fragments of my story

[mum]

Sleepyhead:  You write beautifully, and your early reading had loads to do with it, I'm sure.  I, too, ache for your childhood...and adolescence is hard enough even with an emotionally safe home!  Your mother was jealous of her child.  That is unnatural, not ballet!!!  My second husband was jealous of my children.  Thos people have simply never grown up (Ns!!!)  We are not married any longer.

I have a friend, who is pretty N, and pretty messed up, who graduated high school at 15, was an engineer and then an MD. A real brain.  Her mother was a trip, and now she is.  She used to read non stop and she recalls her mom walking by her, smacking her in the head as she went by and saying: "get your head out of that blasted book!"
When my friend was diagnosed with luekemia last year, her mother told her that her friends (like me) were helping her out now, but they would get sick of her soon enough and she would be on her own.  What a crappy thing to say, especially from a mother.  Wrong, just wrong.

Her mother told her that coming to see her in the hospital had put her "life on hold", so my friend needed to pony up some money  to help her parents pay their property taxes (like that's related...they are retired).  Her stories are like yours, but although she is aware she comes from such dysfunction, she is still not able to recognize anything wrong with her, or at least not enough to find out what it is ("therapy never works for me... they don't know what they are doing".)
This woman is also my "yoga" friend (don't know if you saw that on a thread last week) and having been gone a year for a bone marrow transplant, it's kind of hard to put my boundaries with her in place.  (she is "well" now).
But I do, and things are better. Told her I didn't want to go somewhere with her tonight and she accepted no for an answer.  Progress.  
Her mom, though, and your mom, forget it.  Just enjoy your life.....sounds like a good one.

[sleepyhead]

Portia: Thanks for telling me the hair thing is not small. It's so easy to fall into that old trap isn't it? "Well, it wasn't that bad, I should just let it go...Quit whining...." It was bad, and quite freaky and scary as well, seeing my mother behave like that.

I don’t have your trouble, almost the opposite, led to believe I was pretty dumb but ‘bad’ with it.

Well you seem very intelligent here! I always enjoy your posts, and often I will have answered a post, then you answer the same one, and I think "That is so much smarter than what I said!" Anyway, yeah, I had my IQ tested and it was quite high , sorry, just feels a bit weird talking about what I'm good at. But it doesn't really matter, even if my IQ was over 200 and I had won a Nobel prize for something or other, it would still never feel enough. As a kid I was always good in school, always the top of my class, but I never received any praise. Just criticism when I was not perfect, and I was always told I should study more . So when I hit my teens I had stopped enjoying doing well, I didn't study and my grades dropped a bit, dropped even further in high school, because I just never studied. My mother had killed the joy of learning. But I got some of it back at university though , when I could study completely "useless" subjects, just for my own pleasure! Still, it's tough for me; part of me want to do really well to please my mother, part of me hates being defined but what I accomplish and so refuses to do anything.

GFN: Welcome back! I agree with you: shame on unloving mothers! (By the way what does GFN stand for? If you want to tell that is. In my head it reads like "Good For Now", which sounds kind of positive, like you, and like a confirmation that all is well.)

Stormchild: Yeah and you probably didn't have to wait four weeks for it... But have you looked at the reading list? It has loads of good books on it!

Mudpuppy: Yes, I like the way that trolls are dealt with on this board, that is what finally made me feel that this is a safe place!

Go ahead and brag.

Thanks, but I still find it very hard...  Every time I want to say something that is good about myself I feel as if I'm my mother, bragging endlessly, often about things that aren't even true.

mum: Yes, I read about your "yoga friend" (or should that be yoga "friend"?). It was kind of an eye-opener toread that she said that you were being childish (or something like that), just b/c you didn't want to do what she wanted to do. When I didn't want to do what my mother told me, I was "lazy", and to this day there is a myth in my family that I'm lazy (but ask any of my old bosses, and they will tell you that's not the case).

