot) in poetry. Where a good metaphor comes from is deep listening, but without clenching.
(If that makes sense.) I just was so thrilled by his respect for that kind of process and wisdom...it's delicate, profound, elemental and amazing...and exists in every human being.
But we're not taught to know it or trust it, so we live kind of deformed lives sometimes.
That help? Sorry I don't have the PDF open but I think Chapter 2 is revolutionary and inspiring. Even beyond the question of self-defense or physical safety. It said a lot to me about life. (Especially life as a woman in a male-dominated and still male-run and -- yep I love men -- male-distorted culture. Women get distorted too, it's in reaction to a power system that squats on our heads. And men are so harmed also.)
hugs
Hops
lighter:
Yes.
Intuition.
Sadly, I read that book many times, along with Strong On Defense, and never really felt...
No.
Never could give myself permission to honor my instincts, which were very good in hindsight.
I felt compelled.....reactive, I guess, to honor the people around me... Who I cared about.
Call it codependent, or need to be accepted or desire to please and seek approval, whatever it was. It was programmed INTO my brain very early.
I'm glad you're getting so much from the book, Hops.
For me it was information without all the nuts and bolts I needed to shut out everyone's voices AND listen to my instincts consistently.
Lighter
Hopalong:
I see this as helpful, ironic, and centering.
Had a lovely evening with M for dinner, hadn't seen him in a week.
He clearly was very happy Pooch and I were there. I enjoyed it too.
He was seriously excited and positive about the poem.
Later he writes:
Come for dinner on the 14th, please.
I reply:
Re. 14th, imo we should tiptoe, talk a bit about whether
we are in VDay mode or should impose it on ourselves
without sharing something true about what and how and whence....?
Alternatively, I can come the 13th....
He replies:
Okay, the 13th then.
LOL.
Pretty clear that there will be No Talking About "IT."
Even though IT is obvious he still has strong feelings and attachment and I've got them too. The stalemate is where we and IT sit. There's just no acrimony, and no sense of future. Random remarks about older age, but nothing direct about what we could choose to do together. I'm still glad to be in friendship but this helped me re-extinguish some small hopes that over time, he'd be ready to risk actually talking about feelings and future plans. Not yet. Maybe not ever.... Ultlimately, reality is my friend too and a closer one than M. Knew all this, and this little dialogue was just a good, centering reminder about where we are. Undefined, full of feeling, but not something to re-hitch my wagon to.
Without some adult conversation ABOUT our relationship I don't think it's likely I'll continue indefinitely in the exact same way. I'll always care about him of course, but probably won't be planning my life keeping him at the core of it. Or, maybe I will.
I don't even have to know right now and strangely, I'm fairly content not knowing. But asking me over for Valentine's Day evening? That confused me. His answer? Also confused me a bit.
I'm fine. It's just weird. Not pushing anything, just observing.
hugs
Hops
Twoapenny:
Aw, Hopsie. My outsider's take, for what it's worth, is that you meet M's needs (which is why he invited you over for Valentine's Day) but that he isn't interested in meeting yours (hence going for the 13th rather than talking). Personally I am hoping that you don't plan your life around him and that you spread your net far and wide as soon as it's safe to do so, so that you can meet someone with the emotional intelligence and self awareness that you need to be happy and healthy (and to be honest I don't think any relationship can be happy and healthy unless both parties are self aware, emotionally astute and capable of having open and honest discussions about anything that needs to be discussed). I don't mean that in an unkind or critical way, but I do think he shows you time and time again that he can't/won't give you what you need. I don't think he particularly cares that he's controlling, or that he's so uptight about cooking that it makes you anxious, or about the nastiness he showed that time you were on holiday or the night you went home in tears after you asked him to stop (I think it was a time you were being intimate) and he didn't. I think if he cared about those things he'd be working on fixing them himself. I am glad that reality is your friend and that you're keeping it that way and I hope it's possible to just enjoy the meal (regardless of the date :) ) and, of course, it's just my opinion, I may have got the wrong end of the stick and be speaking out of turn - in which case feel free to ignore and apologies will be extended :) xx xx xx
Hopalong:
No apologies needed, Tupp! I like your straightforward seeing.
And I don't disagree with anything you've pointed out. For me the question lingers whether it's he "can't" or "won't." For now, I assume it's won't. But I'm not upset or angered by it. It's just a timely private re-recognition of where M is and how he is.
I'm getting pretty comfortable in the moment. It's just a bit weird. So clear that he'd care for me (if I were ill) at least for now. As I would for him. But I think maybe that's all he's up to devoting. He'd secure my future, as long as it was his way. Talking through how we feel about things, actually looking together and hearing each other equally? Not yet and likely not ever possible, unfortunately.
I'd like a relationship like the one you describe, and the kind of talking and communicating Amber often describes. Meanwhile, important friendship is a gift during all this isolation. I'm sure things will shift once we're out of Covid jail.
Honestly it really did make me laugh a little. I'm sorry he's so afraid of real intimacy. I feel badly for him. But it was a good and timely reminder.
Thing is, I feel good that I didn't go along with his Valentine's plan. Wasn't fussed, just pointed out it didn't fit for me without any talk about where we are. And still just the same I'll look forward to the 13th.
A whole lot of my tension over our relationship seems to have drained away. I just am not motivated to start some campaign to re-try to convince him about anything. I do think my 3-month absence from his life woke him up to a degree. It made him more conscious of his behavior and me more conscious of my attitude. All good.
Woke me up too. If I keep my health going and continue to leave my writing door ajar, things could go in a really good direction.
hugs
Hops
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