Author Topic: Mindfulness and codependence thread  (Read 84544 times)

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #90 on: January 31, 2020, 05:40:40 AM »
I think the difficulty is when someone vulnerable is being harmed, Lighter, like your kids.  People do harm children, in many different (and often subtle) ways, and I think when you've been through your own growth and dealt with your own childhood problems you are much more aware of it.  Other people's influence - of a negative nature - in a child's life is not okay, in my book.  I have kept my son away from many people because I don't share their approach to life.  So I understand the who's wrong, who's right thing.  People have different ideas.  Not beating a child is as much as some people feel protects them from abuse, others understand more how what you say and do can have an deep impact.  I'm glad you're working your way through it, watching, processing and just being in it.  I'm glad the T is there to guide you and hand hold when necessary.  And we are here for you too :) One T I used to have kept saying to me I shouldn't rely on validation from others as to what was okay - I needed to set my own limits.  I think that's a difficult one to get to.  But you are on the right path, I think, and I'm glad of that :) xx

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8340
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #91 on: January 31, 2020, 08:02:16 PM »
This morning I checked myself....
zero struggle with right or wrong, fist in the air... sure justice is fair, called for and necessary NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW.

It passed.... it's not coming up anymore and it was in my face all the time for weeks... after Bettyanne posted about her mother taking her father's pain meds... I was OFF to the races and now....

now.....

the stuff that brought up for me.... is gone.  Done.  I don't want to write a word about it.  It's like my mind rejects the thought even as I remember what it was... and then it's gone again.  Truly... gone.

So, I feel young Lighter processed and cleared a stuck in the past angry trauma cycle, along with the resistance around it.  It felt very young.... very childlike.... a child having a tantrum.  Refusing or unable to listen to reason, or listening but stuck in survival brain and unable to access higher brain to calm, refocus, relieve the stress so higher thinking came online then BAM!  Processing happened, with that unexpected physical internal flapping.... and relief seemed to cover then move  through me.  And it stayed.

I check it every once in a while.  I notice the absence of what was a very familiar circular thought trap.  SO. Circular. 

Acceptance.... really understanding and believing.... being the field.... nose off the pebble. 

As I sit here I wonder if looking left then right then left then right then left then right, while stuck in that headspace hanging on to judgment and trying to find my way back to radical acceptance, which I felt I had before the island.... I wonder if the back and forth eye movement was helpful or THE thing that helped the shift take place.  I distincltly remember it happened as I was about to, then making that the turn.  I remember feeling confusion as I shifted petals and moved forward.   

I'll use my own hand with the EMDR more often.  For some reason, I associate it with the T and it's a happy feeling to remember... I can do this without the T.  For myself.  I'm very curious about how that works for me when I DO remember: ) 

Freedom and ease... that's how it feels.

And so this is a lesson in layers for me.  Older layers and newer layers and how dealing with one BIG thing can heal an entire line of traumas and wounded rabbit hole travels, one to another to another.  Just..... done. 

This is how it felt when I tried to recall emotionally supercharged memories during memory reconsolidation sessions.  They were difficult to recall.

This time, I really can't recall... and I'm trying.

::huge smile... looking around... waiting for it to change, really thinking about it::

NOTHING!

Yes!

Lighter

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8340
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #92 on: January 31, 2020, 08:31:19 PM »
The return of my peripheral vision seemed like a miracle, but not until I figured out it was gone, then restored.  MIRACLE.  At first it was scary and confusing to have it back without realizing it had gone away. 

I want to go back and see what happened just before, so I can begin drawing connections between connections if that makes sense.  I know T sessions included using peripheral vision while breathing and noticing what was around me, under me, beside me, above me.... and we spent a bit of time doing that before the EMDR began.  The EMDR hadn't yet begun... I think.

I wondered if this loss happened bc of the eye surgery/vision correction.  I muscle tested and the answer was NO.

I asked if it happened before the surgery and the answer was YES. 

This question came up....
was it because of cataracts and the answer was YES.

I think driving across States, often at night, with worried little children on my way to court stuff, while lacking much of the vision in my left eye, so distracted I didn't KNOW I couldn't see out of that eye..... locked my vision down while survival brain was constantly on then off on then off.   I don't have any feelings about that... just curiosity.

I'm not blaming the court stuff.  I'm not resentful in any way about it.  There's no desire to assign blame,  which is.... new.  To GET TO THE BOTTOM.. the truth of a matter. It's just poof... gone.

  I find myself leaning into curiosity, again, without judgment or any expectation.  Radical acceptance without any emotional reactivity other than happy to understand more about it.  I don't have any desire to learn FROM IT... for future use.  To discern the past.  I simply don't care to draw any conclusions about it. 

It's enough to be restored in this moment.  To know restoration is available to us all, in this moment. see it as a way to keep it from happening again.... there is no happening again. It's just... in this moment.... I have relief and it's EVERYTHING: )

Restoration in THIS moment.....is everything.

 Knowing we're all capable of restoration in this moment....
 is all there is.

