The island

[Twoapenny]

What is the Frenchman doing, Lighter, is he cracking on to you and not taking your no for an answer?  Do I need to come over there and kick his arse?!  You should not, in my opinion, have to lie about dating someone in order to put someone else off.  You've told him no and that's as much as he needs.  Anything wrong with that is his problem, not yours, and you shouldn't have to lie because he's conceited and arrogant enough to think the fact that your female is enough for you to be interested in him.  When you said you didn't speak up to Frenchman my mind pinged back to that dodgy contractor you had to get a restraining order against?  That was a horrible experience and I wouldn't be surprised if you saying 'no' to someone triggers that at the back of your mind somewhere.  It is very scary when you are with or around men that don't take 'no' easily so if there is something popping up there it would be very understandable, in my opinion.

Mmm, brother wanting you to 'let men be men'?  Someone else suggesting you be a home maker?  Am I wrong in thinking that you've rebuilt this blooming beach house on your own?  Ferried back and forth for many months, ordering and arranging supplies, contractors, new contractors when the previous ones don't turn up, undertaken goodness only knows how many aspects of the building projects yourself, flew home through a hurricane at one point, if I remember rightly?  All while looking after Ds, doing your own therapy/body work/day to day stuff, and the small matter of the deranged relatives getting in touch again not too long ago?  Well my blood is boiling on your behalf, Lighter, I would politely suggest that you do what you can to get rid of these men who can only be men if the women bake cakes and paint their toenails.  WTF?  Forgive me if I've misread the situation but as I'm reading it I'd like to come over there and deliver multiple arse kickings, cook my friend Lighter a nice meal and then go dancing on the beach!  I'm glad you got the painting finished, though, and the shed door sounds great.  I hope all these people wind their necks in a bit tomorrow so that you can get on with what you need to do without dealing with all this childish crap.  You are absolutely right not to lie, not to have to keep explaining yourself and to work alongside people to learn from them.  I've been doing it for years and can cope with all sorts of DIY jobs now that many people have to pay someone else to do.

Enjoy the stars.  Maybe visualise building a big catapult on the beach, loading it up with annoying men and then catapulting them into space   Lol xx

[lighter]

What is the Frenchman doing, Lighter, is he cracking on to you and not taking your no for an answer?  Frenchman asked if I thought we would date.  Like that.
I'd been doing my own thing more.....listening to him less in other words, so maybe....he.....was.....cracking on me in a small space while we were trying to focus on dinner prep.  I had no where to go after answering him.  He was in my house....I wasn't going to leave, but the incident meant he did dishes by himself.   Do I need to come over there and kick his arse?! LOL....you prolly could.
He showed up this morning....he was supposed to come if I texted him.  I had David working and was super focused on project with brother.  Frenchman a verbal processor.....talks so much.  Brother could see my eyes glazing over so stepped in to direct F.  The man requires constant direction or.....not sure.  He'll be back at 10am.  I need to figure out how to be proactive there. You should not, in my opinion, have to lie about dating someone in order to put someone else off.  So agree!You've told him no and that's as much as he needs.  Anything wrong with that is his problem, not yours, and you shouldn't have to lie because he's conceited and arrogant enough to think the fact that your female is enough for you to be interested in him.  My mother used to say I wasn't an apple men could pick off a tree.  Anyhow, I'm more annoyed by his chattering than the other night in the kitchen.  Brother says he has skills....impressed he sanded the wood used to secure the magnetic bug screen more securely.  He's certainly an earnest worker.When you said you didn't speak up to Frenchman my mind pinged back to that dodgy contractor you had to get a restraining order against?  That was a horrible experience and I wouldn't be surprised if you saying 'no' to someone triggers that at the back of your mind somewhere.  It is very scary when you are with or around men that don't take 'no' easily so if there is something popping up there it would be very understandable, in my opinion.  I suspect there's a part of me expecting another shoe to fall.
I'm trying to breath myself over any real or imagined rabbit holes.  No time or space in my life for them.  Brother thinks Frenchman might be good caretaker at some point.  Very keen on the idea.

