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Just when you have a plan and feel great and things happily moving forward

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sKePTiKal:
I'm liking this new term: emotional terrorism. It's a little dramatic, but ya know, when it's happening it certainly FEELS dramatic.

I "think", as I'm still continuing to traverse this path with Hol... that some of this, is a mistaken belief that if "mom" doesn't step in and fix everything (including their own emotional discomfort) that it equates to abandonment. You can almost see thought bubbles over her head - hey, wait, what?! Mom is letting me sit & spin in this emotional cyclone? WTF?? Where's my mommy? I WANT MY MOMMY...

Part of having a relationship with adult kids is slowly educating them to the fact that we are more than that maternal role. That we have our own needs, lives to live, connections to maintain - and growth & exploration to do too. And there is a lot of flailing on both sides, while we figure out how to communicate about these things... where boundaries need to go... who "owns" what emotions & responsibilities within the relationship. Accepting that while we often mirror each other (in both kinds of ways - good & bad) we each "own" our unique differences can help. I try to compliment and validate Hol's strengths that are different than mine. She kinda gravitates toward pointing out my weaknesses instead... but that's because of an idea in her head, that she's always been told she needs to be "different" than what she is. (Wasn't me doing that.) She's worked through a lot of that - on her own, and with friends and me sometimes; not as often anymore.

Even though Hol has the capacity (some days) to take in the whole enchilada of that change and discuss it objectively (sorta)... what works better, is breaking the process down into bite-sized chunks to process, one thing at a time. Remember, I've also been through her trying to "parent" me... when I didn't need or want it. And she piled on from there, with the "you suck as a mom" stuff... you're so repressed... and you're this; you're that... and why don't you do things the way "I" do things? And at the time, it sure felt like emotional terrorism.

But we took things one at a time, talked openly about them, reiterated to each other that our bond, the basic emotional one, isn't the same thing as the fleeting things we feel having to deal with each other as we're "doing" things around the farm - or when she goes to work, etc. And we've always been able to get mad at each other, without it becoming destructive to the fundamental relationship. We forgive (sometimes) and definitely get past things pretty quickly.

You and your girls are starting to figure this out too Lighter. Your way; the way that works for you. It's most definitely WORTH IT.

Hopalong:
Lighter and CB,
I'm quite moved by your inspired navigations around and beside your kids' struggles.

For me, emotional terrorism ended in loss, my personal 9/11. It won over love.

I have so many wishes and regrets, but at base I've accepted that she was entitled to make her own choices no matter her condition/s, and even though I'm agnostic, I pray every day that she has found stability and support and kind people and adequate mental health care. That's what I care about.

The one thing I've given up (mostly) is worry. It was eating me alive (barely alive, at one point) and so fruitless that I finally took the acceptance process all the way inward. I send her love and then release the outcome, so to speak.

I'm really glad your wisdom, deep commitments and courage have led to where you are. It's good to see.

hugs
Hops

lighter:
I have such gratitude for the shared maternal experiences.
CB, Hops and Amber.....
truly.

Such gratitude.

This afternoon, Oldest dd drove youngest to the botanical garden after helping her get dressed........the gathering is a Goth themed affair, complete with black Demonias.  They're a creative, happy bunch.   Both girls seem relaxed and happy right now. I've got my head down, working on paint plan for trim, doors and walls.... what colors, where to begin and end..... adding trim to the front door and perhaps the master bedroom french doors so we don't waste any steps.  I always go back to.....
how do we get the biggest bang for the buck AND limit the amount of work.  There have to be limits and that helps a lot. 

i have some reservations around NOT spending more time DOING holiday type things with the girls,but they've been reveling in playing games since DD19 built her new computer. I hear joyful laughter and don't interrupt it. I'm happy doing what I'm doing.  They seem very happy doing what they're doing.  Sometimes I think they SAY they're upset at the lake...with the renovation, but are using that to express a general unhappiness and specific unrest around our shifting relationships and the stress of growining up without having set plans for themselves.  It's difficult to not KNOW what's going to happen, esp when some friends are already IN school witih plans and one cousin graduated from University this year. 