Lighter





Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13466
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #93 on: January 31, 2020, 09:10:50 PM »
Lighter, I really like this:

Quote
  I find myself leaning into curiosity, again, without judgment or any expectation.  Radical acceptance without any emotional reactivity other than happy to understand more about it.  I don't have any desire to learn FROM IT... for future use.  To discern the past.  I simply don't care to draw any conclusions about it.

It sounds as though you suddenly freed yourself from the rumination on justice that tortured you endlessly.

Kudos!


Hugs
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8340
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #94 on: February 04, 2020, 08:45:16 PM »
Thanks, Hops.

I feel pretty good about noticing when I'm nose on the pebble (NOTP.) 

The more I do it, and am aware about it, the more I understand how it happens... the less fear and anxiety reflexively pop up.   

 The more I practice nonjudgmental focus and radical acceptance... the more it becomes a part of me.  Maybe making the shift gets easier... I assume it does. Just knowing how is a huge relief.  It makes me smile to think of it.

That doesn't mean I'm OK with the upsetting things in life... the egregiously harmful things.  It just means I'm not pulled to them, nose first, and stuck to them like a magnet anymore and that was always young Lighter's POV. IT IS young lighter's POV....  now.  She didn't have any skills or wisdom or insights or ability to SEE.  She was salty about things she had no control over.  Divorce sucks and kids get chewed up in it... it's the American way, esp when PDs are involved.  She needs to be heard and she needs some help.  IT's all around us/her/people we love,hate,wish better for with hindsight.  For every child... we wish that, but we don't need it to be true for us to be ok anymore.

It's a true letting go of something that felt so necessary and worthy for so so long

 Likely, anger will happen again and again.... this isn't one and done...  not with all the layers and that's OK. 

It's OK bc I feel better....
I don't open the garage door braced to see the world on fire anymore. 
I don't wake with dread in my chest and stomach.
I don't turn corners and find my fists out in front of me.

I SEE other people's POV.... have compassion for them without searching for it and that will come and go, I assume.

I used to mechanically manipulate myself.... I had to wonder what happened to that person to make them cut me off in traffic, be rude for no reason.. whatever it was... I had to work my way through it.  NOW... it just IS. It's a POV.  It's a lense that's alway in place, or is in place often... I'm getting used to having it in place.  It feels right.  I don't have to look for it or find it most of the time, and when I do.... I'll not panic or catastrophize or shift into past/future worry worry worry... or maybe I will, but I'll have the ability to SEE it and choose something else as my default setting.   


It feels like it's my default setting now..... and maybe it is.  One way or the other, I'm not going to be afraid or stay afraid rather. 

Lighter

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8340
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #95 on: February 04, 2020, 09:05:52 PM »
Today youngest dd missed school.  She's so sleepy. 

I made the choice to relax into it, not worry about another day missed and just go about my day.

Later dd got up, made herself a healthy chicken and spinach sautee, put on music and we danced and sang while cleaning the kitchen..... I had a breakfast salad.  It felt right.  We put away dishes together while contemplating something sweet.... I pulled out the Scharr GF puff pastry and we were off.  It would be little cinnamon rolls.  DD toasted pecans and put together a butter, cinnamon sugar/salt paste.  There's ONE bun left, and it's mine, btw.  Chewy with crunchy caramelized bottoms.  Amazing,  but the singing and dancing and laughter and talking about life and boys and stuff.... about how people SEE us and how we see them.... that's something I'll remember long after this day of missed school is forgotten.

I can't tell you how good it was to just let that worry go. I felt it as I did it.  The shift into gratitude and joy.... a choice. 

Lighter

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8340
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #96 on: February 07, 2020, 01:12:46 PM »
It's interesting to notice when I'm going from one distraction to another and missing the moments between thoughts.  Sometimes I smile and nod to myself... THAT's the thoughts and living in the future RIGHT THERE... and I pull it back to what's around me... think about my breathing.... the shapes and colores around me. 

Things feel less disjointed as I SEE the different pieces, become more familiar with them... internalize the process of noticing as habit and BEING.

I was pretty tense around planning and packing for boat trip to island coming up. 

And then I put it down.  It's going to be what it is... worry worry worry or no worrying.

It's better to be right HERE, right now.  There's pleasure and flow in doing what's in front of me, without worrying about what comes next, kwim?

That's where the joy is.

Right...
in....
THIS moment.

::breathing deeply::

Yup yup yup: )

Lighter

Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #97 on: February 07, 2020, 01:18:25 PM »
It's interesting to notice when I'm going from one distraction to another and missing the moments between thoughts.  Sometimes I smile and nod to myself... THAT's the thoughts and living in the future RIGHT THERE... and I pull it back to what's around me... think about my breathing.... the shapes and colores around me. 

Things feel less disjointed as I SEE the different pieces, become more familiar with them... internalize the process of noticing as habit and BEING.

I was pretty tense around planning and packing for boat trip to island coming up. 

And then I put it down.  It's going to be what it is... worry worry worry or no worrying.

It's better to be right HERE, right now.  There's pleasure and flow in doing what's in front of me, without worrying about what comes next, kwim?

That's where the joy is.

Right...
in....
THIS moment.