Mmm, brother wanting you to 'let men be men'?  Someone else suggesting you be a home maker?  Am I wrong in thinking that you've rebuilt this blooming beach house on your own?  Ferried back and forth for many months, ordering and arranging supplies, contractors, new contractors when the previous ones don't turn up, undertaken goodness only knows how many aspects of the building projects yourself, flew home through a hurricane at one point, if I remember rightly?  I don't think brother understands what this renovation/ retrofit entailed.  He sees dollars spent, not what had to happen, get measured, ordered, arranged, shipped, received, palletized, shipped, received, carted to property, unpacked, sorted, found, applied to projects and stored.  We didnt build new, which is much cheaper.  We tore out, closed off, replaced and protected.
He just now understands we closed off 7 windows and 1 exterior door so I didn't have to buy those windows and corresponding hurricane shutters....so I could butt in up and cool two buildings more efficiently.
He wasn't here.  He doesn't know. All while looking after Ds, doing your own therapy/body work/day to day stuff, and the small matter of the deranged relatives getting in touch again not too long ago?  Well my blood is boiling on your behalf, Lighter, I would politely suggest that you do what you can to get rid of these men who can only be men if the women bake cakes and paint their toenails.  WTF?  I think brother's fear is speaking.
He wants me to have a competent man in my life, taking care of me.  At the same time we were all outside working today and brother saw the value in my being there too.   I'm gently letting him get on with sharing his opinions....even if he's not sure who I am, really.  We're getting closer through this island trial by fire.  Being a people pleaser.....I notice people tend to plow on even after I speak up now.  Will take time to really connect.  Will take speaking a little louder....reminding....compassionately explaining. Forgive me if I've misread the situation but as I'm reading it I'd like to come over there and deliver multiple arse kickings, cook my friend Lighter a nice meal and then go dancing on the beach!  That put a smile on my face.
I think dancing on the beach is a moral imperative at this point.  I want to play, but on my terms.  Dancing with the Amazon's, by bonfire light, would be true joy.   I'm glad you got the painting finished, though, and the shed door sounds great.  I hope all these people wind their necks in a bit tomorrow so that you can get on with what you need to do without dealing with all this childish crap. Sometimes it feels like brother says to me what he'd like to say to someone else in his life, IMO.
  You are absolutely right not to lie, not to have to keep explaining yourself and to work alongside people to learn from them.  I've been doing it for years and can cope with all sorts of DIY jobs now that many people have to pay someone else to do. I know, right.

Enjoy the stars.  It stormed today and this evening.  I opened the windows and let cool wind blow through the cottage.  I really love that.  Thanks for the support, Tupp.

[Hopalong]

Lighter, I don't like this scene.

You're sounding like a deer in the headlights, frozen, hoping that your brother will read your scared glances and protect you from a boundary-bashing Frenchman. You have talked about other men bashing boundaries...the old contractor, other workers, a man in your hometown friend group. Even your brother, nonstop pushing his advice...same pattern.

Can you work on practicing verbal assertiveness with the T? Take an assertiveness workshop? Self-defense isn't only physical. It's verbal.

Not positive I'm onto anything, but just suddenly thought this. I understand you've done a lot to become physically empowered. But I'm thinking when you talk about your verbal communication, you talk about indirect, gentle, compassionate, hopeful attempts to steer or influence people. Very indirect and optimistically strategic, but not clear. Not helping you to maintain healthy boundaries.

It's not direct. It's not clear.

These guys need to back off.

You need to learn how to stop emitting "trespass here, it's part of who I am" vibes.

This is bluntly put but I think I might have had an intuition. I was suddenly concerned that something could go wrong for you if the vibes toward men continue to be murky and unclear. Hope it helps, and please ignore if it doesn't.

hugs
Hops

[sKePTiKal]

LOL... it seems to me we all have our own ways of interacting with men. Some of it's subconcious, some it is personality, some of it learned or intentional. Any or all of those have their usefulness, given a specific situation.

But what's bugging me is how (with the exception of Tupp's stated approach) we seem to second-guess and judge ourselves; or sometimes even question if we have the right to say what we want to say - feel what we feel (or don't). And then not act on it, because we're unsure.

(Maybe this is just me, too.)