I find I have several modes of operating around them....moving slowly and calmly..... as though I'm dealing with nervous birds OR high energy GET THINGS DONE mom.....firing reasonable requests/asking politely but firmly for help and or for them to handle things I usually handle without complaint.  Sometimes it's around care for the pug..... just normal things and I have to pay attention to see if that sometimes kicks off dd19's.... well...... it does.  She sees older dd21 NOT helping for years, while creating chaos..... while dd19 did pitch in... acting as an older sib would,which also upset oldest dd who noted it with shame and upset while at therapeautic boarding school.  There's always been that tension and I'm the kind of mom who points out strengths..... to the point the girls have badly criticised me for going overboard, which isn't my reality.  I can't play the piano like a boss. Listening to them practice SOUNDS amazing to me and they get that, but still....they can be unkind while working that out, ending in acceptance I have no musical talent and honestly don't KNOW what's good playing and what's not.  Coming from a family sans care or appreciate for music lessons, I'm impressed with the discipline to practice and master ANYTHING.... be in a band.  Nuff said about that, but it's a theme with criticizing my parenting, as others have mentioned.  Repeating pattern of girls competing for attention and to be NAMED the favorite child. I remember youngest used to ask who I'd save if I could only save one in a flood.  She asked that a lot, actually.  I'd always answer the same way....the could both swim, I'd make sure they both survived and I'd make it too.  End of discussion. 

If pushed and pushed I might say one was obviously more helpful or easier to be around,bc that was the blatant truth.  The T who did a pscyh eval on me said oldest dd "didn't reinforce my parenting" whatever that meant.  It FELT like having an oppositional defiant child smacking me in the back of the head for 10 years, frankly and I don't want to get into why, bc I think it makes me sound a bit unhinged to say it without having hard proof.....

:;whispering::.

it was my MIL poisoning her emotionally..... DD would never SAY that, but she admitted to "tormenting" me without giving a reason. THAT MIL sent her home to me defiant and oppositional, proclaiming she didn't have to do anything I said,bc i was a murderer, a thief and a criminal..... IMHO DID have something to do with it.  That I took her out of a school where she was acting superstar...which she mourned and lamented and continued to dissociate, which BEGAN with the visits to the In Laws...... just saying.  It happened.

Oldest DD began guilting me about youngest being my favorite years ago..... when they were 6 and 8yo I suppose.  I KNOW that impacted the way I speak to oldest dd..... my stepfather said I sounded "frightened" of her and maybe I was, bc I was fighting in 2 or 3 courtrooms at any given time, dealing with placating N attorneys and all the people who go with trial prep.....  and family members.... and school mums and teachers and people helping me get through and people saying they would but who just didn't and then I was flat footed trying to find someone to pick kids up from the bus stop, bc there was NO ONE slotted in.....I had a lot to do on very little sleep and limited coping strategies.  BIG pat on the back I'm here and doing as well as I am...
::pat pat pat::.  Yup yup yup.  Big. 

I do want to clarify....... the reason DD19 spends so much time at the Lake house (which happens to be under renovations) is bc she's seeing the Nutritionist in Atlant and the lake is a good point for traveling back and forth without wearing me out.  I have had to stop and nap, on occassion, but driving all way from home to that appointment THEN to tthe lake is just too hard, though I've done it more than once.  I don't feel safe driving while delieriously tired and i don't feel safe napping at gas stations either. 

It's not so much me forcing participation as it is multi tasking in a way that preserves my emotional and physical health and both our safety as spending the night with folks in Atlanta feels very risky and IS very risky, IME.  Me driving too tired is a risk.  I try to balance everything and I can't please everyone perfectly.  The girls likely feel pressure from me to GROW THE HECK UP when I'm busy DOING other things..... like renovating properties and that's cause for whatever uspet it causes them,but I can't save them from that. I feel perfectly reasonable asking them to pick up their own stuff and carry it, including the dog and effort in the kitchen and all that goes with it.  I've veered off of asking them to participate in the renovation, though youngst helped paint the dog pee pee sub floor to get the job done.  She's been a trooper and you know what? 
I
modeled
being
a
trooper.

