Author Topic: Developing A Personality  (Read 4859 times)

sKePTiKal

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #90 on: January 23, 2025, 06:50:11 AM »
Are you ready for this storm, Tupp? I'm hearing Scotland might be impacted as well as Ireland.
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lighter

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #91 on: January 23, 2025, 04:13:45 PM »
 I'm curious what you've been up to, Tupp.  How're things?
Lighter

Twoapenny

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #92 on: January 25, 2025, 10:20:57 AM »
Hi both, thank you, the storm was horrendous.  You wouldn't believe it today, it's so calm and sunny, but we had 90mph winds from the early hours of the morning until late in the evening, which was then followed by snow.  Fortunately for us we are in a bit of a dip which I think protected us from the worse of it.  We've not suffered damage beyond the garden taking a bit of a battering, we've not lost power (went off briefly a few times but only for a few minutes), phones are still working (and internet!).  But all around us there are trees down, roads blocked, people without power or phones, they've set up mobile food vans in some areas to feed people who've no power, I've seen pictures of roofs off, windows blown in and all sorts.  Very scary.  I'm very glad it's over and hope not to experience it again.

I'm still just trying to work through all my issues.  At times I feel like two people.  There's a person I could be/would have been if the abuse hadn't happened.  There's the person I am, whose had to develop an incredibly tough shell to keep the other one safe.  I'm a bit nervous about 'talking' to different parts, I kind of worry it might become something I'm no longer conscious of and turn in to a proper 'mental health' situation, but at the same time it almost feels like the 'protected' person, whilst having a range of interests, skills and hobbies, doesn't have any ability to cope with real life situations, because she's never experienced them.  Almost like those useless adults you get who rely completely on their parents because they've never been taught how to problem solve, look after themselves, build a bit of resilience and so on.  The protected part doesn't feel safe enough to do anything; even drinking a glass of water creates a feeling of vulnerability that I don't get when I drink coffee, simply because the caffeine creates a bit of fizz which overrides any feelings.  So I've been trying to work with that and I think it's helping, but I've never been so tired in my life.  I've not even got out of bed today, I just don't have any energy.  It feels like the internal work is taking everything up.  Which hopefully is a good thing.

I start counselling with Rape Crisis next month so I've been trying to work things out on paper, to get things straight in my head so that I don't waste sessions just waffling on about things that aren't important.  I've been writing a lot about my childhood and that's been hard.  I've had to acknowledge how involved my mum was in the sexual abuse and I've found that very difficult.  I've also been putting together a family tree, and seeing how many relatives we have, and how not one of them even thought to take my sister and I out every now and again, just to get us out of that situation, has been hard to absorb as well.  I can see how it's difficult to feel worthwhile as an adult when everyone in your life through childhood either ignores you or berates you.

The positive is my sister and I have been talking more, and that's really helping our relationship.  It's interesting that she tends to remember practical details, and I remember the more emotional stuff.  I had some photos of our dad that she didn't have.  I didn't realise; I'd always assumed my mum did us copies so we both had them but it seems she didn't even bother to do that, so I've copied them and sent them to her.  We've talked about how nice it would be to find out we were adopted :)  I would really love to know that woman's genes don't exist inside me.

So yep, that's where we are.  It's tough going, I'm not enjoying it to be truthful, I'm feeling very envious of people that just go to work, watch a bit of telly and go to bed.  The fact it's winter doesn't help; the short days really do me in and although they're getting longer now, it's still a lot of dark to cope with.  It is what it is.  It does feel more like two steps forward, pause, step forward again, which is better than two forward and three back, which is what usually happens.  I'm hoping the counselling is useful.  It would be nice to finally get past this for good.

Just editing to add:  I think the big problem I've got now is that my efforts to ensure my son's childhood was nothing like my own have been successful but - he's now facing the same adult life I've had, which is of isolation, lack of connection and low income.  I put all my effort into keeping abusive people and traumatic experiences out of his life, but it didn't leave me enough left over to work on myself enough to build healthy relationships with people, and I've found hiding in my shell the only way to cope.  So he has no-one but me, same as I have no-one but me.  I need to change that.  I think the 'protected' part of me kind of dies if being nice doesn't elicit the desired response - having not learnt how to take the knocks and be secure without getting a certain kind of feed back.  So the survivor part of me is the one that goes out into the world, but she doesn't attract the kind of people I want, so I always end up a bit in the middle, knowing a lot of people but no-one really knowing me.  I need to work on that but that feels kind of scary as well, it's never knowing where the tipping point might be, going over the edge and not being able to get back up.  And not having any help to do it, either.  So it becomes a kind of self fulfilling prophecy - there's no-one there to catch me if I fall, so I can't try, which means I'll never have anyone to catch me, and on it goes.  Something else to work on.  Anyway, I'm rambling.  I've got up, I've had a bath, I'm going to tidy up and cook some dinner and then I'm going back to bed.  Do feel less tired, actually, I'm hoping some decent sleep tonight and some reasonable weather tomorrow will help xx
« Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 12:02:53 PM by Twoapenny »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #93 on: January 25, 2025, 04:42:27 PM »
As messy as it feels and sounds... I think you're doing OK dealing with it. You're doing a lot of different positive  things, actually. And yes, it's OK if you have a day or two to doze in bed while all this heavy stuff is getting brought into the light of conscious acknowledgement. It does indeed take a lot of energy.

