Author Topic: Mindfulness and codependence thread  (Read 84554 times)

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #105 on: March 10, 2020, 12:01:22 AM »
Did you mean Tupp or Hops?

Me, I lose track all the time....but thought you might've been responding to moi.

:)

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #106 on: March 10, 2020, 04:53:49 PM »
That's BIG, Lighter!
About the voice control and demeanor, and not channeling father. Bravo.  Yup yup yup yup. It feels super important right now.

I notice that you often mention consequences. Knowing your background in martial arts, I'm sure you mention them in the same calm, unthreatening way. It might be challenging to NOT see dialogue or emotional interactions with loved ones in terms of BATTLE.

I never engage in battles and this speaking up for myself, even in my father's words, is new for me.... or so it seems.  Typically I just leave.  Having kids meant I COULD speak up, easily and often when necessary, bc it was for my kids.  Speaking up for myself is different, but getting easier with coaches like you and examples to help drive the info home.

Probably the most important consequences in drawing boundaries, in my experience, don't have a ton to do with others (except of course with kids). But mostly, I think, the most valuable consequences are for the self. Such as:  I think I've been talking about boundaries and reading about boundaries and watching others deal with boundaries BUT without realizing how difficult it is to do when I'm in reactive mode.  I haven't sussed out reactive vs responsive till recently and so...... the topic of boundaries has taken on a new heft and weight.  They're very real and accessible.  I didn
I didn't understand how the "light switch" flipping WAS REALLY being stuck or not stuck in reactive amygdala brain.  All the talking in the world, understanding, making up mantras just couldn't penetrate and take hold... grow.... internalize and become default and I couldn't understand why.  Knowing why is helpful.  Knowing it still comes and goes, as it is now.... I'm having a moment.... the kids see me spilling things... 3 things in 30 minutes and so I STOP, put down glass and liquids and breathe.  Post.  Examine what's going on internally.  Think about how difficult it is to remember or utilize boundaries when in fight or flight. 


--This dialogue is feeling toxic or borderline abusive to me. My consequence for myself is that I will say, "I am feeling frustrated so I'm going to take a half-hour for a walk. We can continue when I get back." (Or, later today, whatever....)Ya..... I have more trouble disengaging when I'm dealing with younger sib. There are certain people I've never walked away from, still have to fight the codependence stuff.  I can usually identify the projections and exaggerations... but it's hard to take a break.  I'll think about that.  I understand it's a good choice and appreciate your writing it out here.

--This person (non family) does not appear to be hearing me. I will state my request (same calm tone) two more times. If it's not responded to, I will say: "This is not satisfactory to me. I will find someone in a management role to see how to get it resolved." (And then exit.)I can HEAR this more clearly now.... practice it proactively.... make a habit of it.

Stuff like that. If there is any risk of internally confusing "consequence" with "punishment", it might be best to make the first priority defining consequences for the self. That de-escalates most conflicts, I think. It helps not to live in battle mode. 

You know I make all this up, right? Just my opinions. But they do come from years of pondering and thinking about boundaries, fwiw.  I wrote a big response to this post... I think it went away?  I don't see it on the board.

Anyway, I have a situation with a father at our school sending Instagram messages to underage girls..... I'll DO something about it, just not sure what yet.

AND a mother is asking me to take her child in, during this viral thing, and keep him in school, care for him bc her immune system is compromised and she doesn't want to get sick if he brings it home.
 I have a child already going to school, pretty much same classes, so she figures I'm already IN IT.... it won't matter if her child is here.  I have conflicted feelings about that... not in the feeding and staying on him with school work... getting him to school and home but with the questins.... WHAT IF HE DOES become ill?  I think it's a mistake to think about it while I'm still shooting adrenaline from oldest dd driving to the store (girls decided to buy rice, beans and tp, just in case) so it's just a very difficult day I'm not comfortable making big decisions around.  Will see T tomorrow so I'm giving self permission to let things simmer till then.

Thanks for responses, Hops.

Lighter


Hugs and kudos,
Hops

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #107 on: March 11, 2020, 04:24:13 PM »
I want to get in the yard so will just jot things down as I remember them without looking up proper spelling, etc.

T and I talked about editing and giving away STUFF in a very happy positive way.  She talked about the "basement" where we consider things and perhaps attach meaning to them or don't.  Attaching meaning to things is about seeing ourselves as THAT... that thing or connection.  When that's gone there's more room for expansion and connection to the whole.  Around here you see lots of bumper stickers like.... ALL ONE, etc.  That's what she's talking about.  Who we are without the stories defining us.