Both girls have it in them.  Both can rise and both have at different times under different circumstances.  DD21 rose at work..... she adulted, I would say, in that year so I KNOW she can do it, even if she's not practicing self care at home.... she has it in her to DO whatever she sets her mind to, as does dd19. I;ve released expectation and turned to my own stuff. I have things to tend to.  I know this. It's OK... it's just a reset.  A shift.  A new way of seeing mom, for the girls and of me seeing myself.  Like shifting sands under our feet...what used to be set in stone is now dissolving and being rebuilt in ways we're all learning about together.  Boundaries. Yes.

Both girls have some perfection issues, as do I.  It's not optimal,can be paralyzing, but it is what it is. There are pros and cons and we're getting pretty good at spotting it.  I know, depending on "the lean" more and more, is a balm to my soul moving me through my days with less angst and worry.  Food has been an issue for all of us... just the truth.  I think it's difficult for everyone, at some point, bc eventually.  It's certainly not just we three.

 Hops.... I do think about doing everything I can, releasing outcome and embracing acceptance....releasing worry wtih everything... just more moving parts and pieces with kids.  There are. It definitely is a 2 steps foward and 1 step back dance with shifting roles and responsibilities...... stuff rubbing against each other's stuff...... herky jerky movement to and fro the goal of all three having our own vibrant, independent lives, sans blame, shame and fear.  Sometimes the herk and jerk seem like the problem when I lose emotional distance.
 
DD19 was fine with spending time at the lake, as I've said, until her sister began traveling with us or that's how I remember it NOW. Then the jealousy and emotional tumoil became more pointed and.....more terrorist like, I admit.  DD19 broke down when I challenged her on it and refused to budge on a boundary I set, but hadn't really pushed back on till recently.  I was doing the slow, calm mom thing.... pretending I was near a nervous bird routine.  I only wish I'd held that boundary with less emotional energy, bc she could tell she'd touched my stuff,which was her goal.  I admit it. I tend to get pushed beyond my ability to cope,which is pretty far...then I get a bit snappy.  No raging.  Just wide eyes and super pointed.....absolutely I could extend compassion while holding boundaries and that's my goal. THAT is what I really find challenging..... to FEEL less reactive and stressed and worried around the girls' stress of adulting, feeeeeling fear around their uncertain futures. DD19 talks a lot about the world heading into the crapper, bc global warming and plague and our culture's fixation on greed and separating the workers from the means of production so they can't afford to work 2 jobs and keep a roof over their familie's heads or food on the table.  She feels these things very deeply and voices that.  I don't tell her she has nothing to worry about, bc she does, obviously.  I tell her I have a trauma informed T lined up.... I tell both girls this and so far neither have taken me up on it. I should forward it to both and releases expectation.  I don't need to be involved and shouldn't be involved.  That settles that.

::making all three of our dentist appointments.... and worrying DD19's "hypocrit!" criticism has some merit::.

I so want to rise above my stuff getting touched and just glide over it with buckets of sturdy cement applied to my boundaries with a fairy trowel.... effortless and second nature.... without upset.  I try not to judge myself harshly when I fail.... just remind myself gently I CAN do this....and will, with practice.  I express sorry dd19 feels difficult things...some aimed at my head and heart.  I acknowledge and validate her and I have to admit to her I wasn't perfect, never claimed to be....I did the very best I could, as a mom.  I cant go back and change anything, but honestly..... I'm shocked I did as well as I have, considering the ongoing conflict and crisis we lived in..... all those years spent sheltering them and wondering if I was doing them a disservice..... sometimes sure I was, but I honestly can't imagine NOT protecing and shielding them, so....
ya....
acceptance, Hops.