::breathing deeply::

Yup yup yup: )

Lighter

That sounds really lovely, Lighter - just to be able to get on with it.  What I've often wondered with me (and I wonder if it's the same for you) is that I get tense whenever I have to organise or arrange anything (even just making packed lunches because we're going out, and making sure we catch the bus), and I wonder if it's because of all the times the prep was for a court hearing or a meeting that was scheduled, or paperwork that needed to be collated and sent off, or that worry of 'not doing something right' and it being used against you in some way.  It makes sense to me now that the deeper parts of your brain would associate any kind of planning with the scary planning that's gone before.  I'm really happy to read that it's getting easier to notice it and put it down again.  Will be so lovely to get to a point where it just doesn't happen :)  How long until the boat trip now? xx

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8340
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #98 on: February 08, 2020, 12:15:10 PM »
Tupp:

I think partly it was the prep for court, but also just the hyper-vigilant state of BEING.  We had to live with every consequence, which was out of our control, so we became hyper-focused on everything we could control.   

T and I talked about food stuff at last appt.  It was't about what I thought it would be about, I'll say that.  More about control and feeling unworthy balled up together. 

While packing yesterday I notice that old familiar sense of urgency creep in.  I noticed it, banished it or didn't and went on.  Banishing is better.  Much better.  This moring has been pure joy in motion... just focused solely on ONE thing at a time, in the present... so nice.

I hope the new pathways, old business filed away in historic files (no longer creating the reactivity that USED to pop up in those areas) and being aware... able to choose something else (most of the time, not ALL the time) is working itself into a new way of BEING in the world.  Of SEEING and FEELING and, more than anything, of cutting out the chatter maybe.....
like I'm a firewall maybe?  At some point, maybe the firewall will simply be that open amazing field my T keeps referring to..... SO MUCH SPACE.... and there won't be much chatter or judgment to deal with at all.  And I'll BE that open spacious grassy field with a view of all the trees and pebbles and flowers without effort. 

Maybe there will be automatic acceptance and curiosity about EVERYTHING..... maybe?

Last night I was tired and about to sleep when I felt a little weird... not bad or good, just weird.  I thought.... Is this what my Dad had?  A little brain bleed and will it kill me or leave me recovering from a stroke?  It's hereditary.

The interesting part of that, from my perspective, is I wasn't worried or frightened or upset or wishing I'd done A, B and C that day.... I was just at peace with it and curious what would come next.  Truly.  Curious. No stomach flip at the thought. It was acceptance.... as default.  I guess.  It felt so much better than what I think of as my "normal" response. 

BTW, I think my brain was adjusting to 12-hour fasts AND small amounts of nutrition-dense foods....salads and bone broths with lots of water(sprinkled with a little pink salt) taken with anti-inflammatories. 
   

I've also been stretching ANYTIME I stand up and feel a bit stiff. I refuse to walk funny ONE MORE STEP.  I don't care where I am or who sees.... I STRETCH and that takes care of the stiffness. 

My left hip started creeking earlier this week... meaning I noticed some hinkiness with lifting left knee, which was a problem this time last year.  The stretches I got from the book PAIN FREE fixed it, more precisely so that's a no brainer.... DO THAT. 

I gave a copy  of the book to my neighbor whose overcoming catastrophic illness, and I'm curious to see how he feels about it and if he tries it. I'm not sure if he can read well or at all... he lost his good eye during the illness, had a stroke, lost a lot of skin and some ligaments.... other things, but he's a warrior and mostly engaged in Western medicine to gut his way back... had his colostomy reversed, but expressing huge interest in "alternative" ideas at this point, for the first time.  He's "awake" now.   

The book PAIN FREE by Pete Egoscue is a big deal with alternative med practitioners... .there's a clinic near my very active friend who suffers from cartilage loss (major loss) in his shoulders mostly, but knees too and he still... he plays high-level tennis, bikes 60 miles a week average, swims, works out with weights used to compete in Jujitsu... triathlons, monitors his sleep with his fit bit, etc.   He's been going to his ortho guy, getting death shots, discussing surgery while I've been saying GO TO THE EGOSCUE CLINIC and just see what they have to say!  You're lucky to live a half-hour away from them, GO! They'll align all the joints in your body and you can start building the cartilege back!  But noooo... he wouldn't do it until his orthopedic surgeon told him to, lol.   

Last week his ortho guy told him to try Egoscue. 

The active friend called to say he made that appt.  They asked him some interesting questions....
"Did he have a fear of snakes?"  I thought that was very interesting, yes yes yes. 
He went on..
"How did he feel about shrunken heads?" 

Well that tells you how friend really feels about it.  He's joking now, but honestly...  I think he's desperate and Western meds done all it can without making jello of the joints, which happens sometimes before folks get to Egoscue.

I have no feelings about it either way and I have to say... last year this time I would have felt resentment and frustration over his refusal to make that appointment a year ealier.   Now... 3 years after i began suggesting it.... he goes bc his Ortho told him to.   That he's done more damage and not begun treating the cause and building back those joints.....
feels.....
almost neutral for me.  There was a small shot of heat through my stomach, but I think it was almost my expectation I'd feel something negative.

I don't.