I'm glad the storm wasn't worse for you than it was. Storms are part of life, and after we've cleaned up & put things right again... we'll be more ready for the next time.

Knuckles is wiggling an ear at you - his way of waving HIIIIIIIiiiiii!  LOL.
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Twoapenny

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #94 on: January 28, 2025, 11:44:33 AM »
Lol, Hi Knuckles!  Our cat is glaring at me because I gave him his worming treatment today and he doesn't like it so now he's in a mood :)  Lol

I am finding it difficult.  I'm napping/resting when I can and just trying not to push myself too hard for too long, but I feel like an invalid at times and I'm finding that hard going.  I do wish there was some way to just sleep through your brain and nervous system reprocessing everything and working it all out so you can just wake up better :)

I do find the guided meditations on YouTube helpful, and there's one I've been doing where you connect with the part of yourself that doesn't feel you're worthy or that you're good enough.  I've not been able to connect with that part of myself; I've done the meditation every day for the last week or so and each time what I see instead is the part of myself that's been hidden and protected.  The protector is out of shot, uncontactable, very protective but also quite smothering and demanding.  It kind of makes sense because that's how my co-dependency plays out; it's not out of kindness but more a sort of 'not like that, you idiot' approach.  I wrap it in kindness, of course, because I'm nice and I want everyone to think I'm nice.  But I do have a strong sense of my approach being the only way to get it done properly and everyone else being wrong, and it is quite deeply unpleasant.  Hadn't seen it in such stark terms before.

But the meditation changed today; there was a glimmer of the protecting part, very angry as the hidden part was saying it's alright, she can go now, everything's fine, she can manage on her own.  The protector part is shouting no, I'm not going, you're not safe, you can't cope without me.  Like a very angry child, you know how sometimes kids get really wound up and they don't even know why?  Just that whirlwind of energy that has to be obeyed even though they don't know what they want.  There was a shift, though.  Quite looking forward to doing it tomorrow and seeing what happens then.  Hoping it's a sign of healing and not one of insanity :0 xx

sKePTiKal

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #95 on: January 29, 2025, 05:38:49 PM »
I think it's getting sorted out, Tupp. Maybe a bit messy getting there - but everyone's being heard. That's a good start.
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Twoapenny

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #96 on: January 30, 2025, 07:41:07 AM »
Thank you for the reassurance, Skep, I appreciate it :)

I think because doing this 'kind of thing' is a bit - esoteric?  metaphysical? woo woo?  I'm not sure of the right way to describe it, but it's not normal, practical, functional stuff.  It feels a bit otherworldly, and I'm conscious of not having anyone close to hand who would notice if I was detaching from reality.  Feels a bit like walking on a tightrope without a safety net.

That said - I've carried on doing the meditation and the protecting part has grown quiet and sad.  The protected part is reassuring her and feeling stronger.  I've always been conscious that I create a narrative in my head and then try to live that, rather than just living and getting on with it.  I talked to a therapist about it years ago- if I do x, y and z, then I'll be safe and things will be okay.  I've been aware of it for a long time, it's just always been very difficult to get past it.  I had three really horrible dreams last night and woke up feeling awful very early this morning.  But - the need to create a narrative seemed to have receded.  I didn't try to tell myself anything, or give myself a talking to, or try to create a scenario to motivate myself.  I went through my circumstances in my head, and they're not great at the minute but I got up and just went and got on with sorting food out and doing some baking and food prep.  I went and put some things away, came back, and my son had cut himself a slice of bread from an uncut loaf.  I know it doesn't sound like much, but he's never been able to physically do that before, nor has he even wanted to attempt it (even as recently as two days ago - I asked him if he wanted to try and he said no).  Came back in to the room today and he'd not just tried it, he'd done a good job, made himself a sandwich, rewrapped the bread and had cleaned the knife.  It's a small thing, but it's huge at the same time.  So on some level it felt like that bit of release in me has somehow increased what he can do.  I know it sounds mad (and it's probably just coincidence) but that's how it felt.  It felt good.