We talked about giving up meat... she's not a vegetarian or vegan though she's tried and failed bc of low energy and feeling very bad physically.  She said the gal running retreats in this part of the State eats meat and that lady said the Dalai Lama eats meat.  That every body is different and we eat for health while being mindful around those choices.

The girls and I have talked about giving up meat certain days of the week.  I'm feeling really good about that, at a minimum.

Around these discussions she used a word sounding like RE-A-FI.... hard e and i.   It's Buddhist word that means aligning ourselves to the truth... maybe Hops knows it?  I'm paraphrasing badly here, but want to keep moving.
  This brought her to discussion around the cross.... before it was associated with that "Jesus guy" and then she laughed.... the cross was here way before. 

If the horizontal part of the cross is our physical life and the vertical is our spiritual life.... we strive to find the middle and THEN we can rise spiritually, grow.... become more conscious and aware of our true nature, in a nutshell.  Between desire and aversion..... seeking pleasure and avoiding pain.... there is balance in the middle.

We had maybe half the appointment left so I brought up the needle/medical thing and she said we could do a small exercise around it... she wished we could do an entire appointment around it BUT that's OK bc I give blood this weekend and can observe how anything shifted, if at all.   

She gave me two choices.... have young Lighter speak to older Lighter about the experiences OR do some blinking around it.... she called it Flash.   I didn't need to imagine them in my hands and weigh them out.  I always will go for the Flash over the other.

She brought me to my happy tomato garden with all it's sites sounds and smells.... warm summer sun on fragrant tomatoes and vines.... and we did eye movements, then one blink.... many times.  Then we checked the garden and repeated but with 2 blinks.  It was easy and she kept checking in around it... how did it feel..  was it easy.  Yup.

We brought the anxiety down from 8 to 0... I couldn't find the anxiety... it was fuzzy and far away... too far to reach and I didn't try very hard.  Just let it go then went back to the garden for a minute or two and we did the eye movement again while she mixed up the blinks.... 2..... 2....  1...... 3.... 2 etc.  THIS time I noticed the eye movements were harder... my tongue wanted to help, and my eyes wanted to just blink blink blink blink blink without stopping.  I tried to focus on my breathing through all this and follow her fingers and stay in the garden and blink quickly not longer blinks, etc.

She said the medical/needle/blood stuff is very common and the difficulty in the end was about control... it's hard to release all expectations and desire for control around this.

She asked what was true about myself and I responded without thinking that I was trustworthy and honoring my intuition will keep me safe... I am safe. I trust myself to stay safe... I am safe. 

Then I went out into the nicest day I've seen in a very long time. 

I'm going to spend a couple hours in the moss garden.... feeling the sun and breeze, noticing the birds and feisty squirrels.   Let all that simmer down.

I like T's approach to different concepts from different POVs. 
Today we worked on dissolving neural pathways....building new ones. 
We worked to rea fy stories in the basement.
We worked to activate the amygdala, move the anxiety into the processing center, process then file in historic files..... memory reconsolidation..... Flash....  and so this T doesn't force any ONE way of looking at this kind of growth.  It feels like she's packing information onto a sculpture... a handful of clay on this side, then the other, then on top, then below..... which brings a more completely picture for me.

She quoted Tolle....
"Ask yourself is there joy, easy, and lightness in what I am doing?
If there isn't, then time is covering up the present moment and life is perceived as a burden or a struggle."

I really loved that and it was super timely.  There's no guru gaga ... around anything.  I think she touches on everything.... every approach, bc I'm open and willing to hear different vantage points.  IF she told me what to think, how to go about something.... I'd dig in and resist. 

She's going on 2 back to back retreats soon, which is awsome, bc I know she's on her own journey, doing her own work, and will be ravenously hungry for meat when she gets out.  She's not vegetarian but tried it...  noticed she had to plan her life around naps and feeling lousy physically. The gal running one of the retreats in this area isn't vegetarian, which surprised T.  I think the Dalai Lama eats meat... everyone's body is different, and giving up meat for a day or more a week makes good sense to me, for the planet mainly.  More about that later.

REALLY cool appointment today.  I was up and ready to go before T was..... just felt great and ready to get at the day; )

Final note from T....
becoming my own best friend.... yup yup yup.