This is huge progress, IMO.   I used to worry about his joints, and fret and neeeed him to make that appointment.  That's changed. 

I'm limiting my radio/tv severely.  I notice I go to turn them on without thinking about it.  NOT turning them on refocuses me and helps dial in what's going on inside.  Things pop up.  I breathe mindfully often throughout the day, which IME is a game-changer.

The boat trip will be sometime in the next 5 days... depending on weather.  I'm not keen on loading the boat down then taking off in high seas, nope nope nope.  I'll get wet no matter what's going on, but want things to be relatively calm and sunny.  Brother said 20 foot waves are 40 feet tall.  DID I post that already?  That's super interesting to me.  I have a fascination with the ocean, some fear and lots of wonder.  My hope is to learn how to drive the boat, handle it in any conditions and make the trip myself.  I think I'll know pretty quickly if it's my thing or not. WOO HOO!  Deep sea fishing again soon!  Not much, and only Queen Trigger fish.... so much fun.   Better than lobster, SO GOOD.

The journey continues. 

Lighter


Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #99 on: February 09, 2020, 04:46:32 AM »
Tupp:

I think partly it was the prep for court, but also just the hyper-vigilant state of BEING.  We had to live with every consequence, which was out of our control, so we became hyper-focused on everything we could control.   

Yes, I can identify with that, Lighter.  I think also, with parenting (from the perspective of your parenting being questioned), anything you do can be portrayed as a negative, depending on the perspective of someone else.  Take your daughter's recent sleepy day off.  Some would say that's good parenting - you're encouraging healthcare, appreciating the need to rest, allowing her to make her own choices (thereby encouraging independence in adulthood).  And so on.  Whereas some would argue she should have been forced in - a day off encourages laziness, a lack of responsibility, an attitude of not bothering, and so on.  And I think, when you know that anything you do can be used against you, if someone else wants to make it a negative, that hypervigilent state sees you covering all possible bases and it's exhausting.  Yes, I'm nodding!

T and I talked about food stuff at last appt.  It was't about what I thought it would be about, I'll say that.  More about control and feeling unworthy balled up together. 

Yes, that makes sense to me, too.  If I cook from scratch, I'm a good mum.  If I stick a pizza in the ove, I'm lazy and don't care about his health.  That's how I feel about myself so I can understand that it's about control and needing to be worthy.  Yes.

While packing yesterday I notice that old familiar sense of urgency creep in.  I noticed it, banished it or didn't and went on.  Banishing is better.  Much better.  This moring has been pure joy in motion... just focused solely on ONE thing at a time, in the present... so nice.

Yes, it almost feels like if you acknowledge it's there, it won't keep banging on the window asking to be let in?

I hope the new pathways, old business filed away in historic files (no longer creating the reactivity that USED to pop up in those areas) and being aware... able to choose something else (most of the time, not ALL the time) is working itself into a new way of BEING in the world.  Of SEEING and FEELING and, more than anything, of cutting out the chatter maybe.....
like I'm a firewall maybe?  At some point, maybe the firewall will simply be that open amazing field my T keeps referring to..... SO MUCH SPACE.... and there won't be much chatter or judgment to deal with at all.  And I'll BE that open spacious grassy field with a view of all the trees and pebbles and flowers without effort. 

Maybe there will be automatic acceptance and curiosity about EVERYTHING..... maybe?

Imagine being in that state almost all of the time, Lighter - so freeing and easy?  Oh, that's what's happening, is it?  How interesting!  And then just getting on with what you're doing.  Sounds almost yogi like?  How nice :)

Last night I was tired and about to sleep when I felt a little weird... not bad or good, just weird.  I thought.... Is this what my Dad had?  A little brain bleed and will it kill me or leave me recovering from a stroke?  It's hereditary.

The interesting part of that, from my perspective, is I wasn't worried or frightened or upset or wishing I'd done A, B and C that day.... I was just at peace with it and curious what would come next.  Truly.  Curious. No stomach flip at the thought. It was acceptance.... as default.  I guess.  It felt so much better than what I think of as my "normal" response. 

That is interesting, Lighter, although I'm glad it wasn't a stroke!  But yes, nicer to have a calm reaction than an immediately panicked one.

BTW, I think my brain was adjusting to 12-hour fasts AND small amounts of nutrition-dense foods....salads and bone broths with lots of water(sprinkled with a little pink salt) taken with anti-inflammatories. 
   
Yes, makes sense that might be shifting things around a little.

I've also been stretching ANYTIME I stand up and feel a bit stiff. I refuse to walk funny ONE MORE STEP.  I don't care where I am or who sees.... I STRETCH and that takes care of the stiffness. 

I've been doing the same!  How funny!  Stretching at the bus stop, stretching on the bus, at the cinema, in the queue at the shop.  We were in a shop during the week and son told me to stop dancing - I was bopping around to the music in the shop and hadn't noticed.  When we went to the arcade yesterday son was in once of those racing games, the one where you sit inside a car and race?  I sat in the passenger seat and read my book - wasn't thinking about what other people would think if they saw me.  Taking care of self - it's a new one, isn't it??!