Glad to hear that you like my writing, although I think that what I write here is always so messy, since it's so emotional, full of paretheses and subclauses, difficult to follow. Or maybe it just feels like that because that's what it's like in my head. Messy that is.

Anyway, I didn't post yesterday, busy and tired, so it felt so great to return to the board and see that I wasn't at the bottom of the page! My sister phoned me on Thursday night and I ended up telling her about the N stuff. I've been meaning to e-mail her about it, but it's a bit scary you know. She has also known that our mother (and father) were weird, ever since she was a kid. (What clever kids we were! ) She did try to tell me that she thought mother cared for me though, just trouble showing it, but I know she means well. She seemed interested in the N stuff though, thought it fitted pretty well, so I mailed her some. But now I have a question, since I want to keep this place to myself (well not to myself, that would be pretty boring, but away from her if you know what I mean), so are there any other really good sites out there? You know, or can guess, which ones I don't like...  So do you have any tips? I would much appreciate it!

[Anonymous]

Hi Sleepyhead and everyone:

By the way what does GFN stand for? If you want to tell that is.

It stands for:  Guest For Now

In my head it reads like "Good For Now", which sounds kind of positive, like you, and like a confirmation that all is well.

Well thankyou so very much for saying such a nice thing Sleepyhead.  I really appreciate it.

I think of you as a positive person too and I feel very embarassed   because in my haste to rant about the hurt caused by feeling unloved by one's mother, I forgot to say:

CONGRATULATIONS!

And all the best to you, your fiance and little-one-on-the-way!!!

That is wonderful news and I am very happy for you!!  

GFN

[Anonymous]

Sleepy,

Every time I want to say something that is good about myself I feel as if I'm my mother, bragging endlessly, often about things that aren't even true.  

I know this is easy to say but you aren't your mother. Have you told us some accomplishment that wasn't true? Have you told us something to present yourself as better than others or better than you think you are? I didn't think so.
I slip into the same thinking without even knowing it. I apologize too much out of habit, not even because I think I have done something wrong. I do it unthinkingly. I think its because subconciously I don't want to sound like an N mindlessly and endlessly boasting. GFN kindly pointed out to me I was apologizing a lot awhile back and she was right, I hadn't even realized it.
So go ahead, as they say, its not bragging if you can do it.

so are there any other really good sites out there?

The only other boards I have found are either very inactive or dominated by weirdo losers. There may be some good ones I have just missed. Maybe someone else has found one.

mudpuppy

[Anonymous]

GFN kindly pointed out to me I was apologizing a lot awhile back and she was right, I hadn't even realized it.

Hi Mudpuppy:

I thought I was pointing out that you appologize sincerely and that that is a good thing.  That N's never appologize because they never do anything wrong and therefore I see you as not having that N behaviour of not ever appologizing.  I must have said all that wrong.  Now I am sorry for not being clearer.  Truly.

I apologize too much out of habit, not even because I think I have done something wrong. I do it unthinkingly. I think its because subconciously I don't want to sound like an N mindlessly and endlessly boasting.

You don't sound like that to me and I doubt to a lot of people here.  I think I do that too sometimes.  Maybe it has something to do with dealing with so many who do behave like N's and who do as Patz wrote:  (hope it's ok to copy this here Patz.  It just hits the nail for me):

Ns will use any excuse to project on to you so you can be the "guilty" one. This way they can get out of any responsibility for their part of the relationship.

So when they do so, we feel guilty and so appologize.  This happens over and over until it becomes a habit?

Maybe breaking the habit has more to do with really looking at all of that closer?

I sure am thinking about this today because I know I've been projected upon, big time, and this is helping me to realize that I have taken more than my responsibility for my part of the relationship.  Thanks again Patz.

GFN

[Anonymous]

GFN,

I thought I was pointing out that you appologize sincerely and that that is a good thing.