Tup, I'm channeling you a bit here as I bought a lovely long pink linen shirt from GoodWill and enjoy it so much.... such a happy color. 

Lighter

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #108 on: March 12, 2020, 10:28:00 PM »
I walked the labyrinth today while dd had her appointment.  The gardener was there, tending and cutting back bushes. 

Studying what they did.... they laid out a huge circle then stoned in the edges with cement and filled it all with very fine gravel that felt good on bare feet. 

After I brushed my feet off in the grass I sat on the porch swing and overheard the owner talking with the gardener.  As the owner passed me on the porch I thanked him for having such a lovely yard and labyrinth.   He lit up like a Christmas tree and talked about his plans and what he wanted for the bushes to grow into as they matured.  He thanked me for spending time there and went in.

I told the gardener he was doing a fine job and HE lit up too.  He looked like Jesus from The Walking Dead.... adorable and very pleased with his work on this project. He was pleased to see someone enjoying it too.  I could picture something that lovely in all my rocks and moss, but that's just dreaming.

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #109 on: March 13, 2020, 03:26:40 PM »
Boy can I see you making that happen, Lighter!

A neighborhood moss labyrinth...

LOVE IT!

A lovely dream regardless.

So pleased you had that experience today.

I'd bet YOU might have been lit up too.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #110 on: March 13, 2020, 10:10:50 PM »
It is a lovely dream, Hops. 

A neighborhood moss labyrinth. 

It is nice to dream.

Light

Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #111 on: March 14, 2020, 03:49:53 PM »
Ah, Lighter, charity shop clothes are the best!  I was in one this week and a top literally fell off the coat hanger as I walked past it.  I picked it up and it was just beautiful, a whole kind of mist of blues and greens, really pretty, with layers around the bottom of it.  I just bought it, it was so nice I thought if it doesn't fit I'll turn it into a cushion :)  Lol.

I'm glad the T is going so well.  I think it's good when they have a range of tools to use in different situations and I think you can feel the difference when they're working (or have worked) through their own stuff as well as sorting yours out.  It just makes the connection stronger, I think?

The labyrinth sounds lovely.  I do think people like when someone notices their hard work and appreciates it.  It's always so nice to give someone feedback like that :) xx

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #112 on: March 14, 2020, 04:05:17 PM »
Hi,  Tupp:

I adore blues and greens.... I associate green with ponds.... deep green lily pads, moss, and algae... frogs.  I used to buy special handmade papers with deep lovely greens swirled and dotted on the page. 

Did the top fit or will be become a favorite cushion?

About T doing her own work... I think it makes it easier for her to drop all ego and deal with me where I am, with zero expectations/viewing me through her experiences, etc.  Also, a deeper connection, as you say, bc she's been through what I'm going through.... she gets it, yup yup yup.

Lighter




Twoapenny

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #113 on: March 15, 2020, 02:00:36 AM »
It fits!  I haven't worn it yet, because I've mostly been doing cleaning and dirty jobs and I don't want to wreck it.  But it fits perfectly :) Yes, people who don't have expectations about your experiences are worth their weight in gold, so much easier when someone else can help you but also just leave you be xx

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #114 on: March 16, 2020, 11:29:38 AM »
So glad the shirt fits, Tupp.  I'll picture you wearing it in the sunshine, happy puttering, drinking tea in your garden.

My T sent e-mails that this week's appointments will be over computer.  I've never face timed anyone.  I'm not interested in it, so am not sure if I'll take it or cancel it. 

Will see.

My brother is upset everyone running around disrupting the economy.  He wants everyone to just be normal right now... and sensible as well.  I tell him it's not that I'm worried he'll get the virus BUT THAT HE'LL GET IT AND SPREAD IT bc he doesn't feel too bad.  Stopping the virus won't be about carrying on normally, IMO.  There has to be some base line changes that curtail the spread and we all have to join in.

I write this while 2 nights ago neighbors and I were passing glasses and food around a fire pit... playing pool and darts..... yesterday all the neighbors were in the culdesac talking, the elderly immune-compromised among them.  We're actually having MORE contact than before! 

It's comforting to speak to neighbors and enjoy fellowship in times of stress, but it's worrisome to me now.  I'll say this... the sober retired nurse came by the firepit and you could tell she didn't want that hug from one of the tipsy neighbors, but she got it anyway, then had to endure holding hands all the way to her property..... while resisting it.  The tipsy neighbor started a job as a bank teller today.  I know she's not being careful, bc she's just not in the headspace to be.

