Voicelessness and Emotional Survival > Voicelessness and Emotional Survival Message Board
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Hopalong:
((((((((Tupp))))))))) --
I so totally understand why this left you bruised. I completely, entirely agree with you and am very sad about the moral divide this is revealing in so many places.
Perhaps in working with those who are very old and fragile for whom the only release is getting dying over with, your friend has become callous to them. Certainly sounds that way. I don't agree, of course. Though I'm just as frustrated that we get no help with dying when we're very old and miserable, I would never want to be cared for by a worker who considers me expendable rubbish.
All that said, I think your pain got hooked when you tried to reason with her, based on empathy and a moral code she doesn't share. I believe she is wrong and expressed cruel thoughts, and didn't see how parenting your son would make you even more sensitive to the disadvantages of the helpless.
I can't agree with you more, except that I'd like to say you are entirely within your rights of self protection and self care...to simply NOT ENGAGE, when you hear someone (even a friend) starting down an ethical path that shocks and causes pain. Whether on the phone or online or in a message.
You do not have to take the bait. Her attitude does hook loving people, vulnerable people (while you're healthy, you are the parent of someone at risk, which makes you vulnerable)...in our hearts and in our fears. So if someone's clueless enough to talk to you about "useless humans"...you know that's not a conversation to extend.
It was the trying to persuade her that caused the pain, I think. And my guess is her anger was triggered by a moment of shame, perhaps. Either way, I'd lose interest in exploring her thinking...because it's toxic to YOU.
Take care of yourself, and don't take those attitudes IN. It must have felt personal, but it probably wasn't meant that way. She was just speaking out of normal self-absorption, and from her personal experience of being around the very old, bed-bound, helpless old. It's a shame but I think many of those workers do become callous, perhaps to emotionally survive.
I'm really sorry her tale and her opinions appeared in your ear!
Please dust out your ears, let that conversation go away as quickly as you can. Okay, what's it going to be?
Tea and telly? More reminders of nature and the beautiful empathy and community behavior and humane attitudes that are ALSO appearing everywhere? Don't forget them. You are part of THEM. Keep calm and carry on.
Big hugs,
Hops
PS -- She may be a friend, but she's also a prat. Prats often get angry when we say something that gives them an unexpected look at an ugly side of themselves. That's on her too....not your problem. It's good to acknowledge the hurt you felt when she reacted that way. See it and then...intentionally release it, so it doesn't spoil your day.
Twoapenny:
Lol, thanks, Hops, I didn't know 'prat' is a word in America, too :) Lol. Yes, you are right, I've talked it through with another friend on the phone, good friend, it's not even so much that she sees the situation differently to me, it was more that she got angry with me about it and hung up. That was the bit that shook and baffled me. But yes, my ears are dusted out, I am levelling myself out again. It just baffled me a bit. It is weird how people don't leave jobs once they get bitter about them. I can remember working with teachers who hated kids - they were just so sick of the system and so many years of not being appreciated, I think, but I didn't understand why they kept doing the job. I gave up waitressing years ago because I'd got to the point where I didn't care whether people enjoyed their dinner or not. I think that's always the time to leave.
But yes. I am comfort eating pasta. I've got plenty to get on with today, and I will put the music on loud, check in on nice people, enjoy the sun on my face through the window (it's bloody cold out but the sun is lovely if you're inside). And yes, do not engage is the rule. I think I didn't even realise I was engaging until she hung up. I honestly thought she just hadn't been keeping up with what's going on and was working in the dark. But I will keep future conversations to people I know won't get angry with me for expressing a desire to, at the very least, let people die comfortable with someone they love by their side. Sheesh.
I'm adding 'Americans say prat' to my list of things I didn't know. I have also discovered that there is another town the same name as the one my sister lives in, a couple of hundred miles from where she is (I didn't know that before). And that my nan on my dad's side was one of the first people to fly from England to America when they first started doing transatlantic flights! There is apparently a newspaper clipping somewhere that my brother is trying to find for me. I should start a list of new information I discover whilst on lockdown. Lol. Thank you for being there. I appreciate the support very much xx
Hopalong:
I shall appoint myself your old Yank sister or more likely Yank auntie!
Your description of the sudden shock of her getting angry made a lot of sense, too. If you have one small toe on the spectrum, despite your deep loving values, you might be approaching such a conversation with REASON, believing that EXPLAINING moral things works on folks like her. But consider Trump/Johnson voters. (No, don't! It's depressing!)
I absolutely loved what you said about serving tables. "I didn't care whether they enjoyed their dinner or not." It's lovely and wonderful that once you realized that, you decided it wasn't appropriate to continue the job. However, people less connected to logic than you are might have been content to just fake it, with their social signals manufactured and insincere. (And their diners feeling vaguely less content because the server's core indifference still seeped through.)
One of the most wonderful things about you, Tupp, imo, is that you never fake anything. You are utterly genuine and honest and forthright all the way through. That's a characteristic of those with wee spectrum traits that is so often under-appreciated.
I see you! And I think you're fantastic.
Hugs and happier day,
Hops
PS -- Yanks don't say "prat." I'm just an Anglophile; lived in London for six months. I was channeling my inner Brit. (Not brat.) LOL.
Twoapenny:
--- Quote from: Hopalong on March 29, 2020, 09:54:26 AM ---I shall appoint myself your old Yank sister or more likely Yank auntie!
Your description of the sudden shock of her getting angry made a lot of sense, too. If you have one small toe on the spectrum, despite your deep loving values, you might be approaching such a conversation with REASON, believing that EXPLAINING moral things works on folks like her. But consider Trump/Johnson voters. (No, don't! It's depressing!)
I absolutely loved what you said about serving tables. "I didn't care whether they enjoyed their dinner or not." It's lovely and wonderful that once you realized that, you decided it wasn't appropriate to continue the job. However, people less connected to logic than you are might have been content to just fake it, with their social signals manufactured and insincere. (And their diners feeling vaguely less content because the server's core indifference still seeped through.)
One of the most wonderful things about you, Tupp, imo, is that you never fake anything. You are utterly genuine and honest and forthright all the way through. That's a characteristic of those with wee spectrum traits that is so often under-appreciated.
I see you! And I think you're fantastic.
Hugs and happier day,
Hops
PS -- Yanks don't say "prat." I'm just an Anglophile; lived in London for six months. I was channeling my inner Brit. (Not brat.) LOL.
--- End quote ---
Ah, I can't have that on my list of new knowledge now then, curses! Lol.
Thank you for your kind words. It means a lot. I am still feeling very fluffy tummied, which I hate. It will pass, but I find it hard to get on with other things until it does. I will keep at it, though. I realised what I really didn't like is that she's not phoned up with words of support or just to have a friendly, breezy chat. It was her line of conversation, not mine, that took us down that path, and to say those things and then hang up was just nasty. It's kind of popped my 'surviving indoors' bubble so I need to go off now to fix it.
In other news - we are having fish and chips for tea, home made. I've got some nice music on. I will do some yoga later, but I have to wait for my dinner to go down first :) Thank you again xx
Twoapenny:
I have made some cakes for pudding :)
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