As I recall you thought I was saying 'sorry' an inordinant amount. And that I was possibly unsure of my own thoughts. It was one of your 'challenging' posts. It would be too hard to find it at this point.
But in any event, for goodness sake don't apologize for it. You were right on the money. You recognized a pattern I get into and pointed it out to me. Those, for me, are the most helpful and appreciated posts of all. (((( )))))s are nice, but a little objective truth is better. Different people need and appreciate different things. I said it in some other thread; if someone had come along ten years ago and had the guts to tell me, 'your being a total sap' I would have been saved a lot of grief and money.
Thanks for telling me what a sap I am!    

I wrote,

I think its because subconciously I don't want to sound like an N mindlessly and endlessly boasting.

You wrote,

You don't sound like that to me and I doubt to a lot of people here.

I'm afraid I wasn't too clear on this one. I don't think I sound like an N. But I think I subconciously launch preemptive strikes by apologizing to prevent anyone from perceiving me as N like.

Now I am sorry for not being clearer. Truly

.
You've gotta stop saying your sorry.   Your posts are always thoughtful and you always have the grace to put your suggestions in the form of questions, which is a very gentle technique.
Thanks.

mudpup

[Anonymous]

Mudpuppy:

Is this what we are referring to?

I wrote:

I think you are tentative about what you say, and I have read your occasional appologies to others here. I've even seen you write things indicating you feel stupid....which makes me wonder if you're trying to say you feel unworthy sometimes too.

I doubt Brigid is giving you a complex, even in a sisterly way. I bet she was pointing out how strong you seem, in many ways, and what a great big brother you make!!!

From pg 3 of the thread "Voiceless Newbie Scared and Talking too much"

And you later responded:

When I apologize here it is usually because I tell a bad joke or often because I have said something that on reflection I think I shouldn't have said. I do have a tendency to say things that are insensitive sometimes, not intentionally but they're still insensitive.
Thats where the stupid thing comes from as well. I don't mean dumb as in a low IQ, I mean not thinking before speaking, or emotionally oblivious to someone else's position.

In this thread, you wrote:

As I recall you thought I was saying 'sorry' an inordinant amount.

Mudpuppy, I wasn't thinking that at all.  I was trying to point out that I do think you appologize sincerely but I didn't voice all the other thoughts I was having such as:

...That N's never appologize because they never do anything wrong and therefore I see you as not having that N behaviour of not ever appologizing...

And I wish I had.

Anyway.....no appologies required by either party, ok??

GFN

[longtire]

GFN, you go with those quotes!!!!

[Anonymous]

GFN,

Is this what we are referring to?

Yep, thats it, and that's more work than I was willing to do to dig it up.  

Anyway.....no appologies required by either party, ok??  

Spiffy!

However I stand by what I said. I appreciate posts like the one you dug up, and profit from them. I just want to make sure you don't think I was offended in any way. I want to make sure you know you can speak your mind, without any needless sugar coating. I hope I can do the same for you.

God bless you GFN, like many others here, you're   .

What a healthy feeling place this board is. There are only three places as healthy feeling for me, my home, a few friend's homes and outdoors. Every place else is infested to some extent with Ns or some other malformed creature from a Bram Stoker novel.  

mudpuppy

[sleepyhead]

GFN, thanks for the congrats, don't worry about them being late, it's appreciated anytime!

GFN & Mudpuppy: It is so good to see two people being so careful with each other's feelings, working so hard at making sure they understand and are being understood. I keep being reminded of what a great place this is.

Anyway, I had surgery on my hand today, so I'll be brief (for a change). Do anyone know of any good info-sites (not necessarily message boards), I don't want to give Dr. Grossman's to my sister since that might lead her here, and I'm a big, yellow, fluffy chicken.

Another question: There was a discussion a while ago about people using "you" and "I", and what that signified. My mother tends to refer to herself in the third person. She used to call herself "mummy" when she talked to me, no matter how many times I told her that you only do this to small children (she was doing it when I was 25! ) Since my sister had her kids she refers to herself as "grandma", sometimes even when the kids aren't there! Anyway, has anone else experienced something like this?