[Twoapenny]

Well, lovely Lighter, to be very blunt I  don't think your brother's input at this very late stage in the process is welcome or necessary.  There seems to be a lot more stress attached to this trip with him there (and all of the trips have seemed stressful, in one way or another!).  He doesn't seem to have been terribly involved up until this point and if you hadn't done all this work the beach house would still be a shack on a beach needing a lot of work so I think he needs to be doing what you tell him and no more, to be honest   And you don't need a man to take care of you, ye gods, has he met you??!!  The most competent and self reliant woman on the planet - and she needs a man to look after her.  I am feeling a bit vomity   Lol xx

And Frenchman needs chucking back in the sea - talks too much, doesn't respect boundaries and makes you feel uncomfortable in your own home.  No, door bolted, get rid.  Brother thinks he's a good worker because he can sand wood?  My cat can sand wood, Lighter, it's really not a difficult job, as I'm sure you know!  I don't think you need to worry about whether your rabbit holes are real or imagined, or breath through them.  You are an incredibly accomplished, hard working, endlessly honest human being who has rebuilt that beach house very painstakingly and I'm feeling very angry on your behalf that these men are undermining all of that. 

I'm glad the wind is blowing through the beach house, Lighter, and I hope it's blowing these annoying men away with it.  Don't let them make you second guess yourself and do you know what, I say stop worrying about saying things gently, kindly, sweetly.  Say what needs to be said for you, not for anyone else.  I can send you a list of my best British swear words if you want   Lol xx xx xx

[lighter]

I bumped in front of Frenchmen today if that helps you understand how I'm carrying on in his space lately.  Super blunt.  Always leaving.  Always busy.  My mood is set to SHUT DOWN whatever bugs me and it feels marvelous!

Not being trapped with F on 33 foot boat is very helpful.  He was tending to me....I had no work to do.....it got weird. 

I'm feeling much better now☺ 

I attached a milk crate to the pretty sky blue girl bike then went to hardware store and grocers.  It's leftover Wahoo fish tacos tonight.  Ended up behind a funeral celebration....think New Orleans with a band and parade.  Made the hardware store with 2 minutes to spare.  All in all a good day.  Getting tons done.

I'm listening to you, Amazon's. 

Lighter

[sKePTiKal]

LOL... oh CB, DO TELL...

I'd love to know what you're thinking.

[Hopalong]

I hope it's helpful. The more confident I sound, the more likely I've missed loads of context. But fwiw, sometimes I benefit from reviewing weird situations and asking myself whether I spoke. Did I Speak My Wants/Needs? I'll often find, looking back, that I was counting on mind-reading, guessing, body language, and vibes. As though I had no voice. No boundaries.

Just as an exercise, I looked again at your post for hints of physical and verbal. Just a hunch but I'm thinking you enact things physically a lot, rather than speaking them aloud straightforwardly. Assertiveness (esp. with pushy men) specifically includes repetition--not loudness, aggression or fear. It can just help to use the same exact words over again, repeating as needed: "I don't want company right now. I don't want company right now. I don't want company right now." If the tone is calm but patient, it can get through without arousing hostility, most times. MOST men back off after one clear repetition as the message comes through. If a male is someone you wouldn't dare to assert yourself with verbally and truthfully, without fear, this is a male not to have in your life.

I bumped in front of Frenchmen

Physical.

Super blunt.

Verbal.

Always leaving.  Always busy.

Physical.

He was tending to me....I had no work to do.....

Physical, passive, unclear. Might need: "I'll fetch what I need."

It got weird.

Nonverbal, missing boundary? Might need: "I want to relax alone, merci."

Anyway, this probably makes you feel like a bug under a microscope. I ain't no scientist, but if I were, I'd be a benevolent one!

Happy days,
Hops

[lighter]

Lots to think about there, Hops, Amber, CB and Tupp. 

I'm percolating: )

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Glad you're back, Lighter, and I hope the percolating is productive xx

[lighter]

OK.

I've percolated on the Frenchman/boundaries/co-dependence/nurturing/attachment involvement...... thing and here's what I'm finding.

I DO get something out of nurturing others.  I'm in the kitchen.   I cook and feed people, but I noticed I'm not doing it exclusively or needing to do it exclusively.  I want to share the duties.  I want to let others pick it up and hand it off fairly.   IF I DO too much, bc others fail to step up, I'm certainly aware and have CHOSEN to step up or not step up.  I'm aware I could suggest someone else step up then go back to what I'm doing.  I'm aware there will be discomfort in this, bc I've trained people to expect me to fix, fill in, make things go smoothly, but that's no longer the case for me.