I'm very tired so I've decided to have a quiet day, and I haven't had to think about it or balance it out in my head.  I'm just on the sofa with my feet up, my son's at his group, I've got the dinner ready for later so it's fine.  I can rest. Must admit I'm hoping for a better night's sleep tonight, I do struggle with being so tired during the day.  But it still feels like moving forward rather than stalling and getting stuck all the time xx

lighter

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #97 on: January 30, 2025, 10:30:19 AM »
Oh ....(((Tupp!!)) I'm so excited ds made his samich AND also cleaned and put away after!!  It sounds like sea change to me.  New skills, yes, but also initiative
on
his
own!!! Woo hoo,

I was about to post my last T appointment when I caught up your thread.  Will just say my T asks my protector parts, and any others besides the child/wounded part to actually take a seat in the waiting room.

All parts are asked permission for whatever we're doing....no matter what.

Getting down to curiosity helps everything for me.....the frustration can go to waiting room too.

I'll put the experience on my thread, but you're processing and it sounds really good.

Lighter



Twoapenny

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #98 on: January 30, 2025, 11:24:41 AM »
It does feel like shifts are happening, Lighter.  The other weird thing (after the sandwich success) was this; my son's day today consists of him meeting his group at the bus stop, and them all catching the bus together.  They go to one centre for morning activities, then catch another bus and go somewhere else for different activities.  Then they all catch the bus home together.  There are staff at the centres and the group that travel on the bus mostly live alone and are very independent and they watch out for him, they're very sweet and they call check in on each other (ie they'd never get on the bus and leave him behind).  Despite all of that I still worry, so he has a tracker on his phone which I check several times a day if he's out, and I usually get to the bus stop ten minutes before his bus arrives so that I'm definitely there on time.  But today I got there just as his bus pulled in, and it was only when we got home I realised I didn't check the tracker once all day.  Didn't think not to do it or set myself a goal not to worry, just didn't think about it and didn't do it.  And it feels like a good thing, not a negligent mum thing.  Now if he got a bit more independent and I worried about him a bit less - that would be a very good thing indeed.

Hopalong

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #99 on: January 30, 2025, 06:55:51 PM »
Tupp.
Quote
I put all my effort into keeping abusive people and traumatic experiences out of his life, but it didn't leave me enough left over to work on myself enough to build healthy relationships with people, and I've found hiding in my shell the only way to cope.  So he has no-one but me, same as I have no-one but me.  I need to change that.  I think the 'protected' part of me kind of dies if being nice doesn't elicit the desired response - having not learnt how to take the knocks and be secure without getting a certain kind of feed back.  So the survivor part of me is the one that goes out into the world, but she doesn't attract the kind of people I want, so I always end up a bit in the middle, knowing a lot of people but no-one really knowing me.  I need to work on that but that feels kind of scary as well, it's never knowing where the tipping point might be, going over the edge....

Tupp, at this, I felt silenced by respect. You know? The way your head just tips forward in acknowledgement of a truly impressive and powerful voice of honesty and INSIGHT. Again.

I only hooked onto one thing, at the end....the "tipping point." I think that's where experimenting socially with reaching out, retreating in, taking risks, enduring silences, hoping for understanding, coping with the shortfall... is hardest for you.

And that, to me, sounds like believing survival itself depends on sussing out all the social codes, AND, unwittingly, looking to each new human connection as a chance for a Pass or Fail grade, as we call it here. If they don't get it/you, or they are dull as dishwater, or they blow you off, or they prove superficial...you interpret it as YOU failed (even though your inner realistic critic is mad at them for being whatever they are).

When really, they're just regular farting fools in a particular moment or exchange, and they aren't your primal loss. Maybe, maybe, you're unintentionally experiencing the RE-loss of Loving Mother in every chance for friendship? Either She Shows Up or you re-experience that ungodly primal rejection.

I dunno, just where my mind went.

I send you so much love for all this.


hugs
Hops
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Twoapenny

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #100 on: January 31, 2025, 12:16:51 AM »
Hops, I'm sorry for your device troubles!  These things can take so long to remedy sometimes.  Hopefully not much longer now.

Yes, I think that's absolutely it, completely my responsibility for whether things go well or not.  If they're not interesting enough that's because I'm not so I can't expect it on anyone else, if they talk too much it's because I'm obviously passive/a pushover/not worth listening to, if they're friends for years and then vanish it's because I choose the wrong friends.  It's absolutely all on my shoulders, isn't it exhausting?