My left hip started creeking earlier this week... meaning I noticed some hinkiness with lifting left knee, which was a problem this time last year.  The stretches I got from the book PAIN FREE fixed it, more precisely so that's a no brainer.... DO THAT. 

I gave a copy  of the book to my neighbor whose overcoming catastrophic illness, and I'm curious to see how he feels about it and if he tries it. I'm not sure if he can read well or at all... he lost his good eye during the illness, had a stroke, lost a lot of skin and some ligaments.... other things, but he's a warrior and mostly engaged in Western medicine to gut his way back... had his colostomy reversed, but expressing huge interest in "alternative" ideas at this point, for the first time.  He's "awake" now.   

The book PAIN FREE by Pete Egoscue is a big deal with alternative med practitioners... .there's a clinic near my very active friend who suffers from cartilage loss (major loss) in his shoulders mostly, but knees too and he still... he plays high-level tennis, bikes 60 miles a week average, swims, works out with weights used to compete in Jujitsu... triathlons, monitors his sleep with his fit bit, etc.   He's been going to his ortho guy, getting death shots, discussing surgery while I've been saying GO TO THE EGOSCUE CLINIC and just see what they have to say!  You're lucky to live a half-hour away from them, GO! They'll align all the joints in your body and you can start building the cartilege back!  But noooo... he wouldn't do it until his orthopedic surgeon told him to, lol.   

Last week his ortho guy told him to try Egoscue. 

The active friend called to say he made that appt.  They asked him some interesting questions....
"Did he have a fear of snakes?"  I thought that was very interesting, yes yes yes. 
He went on..
"How did he feel about shrunken heads?" 

Well that tells you how friend really feels about it.  He's joking now, but honestly...  I think he's desperate and Western meds done all it can without making jello of the joints, which happens sometimes before folks get to Egoscue.

I have no feelings about it either way and I have to say... last year this time I would have felt resentment and frustration over his refusal to make that appointment a year ealier.   Now... 3 years after i began suggesting it.... he goes bc his Ortho told him to.   That he's done more damage and not begun treating the cause and building back those joints.....
feels.....
almost neutral for me.  There was a small shot of heat through my stomach, but I think it was almost my expectation I'd feel something negative.

I don't.

This is huge progress, IMO.   I used to worry about his joints, and fret and neeeed him to make that appointment.  That's changed. 

This is ringing so many bells with m, Lighter, I have always felt so obliged to share anything that might help with anyone that might benefit from it and then feel dejected if they don't rush off to do it or if it doesn't work for them.  And I just haven't been this time.  I know loads of people who might well benefit from this EMDR - but I'm finding I'm thinking, they know I'm doing it, I'm talking about all the ways it's helping me.  If that pings a recognition in them that it might help them and they want to ask me about it, then I'm happy to talk.  But I feel like I want to save my energy for me now, and people who want to take it further themselves, rather than trying to rescue everyone around me.  We're putting on our own life jackets before fastening other people's now, maybe?

I'm limiting my radio/tv severely.  I notice I go to turn them on without thinking about it.  NOT turning them on refocuses me and helps dial in what's going on inside.  Things pop up.  I breathe mindfully often throughout the day, which IME is a game-changer.

I haven't been doing that but I might give it a go now you've mentioned it!

The boat trip will be sometime in the next 5 days... depending on weather.  I'm not keen on loading the boat down then taking off in high seas, nope nope nope.  I'll get wet no matter what's going on, but want things to be relatively calm and sunny.  Brother said 20 foot waves are 40 feet tall.  DID I post that already?  That's super interesting to me.  I have a fascination with the ocean, some fear and lots of wonder.  My hope is to learn how to drive the boat, handle it in any conditions and make the trip myself.  I think I'll know pretty quickly if it's my thing or not. WOO HOO!  Deep sea fishing again soon!  Not much, and only Queen Trigger fish.... so much fun.   Better than lobster, SO GOOD.

That, for me, is bravery in its highest form!  The thought of a forty foot wave has me getting as far away from any pool of water that may be anywhere near me :)  Lol, I will be glad for you to make the journey on calm seas, Lighter, with some fishing and beautiful sunsets to enjoy, no storms to cope with!  Do you ever get seasick?
The journey continues. 

Lighter

I am really glad all of this is unfolding for you, Lighter.  I shall keep a picture in my mind of you on a boat, with the sun on your back and a clear and calm ocean in front of you :)  It's a good metaphor for life, I think :) xx

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8340
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #100 on: February 09, 2020, 02:52:16 PM »
Tupp:

I think partly it was the prep for court, but also just the hyper-vigilant state of BEING.  We had to live with every consequence, which was out of our control, so we became hyper-focused on everything we could control.   

Yes, I can identify with that, Lighter.  I think also, with parenting (from the perspective of your parenting being questioned), anything you do can be portrayed as a negative, depending on the perspective of someone else.  Take your daughter's recent sleepy day off.  Some would say that's good parenting - you're encouraging healthcare, appreciating the need to rest, allowing her to make her own choices (thereby encouraging independence in adulthood).  And so on.  Whereas some would argue she should have been forced in - a day off encourages laziness, a lack of responsibility, an attitude of not bothering, and so on.  And I think, when you know that anything you do can be used against you, if someone else wants to make it a negative, that hypervigilent state sees you covering all possible bases and it's exhausting.  Yes, I'm nodding!  Well those days of being judged and attacked are gone now, Tupp.  We're safe.
 Our nervous systems will shake it off when we feel safe.  We'll leave it behind, where it belongs.