I SHOULD have done what my gut tells me is true and good and right.... stated a boundary and moved past it.  IF the Frenchman felt butthurt over being rebuffed he just has to deal with it or go
away. 
I'm coo with that  and I can't control the guy if he's going to stalk or whine or cry.... and I don't want to control that.

I think men with mommy issues are attracted to me for a number of reasons.  One, I'm nurturing.  Two.  I'm distanced and typically unattainable, bc I'm often not dating or looking for male companionship truly not up for giving any time or attention to a man..... I'm actively dressing like a worker bee and going about my business.  That part seems irresistible to a certain type of man and I don't even want to visit that type..... just avoid.  My mother used to say that men are attracted to women who're doing SOMETHING... anything... as long as they're busy and engaged.  I forgot that until just this moment.  I truly believe that's part of this and I'm so IN MY OWN HEAD I miss or outright ignore the signs I need nip something in the bud. 

 I do have difficulty with men LYING about how they feel, coming back and starting more drama over being rebuffed.... trying to convince me, but that's just more of the initial boundary transgression and has to be nipped and dealt with, sans drama.
I'm 

NO
MORE
DRAMA
or men whining in my direction.  I really am hypersensitive to whining men I THINK bc women have been cast as whiny, needy,  weak, and judged on it generally, which now that I SEE it, bothers me less. 
No more being held hostage by the feelings of others though. 

No more allowing people to talk AT ME and me just standing there, waiting for a chance to escape. 

I know how to DO this.  I don't know how to sidestep all the chaos people whip up and present as reason for me to stand there and listen, consider, blah blah.  It all seems so simple now.

It doesn't matter if anyone else understands the situation as long as I understand.

I'm the only one who's opinion counts..... I'm willing to consider listening to rational opinions, from people who honor boundaries, but only those honoring boundaries.

Seems simple now.

People presenting reasons for overstepping my boundaries don't get to talk, at least not to me.

People tell themselves stories.  They tend to live from places of fear when they tell those stories.
They project. 
OK.
 I don't have figure all that out and I certainly have more peace if I accept they're confused and struggling and let them have their opinions. 

I can state my POV and not require they understand or agree.  I state my opinions IF I feel there's something to gain.  IF I care about the other person, as in sib...someone my sib cares about.  It's lovely to accept what others feel without letting it affect me. Interesting to not have to fix or help anyone understand, grow or learn , unless it's about my boundaries and consequences of overstepping.  That takes a lot of energy out of deciding when I interact and what I interact over with those I don't vibe with. 

I think stating my POV, in a calm, compassionate manner is super important for me to feel authentic and fine in my own skin. 

Waiting till I've lost all patience doesn't work.  Never worked.   

And people won't understand my level request or demand to have a voice at the table, but I'll be consistent and they'll learn.   

And that's OK too.

I'm curious how this will go.... actually looking forward to it.

No dread.

Lighter

[Twoapenny]

Good percolating, Lighter!  I think the reason it seems simple now is because your home, in your own space, without all those silly people taking up your time, energy, head space.  So you've been able to think and settle, instead of spinning and firefighting.  I would guess that when you go to the island you just need to get on - Job 1, Job 2, Job 3 - whilst making mental lists for things to do next time, supplies to order, items to check, plus at back of mind, are DDs okay, and so on.  No time and no headspace for people who just aren't on your level - emotionally.  Not as well developed, thoughtful, considerate.  You need that and deserve that.

Nurturing and mothering are great qualities, in my opinion - it is just the boundaries that need to be honed and perfected.  It's all practise and you are right on the path!  I'm glad that it's all settled in your head and it will be great if the next visit is a bit smoother and more settled xx

[lighter]

OK, so brother and I got a lot done on the island.  He tends to focus on organizing in BIG sweeps.... clearing out, throwing away. 

I tend to organize minutely, bag things together then have trouble finding things.  Brother wants that to end, and is fairly insistent.  It see the value.  I do.   He knows that.

He also focuses on creating an estate on the property.... grading and mowing with ease.... everything neat.  Nothing to mow around and slow him down.  I can see the value in that and once he explained it.... it made lots of sense.