I'm hoping the more I can develop awareness of myself and get to a point where I can have enough space to notice the reaction, rather than it taking control of the situation, I can get more into a mindset of seeing other people's 'stuff' as theirs, rather than mine.  Hopefully being able to be a bit accommodating - talking too much can be nerves, for example, or being a bit more assertive - actually, I don't enjoy talking about politics, could we discuss cats instead - but not to the extent where they become a project or another friendship that drains the life out of me.

Getting there, I reckon I'll have figured it all out by the time I'm a hundred and ten :)  Lol xx

Editing to include my meditation this morning.  The protecting part is now very small and is screaming at me "You're disgusting, you're disgusting!"  I sat and cried.  Kind of missed the rest of the meditation because I was crying but I'm hoping it's another step in the right direction.  I do wonder what we went through before we were even able to notice it or understand it.  I don't have the feeling that my mother was a loving, devoted parent to her babies and then changed when they became old enough to remember.  Tired again, so tired.  Trying to think about each thing I do - will this reduce stress or create stress.  My son has a group this afternoon, am just thinking there's a nice quiet carpark nearby, might just take a blanket and pillow, lock the doors once I've dropped him off and have a little nap.

Editing again because, as I was doing my head massage (yes, I'm trying very hard with the relaxation and self care stuff) I realised that all these years I've built conversations and responses in my head in order to protect myself from allegations and criticisms, I've actually just been finding ways to criticise myself.  It's so weird, I don't do the self criticism, I imagine it coming from another source and then have to argue against it. But it's just me finding things about myself that can be criticised.  Which is everything, let's face it, a critical person will always find something to criticise in someone.  I've created a living version of my mother in my head, disguised her as myself and then tormented myself for decades.  Bloody hell!  Why does it take so long for this stuff to make itself obvious?  It's not like I haven't been trying for the last twenty years.  Whenever I have these imaginary conversations (and they run throughout the day, it never ends), it's never once occurred to me to just presume the other person is an idiot (farting fools, Hops, like you say) and pay no mind to it.  Come to that, why have I spent so many years analysing my mother's reasons for being the way she is when the plain truth could be that she's an idiot?  Honestly, I need a cup of tea now.

And editing again, they're coming thick and fast this morning.  I do abandon people once their flaws become impossible to ignore.  I didn't realise I do it.  Getting to a point with someone where their problems consume me, yes, that's been clear and is reasonable, I think, if it gets too much to cope with.  But there are people I know who are decent people, kind, funny, will help out at times - but I don't think they've coped with their lives properly.  They drink, or overspend, or overeat, or watch telly all weekend, instead of dealing with their own abuse/trauma/neglect situations (and I think that's always at the bottom of it all).  I don't feel like I judge them?  Maybe I do.  But I do feel like they're doing it wrong.  And then I avoid them.  But actually, assuming the things they do aren't actually causing me a problem then - it's not my thing to worry about?  And it's not a reflection of me being inadequate?  Just ordinary people muddling through life as best they can?  Having good qualities as well as being a bit crap in some areas?  Dealing with their problems differently to me?  Not necessarily better or worse.  Just not the same.  Hmmm.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2025, 04:05:46 AM by Twoapenny »

sKePTiKal

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #101 on: January 31, 2025, 08:59:06 AM »
OH TUPP...

as Hol sez, people are just doing the best they CAN. There is no right/wrong way to live life - despite all the self-help industry's opinion to the contrary. After all, they're making a living off of telling people how to be happier, more content, more successful..... etc ad nauseum.

Internal critics manifest in various ways. And, I find, it's one of the hardest things to change or let go even after years of working through the ways we've been trapped by trauma events and the later "life lessons" that reinforce those things. It's still doable.

The power of those internal narratives... oh my. I am still stunned by how we twist things up in our heads, to try to make SOME sense out of what happened to us and justify emotions... or beliefs about ourselves... or whatever (I suspect this is a lot of what makes/breaks "self esteem" and "self respect".)

B has a rock solid, inpenetrable, unbreakable narrative that (I see) as imprisoning him, and actually making his physical struggle worse. It also uses up all his attention, perception, and energy/caring to give to another person. When the narrative quiets down, then he's back to his warm, cozy, funny FLEXIBLE self. Some of his OCD characteristic is a similar thing to your protector self.

One more observation, then I'll "shut it" - lately, I'm not doing lengthy, deep dive, totally focused analytical processing of things. It's been more productive to do a bit here... a bit there... poke my head above water & take another look... and only occasionally looking to see if any of those puzzle pieces fit together. Not advocating that as a pattern for anyone, just noting the change from years ago when I was just as obsessed as B about trying to make sense of things.