(Hey, I'm getting pretty good at typing with my left hand!)

[Stormchild]

Another question: There was a discussion a while ago about people using "you" and "I", and what that signified. My mother tends to refer to herself in the third person. She used to call herself "mummy" when she talked to me, no matter how many times I told her that you only do this to small children (she was doing it when I was 25! ) Since my sister had her kids she refers to herself as "grandma", sometimes even when the kids aren't there! Anyway, has anone else experienced something like this?

(Hey, I'm getting pretty good at typing with my left hand!)

Hi Sleepyhead

Sorry to learn of your surgery, glad you have gone thru it now and can begin to heal -- (((Sleepyhead)))

Oddly enough I have some "good" third person memories. And of course bad ones too, but let's do a good one first. My dad's mother loved me. Really loved me. And I stayed with her when my sibling was born, and every night when she tucked me in, she'd kiss me on the forehead and the last thing I heard was, "Nana loves you." Do you know, I can still hear her, and see the bedside lamp on the table in the little room I slept in.

One of the recurring bad ones: After Ileft 'home', when my Nmom would call, if she got voicemail she'd almost always say, "this is your motherrrrrrrr..." the rest of the message was usually uninformative, since the purpose was to manipulate me to call her. Do you know, it was more than 40 years before I realized I cannot remember her naming herself to me as anything other than 'your motherrrrrr'. Never Mom, mommy, mama, etc.

I got other good 3rd person stuff from my Edad (dad, pop, the Olde Buz-zard - second syllable rhymes with lard - yes, he wanted to be called this, he got a kick out of it, but then again I'm not telling you what his tease nicknames for me were..! We came out about even on this, and yes, thank God, I loved him). But never from my Nmom.

Well, now that I've sprayed self-disclosure of God knows what all over this post, what does the third person mode of address mean? Can you point me to the thread (so I can die of embarrassment and take down everything I just put up here)?      

[Anonymous]

Ns will use any excuse to project on to you so you can be the "guilty" one. This way they can get out of any responsibility for their part of the relationship

.


In a recent email X N projected onto me his inadequacies as a parent.  He told me that I was a terrible parent to our son and have done nothing but ignore him.  This from the man who wanted son to be aborted, was so disappointed when I didn't miscarry that he flew into a rage, left the marriage b/c he didn't want to deal with another child, and who has been completely uninvolved in son's schooling and activities.  I simply wrote back to him, "this is a text book example of projection." Not that it will do any good with a N and I'm sure he will be writing back to tell me that I am the one projecting.  

Geez!!!

Mia

[sleepyhead]

Well, now that I've sprayed self-disclosure of God knows what all over this post, what does the third person mode of address mean?  Can you point me to the thread (so I can die of embarrassment and take down everything I just put up here)?  

They never actually mentioned it, which is why I brought it up here. Maybe it means nothing. I'm glad you had good experiences with it, but hopefully these people would sometimes refer to themselves as "I"?

[Stormchild]

In a recent email X N projected onto me his inadequacies as a parent....   I simply wrote back to him, "this is a text book example of projection." Not that it will do any good with a N and I'm sure he will be writing back to tell me that I am the one projecting.

YESSSSSS!!!!!!!            

Mia, YOU ROCK!!!!!!!!!        

Let the poor dolt spew his venom. Who was it? Patz? Mud? Bunny? someone said - that's what we get antivenin from.

[Stormchild]

Well, now that I've sprayed self-disclosure of God knows what all over this post, what does the third person mode of address mean?  Can you point me to the thread (so I can die of embarrassment and take down everything I just put up here)?  

They never actually mentioned it, which is why I brought it up here. Maybe it means nothing. I'm glad you had good experiences with it, but hopefully these people would sometimes refer to themselves as "I"?

Definitely, for sure. Yep. The good 3rd person stuff was tease-talk or affection-talk, or 'hi this is so and so'.