And learning not to let the kids go for my jugular when they're struggling.... or at least not letting it create reactivity FOR ME. That's IT.  It's everything.  Creating those few seconds to choose responsiveness and choice.

Doing our best, releasing outcome then moving into acceptance without tortmented rumination...... is a very good goal for all, me'thinks.

I repeat and blather incoherently a bit, I'm sure, but I'm multi tasking like mad and not proofing that response, Maybe later; )

Lighter

sKePTiKal:
You won't hear any criticism from this direction Lighter. It's TOUGH; been there, no it, no one's perfect -- and even when we're trying to do things differently from what we experienced in our FOO -- it still recreates puzzles for the kids  in their own lives, to solve.

But multi-tasking - even when you're good at it, as I see you are - does take it's toll. You know this. Reducing the number of things you're trying to juggle - even if it's just temporarily - would be a form of self-care. Yes, you're the responsible party for things like the Lake House work and the cottage and home...

but I wonder if you can allow more delegation of the girl's lives to THEM... and more space into your relationship with them... while maintaining more of a detached supervisory role about the practicalities of life? Driving, jobs, school... are the practicalities. Reinforcing the idea that being independent of others in those areas is a form of "safety" and "security" to survive the always existing issues of connection & romance that they are of an age to explore.

I wonder if that would give you more room to BE and rediscover your life?

lighter:
Hi, Amber:

As I write this, youngest dd is in another State, with a friend who shares her eating disorder and a fake I.D.  I've been receiving very kind updates and pictures.... Chuck E Cheese pics, making apple dumplings.... but I'm pretty sure the other mother is taking them to a Speak Easy and it's hoped no one drives drunk or is assaulted. DD is very charming and draws attention from the wrong quarters.  Her friend isn't charming, but she's attractive in a way that attracts Type A men, so..... I'm just breathing through it, breathing through it, breathing through it.  Finding my way back to center if a rabbit hole starts to take me. 

Oldest dd is calm and relaxed in my presence. Not sure how it happened, but she's (mostly)making better food choices.... when we had soft toacos the other night she didn't eat the second corn tortilla on any of her tacos. I ate every one of mine, scarfed them right down, I did.  She's joining in food choices, shopping, meal prep and eating together, which was impossible this time last year when she'd done just what she said she was going to do.... eaten whatever she wanted whenever,, which was mostly ice cream and noodles.  She refused to be near me..... I guess she thought I'd criticize, shoot her a look or otherwise yuck her yum.  I had to pull back on my reigns and NOT do that, ever...... just let her figure out I was done treating her like a child.  I guess she has. 

I've had this really deep desire to see the girls grow into their own lives.....  Since you wrote it out..... I do look forward to exploring who I am, now. 

I'm not who I was 10, 15, 20 and more years ago, that's certain. 

I'm curious.

Ahh...I didn't come to this thread to post about me.  I came to post about Amazon T's situation.....
Just when you have a plan and feel great and things are moving forward.....
BLAM!  One right in the chops and it's not going away anytime soon.  The lady downstairs has been frightened away.....T is alone and feeling terribly threatened.... perhaps IS under threat.  I'm not sure how this got so far down the road,  but Ifeeeeeel the same way about it as I did 14 years ago when I thought my martial arts instructor might step up and DO something... or my brother..... or the police, but they didn't.  And the men who're commenting at her complex seem to be engaging in the hooliganism.

It feels like there's a missing piece in socieity...... is it men willing to stand up and do the right thing?  What IS that right thing? 

Why can't women DO that right thing?

And....... some women DO overcome situations ike this...w hy is that?

Do they feel entitled to be heard and protected by the laws and rules of society?  Do they ask in a way that can't be ignored or punished? Do they have powerful advocates? Tax paying advocates?  Connected advocates?

It seemed to me the laws weren't followed on my account, ,but my ASPD stbx received every benefit and every chance.

The charming agressor is difficult to peg, IME.