You're not stuck, from what I can see. You're moving right along up the spiral of progress.
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Hopalong

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #102 on: January 31, 2025, 12:28:05 PM »
I'm still treading water in the quotidian so can't write what you deserve, so I'll cheat by pasting in today's advice from Carolyn Has in The Washington Post. Big hugs, Hops:

Parents don't even remember hitting us
Guest12:04 p.m.
Growing up my brother and I were frequently subjected to corporal punishment like slapping and spanking. I've been resentful and struggled with intrusive violent thoughts from a young age that my therapist says stem from my early childhood exposure to aggression. This came up during a recent conversation with my mom. She shut me down and said she never hit us. She's downplayed it before but not that explicitly. My dad also denied ever hitting us. I mentioned a time when he slapped me and my brother for denting the car with our baseball. My dad denied it. After my brother confirmed the story, my dad apologized
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Twoapenny

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #103 on: February 01, 2025, 02:58:33 AM »
Thanks, Skep.  I am definitely in favour of not doing the 'deep dive' stuff.  I want to understand enough to make changes where I need to.  I do want the external circumstances of my life to change, I really want that to happen.  But with me I don't think changes in the way I think (when I make the change consciously) work; I think there's stuff buried tissue deep, that I wove into myself before I could even speak, that's affected everything I do throughout my life.

And yes, people are just muddling through as best they can.  I think my deep seated need to 'fix' (having been brought up being utterly responsible for my mother's happiness) means that I feel obliged to involve myself, and of course if you do that you want someone to get on and deal with things.  I think part of it is energy as well; if I've listened to someone else's problems I don't have the energy left to talk about myself in any way.  I don't know anyone anymore who's having a good time.  Everyone's got health problems, money problems, relationship problems.  I miss the way I used to go out with my friends, get drunk and spend four hours laughing about nothing.

I can imagine B's spent a life time of 'manning up' and has a quite rigid code that has helped him cope.  I know I've felt that way for a long time, and it does get you through tough times.  It's dropping it afterwards that's difficult (especially when he has to keep battling with the medical issues.  At least if the process was smooth, even if it wasn't that successful or satisfactory you don't have to deal with the endless frustration.  It's maddening).

But the upside of it all - I feel better today than I have done for a long time.  I noticed it yesterday, despite such a lot happening early in the morning, I got on with the day without thinking about it.  Dropped my son off, went to look for some things I'm thinking about getting - kitchen gadgets, hopefully to make cooking a bit easier for my son - and didn't have multiple narratives running in my head.  Normally I'd question myself, criticise myself, imagine people criticising me for spending money, there would be a whole circus running round in there.  But it just wasn't.  Had a good look round, didn't buy anything as I'm not 100%sure what would be best, went back to collect my son and we just came home and had dinner.  Slept better last night than I've done for about the last ten years, I'd say, and actually woke up with a teeny feeling that getting out of bed might be worth the effort.  So it feels like something bumped along.  I'm going to keep doing the self care stuff each day, I do feel like it helps.  But at the moment - feeling pretty good :)

Hopsie, do you know, I think that denial of childhood incidents is so common, I don't think I know anyone who's brought up a childhood situation and got an accepting response?  My mum's description of our childhood is like an Enid Blyton story. Funnily enough her description of her childhood is horrifyingly bland and depressing, yet her sister's version is very different.  I'm doing family history stuff and have found a whole load of relatives, siblings of my grandparents, who were alive well into my twenties - yet I'd never heard of them.  Also found I had great grandparents who only died a few years before I was born, yet no-one ever mentioned a word of them either?  I guess it is a case of people doing what they need to get by and whether it's alright seems to be half down to luck.  It's very hard not being acknowledged.

sKePTiKal

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Re: Developing A Personality
« Reply #104 on: February 01, 2025, 08:38:31 AM »
Yep, parents don't remember a lot of the things that kids take to heart or internalize or resent. Or we remember events differently. Hol & I have definitely been through this in discussion. And due to my being divorced from her Dad, she remembers things I never even knew about. This is bigger than just different points of view, we find.

In some cases, for me specifically - there has been so much water under the bridge since then - I literally do not have the brain capacity to hold everything I've ever experienced in there without prioritizing some thing things and subordinating others. And sometimes, too, those internal narratives can "color" specific memories. It's WAYYYY complex! Tons of variables.

So we keep trying to simplify where it's possible, and organize things into collective "buckets" - and that helps a lot.
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