He sees the value in having things when you need them... not spending hours traveling to the other island to make an expensive purchase of something we SHOULD have on hand.  Think water bottle pumps and fasteners..... sheet rock, stucco and stucco wire.  TONS of things.  He wants clear clean space.  I want to put my hands on cement when I need it.  2.5 inch deck screws.  Old pressure treated wood from the deck we tore down so it matches the other decks when we make repairs.  LOTS of wood.  Plumbing supplies.  Electrical. 

It's a dance of compromise and brother said he saw the difficulty in organizing and editing for me.  Hard work.  Difficult with such limited space and I agreed with much of what he said, but not all.  I DO want meds on the island I can't get otherwise.  Brother said trips should be cancelled if you need a med you can't get on the island.  I disagreed.  That's OK.  We can disagree.

The important thing is..... we got a lot done.  TONS done.  Not enough, but we're getting there.  I was thinking of going for youngest dd's spring break and maybe taking a friend.  Maybe many friends... not sure, and I normally wouldn't think about doing that. 

This is new. There's more room to enjoy the cottage and less work to do.  I know that.  More toys and things to play with kayak, bikes and huge big island and dd will graduate soon.  Might as well take joy by the lapels and dance with it. 

Lighter



 

 

[Twoapenny]

OK, so brother and I got a lot done on the island.  He tends to focus on organizing in BIG sweeps.... clearing out, throwing away. 

I tend to organize minutely, bag things together then have trouble finding things.  Brother wants that to end, and is fairly insistent.  It see the value.  I do.   He knows that.

He also focuses on creating an estate on the property.... grading and mowing with ease.... everything neat.  Nothing to mow around and slow him down.  I can see the value in that and once he explained it.... it made lots of sense.

He sees the value in having things when you need them... not spending hours traveling to the other island to make an expensive purchase of something we SHOULD have on hand.  Think water bottle pumps and fasteners..... sheet rock, stucco and stucco wire.  TONS of things.  He wants clear clean space.  I want to put my hands on cement when I need it.  2.5 inch deck screws.  Old pressure treated wood from the deck we tore down so it matches the other decks when we make repairs.  LOTS of wood.  Plumbing supplies.  Electrical. 

It's a dance of compromise and brother said he saw the difficulty in organizing and editing for me.  Hard work.  Difficult with such limited space and I agreed with much of what he said, but not all.  I DO want meds on the island I can't get otherwise.  Brother said trips should be cancelled if you need a med you can't get on the island.  I disagreed.  That's OK.  We can disagree.

The important thing is..... we got a lot done.  TONS done.  Not enough, but we're getting there.  I was thinking of going for youngest dd's spring break and maybe taking a friend.  Maybe many friends... not sure, and I normally wouldn't think about doing that. 

This is new. There's more room to enjoy the cottage and less work to do.  I know that.  More toys and things to play with kayak, bikes and huge big island and dd will graduate soon.  Might as well take joy by the lapels and dance with it. 

Lighter

I'm really looking forward to a time when you can go to the island and mostly have fun, Lighter.  I imagine there will always be a few bits and pieces that need dealing with, but it will be great if those are minor things (or scheduled regular maintenance) and they can be dealt with quickly and then the fun can begin

Yep. does make sense to have supplies and materials close to hand and easy to find.  Meds - I prefer to have too much than too little.  You don't know what you might go down with when you're there - makes it difficult to bring what you need with you.  I'm glad the dust seems to have settled a bit and hope it all gets a little easier for you from here on in xx

[Hopalong]

Lighter,
As the virus heats up here, I'm torn between envy that you have an island retreat you could grab your family and go hide on for a few months, and worry that if you do and it reaches there, you'd be in worse shape than here. Aaaaarrrggghhh.

But who the hell knows. I've stocked up on sanitizer gel (a gallon of the base--60% alcohol as required, plus bags of cotton squares and snack-sized "sandwich" bags). I'm going to make a bunch of little "kits" of these to have on hand and to give to folks. Just ordered plastic pump-tops for the gallons. Also got some dehydrated and a bit of bulk food, extra echinacea and elderberry syrup.

Do you have a plan to stay home or go to the island if the pandemic gets worse?

Hugs
Hops