T and I talked about food stuff at last appt.  It was't about what I thought it would be about, I'll say that.  More about control and feeling unworthy balled up together. 

Yes, that makes sense to me, too.  If I cook from scratch, I'm a good mum.  If I stick a pizza in the ove, I'm lazy and don't care about his health.  That's how I feel about myself so I can understand that it's about control and needing to be worthy.  Yes.

While packing yesterday I notice that old familiar sense of urgency creep in.  I noticed it, banished it or didn't and went on.  Banishing is better.  Much better.  This moring has been pure joy in motion... just focused solely on ONE thing at a time, in the present... so nice.

Yes, it almost feels like if you acknowledge it's there, it won't keep banging on the window asking to be let in?  Yup... we tend to it. Ask it what it has to say..... coming to our senses.... what do we feel?  Where is it in the body?  Breathe into.... calm it down and go back to the present moment. That's how I experience it lately.

I hope the new pathways, old business filed away in historic files (no longer creating the reactivity that USED to pop up in those areas) and being aware... able to choose something else (most of the time, not ALL the time) is working itself into a new way of BEING in the world.  Of SEEING and FEELING and, more than anything, of cutting out the chatter maybe.....
like I'm a firewall maybe?  At some point, maybe the firewall will simply be that open amazing field my T keeps referring to..... SO MUCH SPACE.... and there won't be much chatter or judgment to deal with at all.  And I'll BE that open spacious grassy field with a view of all the trees and pebbles and flowers without effort. 

Maybe there will be automatic acceptance and curiosity about EVERYTHING..... maybe?

Imagine being in that state almost all of the time, Lighter - so freeing and easy?  Oh, that's what's happening, is it? Why YES, TUPP.
 I think it is: )
How interesting!  And then just getting on with what you're doing.  Sounds almost yogi like?  How nice :) It's joy and energy and flow too!


Last night I was tired and about to sleep when I felt a little weird... not bad or good, just weird.  I thought.... Is this what my Dad had?  A little brain bleed and will it kill me or leave me recovering from a stroke?  It's hereditary.

The interesting part of that, from my perspective, is I wasn't worried or frightened or upset or wishing I'd done A, B and C that day.... I was just at peace with it and curious what would come next.  Truly.  Curious. No stomach flip at the thought. It was acceptance.... as default.  I guess.  It felt so much better than what I think of as my "normal" response. 

That is interesting, Lighter, although I'm glad it wasn't a stroke!  But yes, nicer to have a calm reaction than an immediately panicked one.

BTW, I think my brain was adjusting to 12-hour fasts AND small amounts of nutrition-dense foods....salads and bone broths with lots of water(sprinkled with a little pink salt) taken with anti-inflammatories. 
   
Yes, makes sense that might be shifting things around a little.

I've also been stretching ANYTIME I stand up and feel a bit stiff. I refuse to walk funny ONE MORE STEP.  I don't care where I am or who sees.... I STRETCH and that takes care of the stiffness. 

I've been doing the same!  How funny!  Stretching at the bus stop, stretching on the bus, at the cinema, in the queue at the shop.  We were in a shop during the week and son told me to stop dancing - I was bopping around to the music in the shop and hadn't noticed.  When we went to the arcade yesterday son was in once of those racing games, the one where you sit inside a car and race?  I sat in the passenger seat and read my book - wasn't thinking about what other people would think if they saw me.  Taking care of self - it's a new one, isn't it??!   Yes... it's new BUT it's also not something I'm thinking about, planning or trying to make happen.... this time.  It's just flow INTO doing without thoughts about anything else.  I don't think about helping others in those moments. It's complete immersion without distraction.  I know I'm a good person, but I'm a better person when I take care of myself first, consistently.... and that comes and goes... that state of being..... without thinking.   

My left hip started creeking earlier this week... meaning I noticed some hinkiness with lifting left knee, which was a problem this time last year.  The stretches I got from the book PAIN FREE fixed it, more precisely so that's a no brainer.... DO THAT. 

I gave a copy  of the book to my neighbor whose overcoming catastrophic illness, and I'm curious to see how he feels about it and if he tries it. I'm not sure if he can read well or at all... he lost his good eye during the illness, had a stroke, lost a lot of skin and some ligaments.... other things, but he's a warrior and mostly engaged in Western medicine to gut his way back... had his colostomy reversed, but expressing huge interest in "alternative" ideas at this point, for the first time.  He's "awake" now.   