I don't know how much ignoring the problem is the cops not wanting to deal with it...... how much is them ignoring us, bc of how we present..... how much is them being overwhelmed with no time to bother......how much is the lack of zero tolerance in our culture..... it's not really a crime.... it's something all men do and someone has to be harmed in order for anythng to be done, which feels more accurate.  My second divorce attorney said all men go nuts during divorce...they all make death threats, it's no big deal.  Ummm.... WHY is it no big deal when it's happening to a vulernable woman and children trapped in a situation with a bully who just might follow throuogh on a threat? If someone threatened a cop or a Senator or a man..... someone would care... is how it seems to work, IME. 

When I was 11yo or so, my father said the KKK used to go around and thump white men who beat their wives.  A group of hooligans committing atrocities AND stepping in to stop violence against vulnerable members of society, bc.....
bc....... they knew ONE was wrong, even if they didn't understand the other was evil.

Who steps in now, if anyone? 

When I was in my twenties, a friend from grade school flew in from California to see about his sister and her husband's bad marriage. The husband was beating his sister.  When the h opened the door and saw my friend standing there.... a Jujitsu practitioner, he said "You're here to beat my ass."
My friend replied...."That's the mission" and beat his ass. End of his sister's beatings.
That same grade school friend went on to open a Jujitsu studio and train up his two daughters in Jujitsu. One competed as an adult wen she was just 13yo, I thnk it was.  She's a super badass and will take over running the studio.  There will be no overt domestic violence that family.  There just won't, IMO. 

I would have to say my martial arts instructor commiserated more with my ASPD stbx than anything, bc all he was getting was his side of the story?  Not sure..... likely not...... I think maybe he would have liked to have controlled me too and the same with my brother.... he would liked to have controlled his wife the way my ASPD was controlling or seeming to get away with controlling me.

There were no men in my realm who would stand up and tell my ASPD to stop.... except the ticked off cop who wanted to arrest my husband right off the bat....and I wanted only to file a courtesy report. I'd cut my own throat, bc the the cops were angry at me for doing what most women do in that situation.... trying to keep or restore peace with little children involved in a situation spiraling out of control.

How out of control is T's situation heading...... and why doesn't anyone care the neighbors are being driven out by this situation?  It seems like they'd care maybe IF those 2 apartments couldn't be filled and they were losing rents? Or..... if new renters were big and agressive thumpers themselvs leading to a little war? 

The sheep
The wolves
The shepherds



Fleeing is the word I'm looking for.  The down neighbor left like her hair was on fire..... why doesn't anyone DO something?
What did the people being evicted DO to get evicted, if indeed someone is being evicted?  Why and who left T's apartment?

Last night I read about a 19yo couple in my area playing loud music in their apartment, during the holiday weekend, early afternoon.  The downstairs neighbors, married, older with young children, came upstairs pounding on their door then tried to gain entrance and physically assault the 19 yos. The kids called the cops, but the only ones cited were the kids by the apartment manager for playing loud music. 

Now.... that's interesting to me..... someone stood up, but they wanted to beat up non threatening teenagers and tried... actually tried to push their way INTO the teen's apartment.  Maybe the teens were being smart arses.....not sure, only got their side of the story, but their message is to never open your door to neighbors asking you to turn down the music.  They said they would have turned it down if asked politely,. but there was no request outside the pounding and pouncing.

I'm conflicted about this. 

And looking for paint while my foot is healing..... to paint the dolls for Halloween decorations. 

I've decided I can paint the lake kitchen cabinets with the boot on....I sort of like the boot.  I feel like I'm playing a part and it's comfortable, rocks so no bones in the move...... I can wear it for 2 mor more months, no prolem. With the proper sneaker aligning height.... it's just fine.  I will heal this foot.

I've also decided I want to find someone to braid big Viking braids into my hair weekly.  Usually I swirl my hair into a quck top knot, but it;s like cotton candy and matts quickly, typically at the scalp.  I'm so tired of dealing with knots.. 

Lghter




 

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