Ahh... wrong thread so will end this now.   I'm feeling OK.  Happy about your shirt.  Happy to spend time in the yard. 

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #115 on: March 16, 2020, 12:07:59 PM »
SIX feet apart.
No glasses passing!

Grrrr on the irresponsible tipsy person.

Sounds like you have good neighbors though, Lighter.

hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #116 on: March 16, 2020, 03:10:20 PM »
Right, Hops?

And the tipsy neighbor... with the new bank teller job, is married to the guy recovering from the immune thing that almost killed him... should have killed him.... and he's not strong yet.  We pass the pug back and forth regularly.  Can you get it OFF a pet's fur?  Don't know, but I know the husband likely wouldn't survive this IF his wife brings it home.

I'm hoping her work gives strict protocols for safety and she brings them home, shares AND practices.  If not, we'll have to have a sober conversation.

And everyone standing around in a little circle yesterday..... I just looked on and didn't go.  I'm going to prod the retired nurse to speak to them..... all very old friends.   She'll just up and say it the way it is, as a medical professional, rather than me looking like a nutjob newcomer trying to control them. 

Lighter

Hopalong

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #117 on: March 16, 2020, 05:17:21 PM »
Likely not....

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/news/can-dogs-get-coronavirus/

Google is REALLY helpful, as long as you rely on reliable sources, not anecdote.

Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #118 on: March 16, 2020, 08:57:45 PM »
Thanks, Hops: )

lighter

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Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #119 on: March 17, 2020, 04:29:21 PM »
This morning DD19 and I completed our online questionnaires and headed to school to give blood.

I tried to stay in my tomato garden and not think about anything negative, which came and went.


There were 2 teachers at a table outside the building where we were supposed to give blood.  Two other tables held snacks and pens for filling out forms.  We were asked to use hand sanitizer and I cleaned the pens with it too.   

There was a change in plan.... the big blood connection bus was where the draw would happen. I wasn't happy about being stuck in that little space with other people, but that was the way they planned it. 

I stepped into the bus and saw the gentle smile of a favorite teacher giving blood..... that calmed me down and I had a seat.  The red headed tech, with the shiner, took me into a little phone booth sized room to prick my finger and check iron levels. She spoke quite loudly and used words like "ain't" pretty often.  The smell of alcohol and whatever else hit me by then and I have to tell you... that is a very LOUD smell.  It's not all in my head.   It's just overwhelming, but I didn't feel lightheaded and my late friend P joined me in my tomato garden... I felt so happy to see her!  I sailed through as DD entered the bus and took a seat.   

I chose my recliner...on right side of the isle, then switched to left after checking my veins.  I have bigger ones in my right arm, which makes sense AND they pricked a finger on my rigth hand.   The gal did something pinchy painful to my arm that could have been placing the needle, but it wasn't the needle and left many tiny hickey marks in two places over top of the vein.... I assume she inserted the needle between them while I looked away and thought about the garden. I was fine.  No upset.  No feeling I'd lose consciousness.  I felt strong and fully in control of my brain and body, which was the first time in this situation for the first time around needles. 

Now,  I noticed all the things that would usually bring the darkness... that awful feeling when the needle goes in and things drop.... the vein feels like it's ill.... and then..... nothing happened.  I just kept feeling fine and wasn't surprised, bc I'd set my mind things would BE fine.       

DD took the chair beside me, across the isle.  IT wasn't clear if there was a tech on board who could find tiny deep set veins.... I mentioned it to the red with the shiner and she just laughed with the other techs about it, so not sure what to expect.  Also, DD and I did get the idea these gals had been plucked off the street that morning to work the gig..... not a calming feeling.  Shiner gal had many things she needed correction for.... over and over.  She didn't seem like she was used to doing that job on the bus, but we're troopers, so....

Red hit dd's vein the first try!  WHOO HOO!   DD said tech then wiggled the needle to settle it and that hurt a lot.  DD's arm hurt, had pins and needles, she was unhappy with the draw in left arm, stuck finger on right hand, upset and uncomfortable pretty much all the way through, but things went super great all things considered,  IMO. 

We received 10.00 gift cards, which was a nice surprise, and headed for take out sushi where I learned the Governor ordered all restaurants to switch to take out only at 5 pm.

I wore gloves.   All the employees wore gloves.   Counters and menus were wiped down after customers touched them.  Sushi was amazing and I felt like that last T appointment was a tremendous success. 

Lighter