The book PAIN FREE by Pete Egoscue is a big deal with alternative med practitioners... .there's a clinic near my very active friend who suffers from cartilage loss (major loss) in his shoulders mostly, but knees too and he still... he plays high-level tennis, bikes 60 miles a week average, swims, works out with weights used to compete in Jujitsu... triathlons, monitors his sleep with his fit bit, etc.   He's been going to his ortho guy, getting death shots, discussing surgery while I've been saying GO TO THE EGOSCUE CLINIC and just see what they have to say!  You're lucky to live a half-hour away from them, GO! They'll align all the joints in your body and you can start building the cartilege back!  But noooo... he wouldn't do it until his orthopedic surgeon told him to, lol.   

Last week his ortho guy told him to try Egoscue. 

The active friend called to say he made that appt.  They asked him some interesting questions....
"Did he have a fear of snakes?"  I thought that was very interesting, yes yes yes. 
He went on..
"How did he feel about shrunken heads?" 

Well that tells you how friend really feels about it.  He's joking now, but honestly...  I think he's desperate and Western meds done all it can without making jello of the joints, which happens sometimes before folks get to Egoscue.

I have no feelings about it either way and I have to say... last year this time I would have felt resentment and frustration over his refusal to make that appointment a year ealier.   Now... 3 years after i began suggesting it.... he goes bc his Ortho told him to.   That he's done more damage and not begun treating the cause and building back those joints.....
feels.....
almost neutral for me.  There was a small shot of heat through my stomach, but I think it was almost my expectation I'd feel something negative.

I don't.

This is huge progress, IMO.   I used to worry about his joints, and fret and neeeed him to make that appointment.  That's changed. 

This is ringing so many bells with m, Lighter, I have always felt so obliged to share anything that might help with anyone that might benefit from it and then feel dejected if they don't rush off to do it or if it doesn't work for them.  And I just haven't been this time.  I know loads of people who might well benefit from this EMDR - but I'm finding I'm thinking, they know I'm doing it, I'm talking about all the ways it's helping me.  If that pings a recognition in them that it might help them and they want to ask me about it, then I'm happy to talk.  But I feel like I want to save my energy for me now, and people who want to take it further themselves, rather than trying to rescue everyone around me.  We're putting on our own life jackets before fastening other people's now, maybe?

I'm limiting my radio/tv severely.  I notice I go to turn them on without thinking about it.  NOT turning them on refocuses me and helps dial in what's going on inside.  Things pop up.  I breathe mindfully often throughout the day, which IME is a game-changer.

I haven't been doing that but I might give it a go now you've mentioned it!OK... so the TV and radio are mostly OFF.  I listen to Eckhart Tolle.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fi3d0Maed68&feature=youtu.be 
this was the one I listened to while cleaning the tub... I mean... I detailed that tub.
 It was wonderful.  I took apart the handle and bleached it.... took apart the drain and cleared/bleached it.  All down to the surfaces. 

Another HUGE thing about not having the TV on is.... I find I don't have the urge to eat so much.  TV on.... there's almost an underlying tension of need and desire to figure out something to eat..... and I mean constant.  TV OFF... I don't notice hunger or desire to put food in my mouth.  I find I'm enjoying that almost empty feeling again in my life while making mindful choices when I'm truly hungry. If the TV is off I'm likely to put on a pot of bone and veggie broth and have several cups through the day then a super large salad or two..... and I'm OK again.  But once that TV goes on....it feels like Pavlov's dogs.... IS there a message coming through the tv.... eat eat consume eat OR am I just used to a pattern of behaviors?  Not sure, but it's a no brainer to keep the TV off when I'm practicing mindful eating.
 I also like moving through my day when it's quiet, which is new.  I guess I could put a beloved familiar movie on, as background... I don't watch... it's just noise, but..... I'm curious what I'll find in the between the noise and thoughts. 


The boat trip will be sometime in the next 5 days... depending on weather.  I'm not keen on loading the boat down then taking off in high seas, nope nope nope.  I'll get wet no matter what's going on, but want things to be relatively calm and sunny.  Brother said 20 foot waves are 40 feet tall.  DID I post that already?  That's super interesting to me.  I have a fascination with the ocean, some fear and lots of wonder.  My hope is to learn how to drive the boat, handle it in any conditions and make the trip myself.  I think I'll know pretty quickly if it's my thing or not. WOO HOO!  Deep sea fishing again soon!  Not much, and only Queen Trigger fish.... so much fun.   Better than lobster, SO GOOD.

That, for me, is bravery in its highest form!  The thought of a forty foot wave has me getting as far away from any pool of water that may be anywhere near me :)  Lol, I will be glad for you to make the journey on calm seas, Lighter, with some fishing and beautiful sunsets to enjoy, no storms to cope with!  Do you ever get seasick?  I was a car sick kid, but I don't recall being seasick.  Reading in the car is a big NO NO.  Being on the boat, the last trip... no problem at all, thank God.
The journey continues. 

Lighter

I am really glad all of this is unfolding for you, Lighter.  I shall keep a picture in my mind of you on a boat, with the sun on your back and a clear and calm ocean in front of you :)  It's a good metaphor for life, I think :) xx
I think you're spot on with the metaphor, Tupp.   Also, we can view life and the sea and what comes next as friendly or unfriendly.  I I'm choosing friendly! 

Just finished sluffing skin, using pore cleaning strips, then will put on a little tanner and get out of the house.  I know I'll feel better with a little faux sun on my face..... I'm usually notin the frame of mind to care.  Today I'm just DOING without thinking.  No judgment or shoulds... just DOING.  It's nice, (((Tupp.))  Will keep you updated.

Lighter

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8340
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #101 on: March 04, 2020, 12:41:55 PM »
I want to jot down stuff I've been noticing and working on.

Being heard is huge for me now. Speaking with a calm steady voice, not getting emotional and speaking so I feel heard.  Sometimes things come out harsh, in my father's words... with his delivery..... and it's like a blunt object falling.

That's not my way, but it's coming out when I can't find a way and get frustrated.  I see that.  I notice I don't want to do that.  I can speak without getting frustrated going forward....and that's about feeling entitled to be heard, have voice and  take care of myself.  It's my job.  I'm supposed to do that.  It's not up for debate or discussion. I get to do that.  People can listen or not, but there are consequences.

I get to state boundaries and consequences for overstepping.  I get to enforce those boundaries.  There's no question that I will or won't.  It's just how it is.   No fretting or worrying about it now.

I'll handle responses, protests and whining as it comes up and it will come up.  That's OK as long as I don't have to control what others believe or gain their understanding.  I don't need to. 

How I feel and what I understand is the important piece in this.


I feel closer to sibs for the effort to speak up.

I feel understood, like I'm in charge of getting my needs met and will get them met. 

I don't need others to understand or be OK.  I want them to be OK, of course, but that doesn't determine my mental stability. 

I'm responding (more often) and reacting less.  It takes no getting used to.  It's just a change. 

Lighter





Twoapenny

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3566
  • Becoming
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #102 on: March 09, 2020, 11:36:20 AM »
I want to jot down stuff I've been noticing and working on.

Being heard is huge for me now. Speaking with a calm steady voice, not getting emotional and speaking so I feel heard.  Sometimes things come out harsh, in my father's words... with his delivery..... and it's like a blunt object falling.

That's not my way, but it's coming out when I can't find a way and get frustrated.  I see that.  I notice I don't want to do that.  I can speak without getting frustrated going forward....and that's about feeling entitled to be heard, have voice and  take care of myself.  It's my job.  I'm supposed to do that.  It's not up for debate or discussion. I get to do that.  People can listen or not, but there are consequences.

I get to state boundaries and consequences for overstepping.  I get to enforce those boundaries.  There's no question that I will or won't.  It's just how it is.   No fretting or worrying about it now.

I'll handle responses, protests and whining as it comes up and it will come up.  That's OK as long as I don't have to control what others believe or gain their understanding.  I don't need to. 

How I feel and what I understand is the important piece in this.


I feel closer to sibs for the effort to speak up.

I feel understood, like I'm in charge of getting my needs met and will get them met. 

I don't need others to understand or be OK.  I want them to be OK, of course, but that doesn't determine my mental stability. 

I'm responding (more often) and reacting less.  It takes no getting used to.  It's just a change. 

Lighter

I love boundaries more and more, Lighter, things are so much easier when everyone knows where your line in the sand is and doesn't try to trifle with you.  I would just say don't give yourself a hard time if you don't convey as well as you'd like to - we're all still learning and I think it will get easier in time.  The difference between responding and reacting is huge!  Who would have thought.  I'm glad it's starting to mesh together a little easier and coming more easily over time xx

Hopalong

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13466
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #103 on: March 09, 2020, 01:58:27 PM »
That's BIG, Lighter!
About the voice control and demeanor, and not channeling father. Bravo.

I notice that you often mention consequences. Knowing your background in martial arts, I'm sure you mention them in the same calm, unthreatening way. It might be challenging to NOT see dialogue or emotional interactions with loved ones in terms of BATTLE.

Probably the most important consequences in drawing boundaries, in my experience, don't have a ton to do with others (except of course with kids). But mostly, I think, the most valuable consequences are for the self. Such as:

--This dialogue is feeling toxic or borderline abusive to me. My consequence for myself is that I will say, "I am feeling frustrated so I'm going to take a half-hour for a walk. We can continue when I get back." (Or, later today, whatever....)

--This person (non family) does not appear to be hearing me. I will state my request (same calm tone) two more times. If it's not responded to, I will say: "This is not satisfactory to me. I will find someone in a management role to see how to get it resolved." (And then exit.)

Stuff like that. If there is any risk of internally confusing "consequence" with "punishment", it might be best to make the first priority defining consequences for the self. That de-escalates most conflicts, I think. It helps not to live in battle mode.

You know I make all this up, right? Just my opinions. But they do come from years of pondering and thinking about boundaries, fwiw.

Hugs and kudos,
Hops
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lighter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8340
Re: Mindfulness and codependence thread
« Reply #104 on: March 09, 2020, 06:13:59 PM »
Tupp:

I KNOW better than to be hard on myself for doing my best, but sometimes it's not so easy, is it? 

I'm feeling more confident and curious about how I'll handle myself going forward. 

And you're right... the boundaries are so important. ONce they're in place things get easier, cut trouble off at the pass, point out where our attention needs to shift without confusion.

Yup yup yup.

Lighter