N's and money

[Brigid]

Hi All,
Do all (or at least most) N's have issues with managing money?  I know that my N H certainly does.  As we are battling through the financial portion of the divorce, I see how pathetic he is now that he is having to manage his own finances.  I was the one to keep the ship afloat for our entire marriage.  He never paid a bill or kept any of the financial records.  He was of the mind that we could buy or do whatever we wanted and the finances would sort themselves out and he would eventually get all the loans, etc. paid off.   We never saved any money during our marriage and only got in and out of debt countless times.

Even though he makes a considerable amount of money now, he claims to be "borrowing" money from his father to help with the expenses of two households.  He decided to reduce the amount of money he was giving me to live on until the divorce is settled claiming he needs money to pay taxes.  When my attorney ran the numbers, he determined he is not even giving me half of his take home pay and I have our children living with me.

Now he is making lots more money than he did while we were together due to help from his father with whom he is in business.  But he doesn't want to share that with me because he wants to save it for his girlfriend, should she decide to actually leave her husband and be with him.  He and his N father are hiding assets and lying about income amounts (I actually saw e-mails to this effect).  He keeps hoping we will settle the divorce (it has been going on for 16 months now) before he has to file his taxes and I would see how much he actually made.  He will file extensions until October to avoid the actual filing.  He didn't file 2003 until October 2004 and amazingly he had made much more than he claimed to be making.

I am just so tired of this whole thing and tired of paying attorney fees, but I'll be damned if he'll walk away without paying me what is fair.  Thanks for letting me vent.

Brigid

[Anonymous]

Hi Brigid

My X N was the opposite of yours during our marriage.  He was very controlling of all the finances.   I would actually turn over my paycheck to him each week and would be given a frugal allowance. He paid all the bills.  We lived well below our means.  In the end it was in my favor b/c as my brother so eloquently put it, "Be thankful the cheap pr!ck saved all the money b/c now you get half of it".  From what I understand most young divorced couples have to split debt but I was able to get a good divorce settlement (money wise, stock wise, alimony, cs).   I still sit on a a good portion of the $ from the divorce.  

Anyway, it was h#ll living under constant fear of spending a penny.  Once I spent 12.00 on a pair of shoes for my daughter and X N went ballistic for an entire weekend.  

He and his N father are hiding assets and lying about income amounts (I actually saw e-mails to this effect).

If this is the case then it would be worth getting a forensic accountant involved from the get go.  This will be the next step I will be taking with X N as he is self-employed and I know he is hiding assests as well.  It's costly now but I think it will be worth it in the long run.  There is always the risk that it will turn up nothing but if you have an idea where to look for $$ then the odds would be more in your favor.  I'm sure your X would freak just over the idea that someone was going to tear through his records.  Have you discussed this option with your lawyer?

The attorney fees do suck.  However, while you have one engaged do as much as possible to wrap it all up now rather than later.  Don't wait like I did.

Best of luck.  Feel free to PM me if you ever have questions about the divorce settlement process.  I can tell you what went on in my case.

Mia

[Anonymous]

I JUST posted a comment about how my N handled some money. Check it out in "Is he a narcissist?' I could add so much more........

[bunny]

Brigid,

I love Mia's idea of the forensic accountant. Then let them be as sociopathic as they want, but they won't get away with it.


bunny

[Anonymous]

Hi Brigid:

Sorry for all the torment this jerk is giving you about money.    Been there.  Done that.  Not fun stuff.    Stick to your guns and what's afforded to you by law.  For your kids.  They deserve a fair shake, even if jerko doesn't think so.     This will eventually end.  I wish I could offer some better comfort.  

As to the Nish and their money issues......from what I have seen....yep.
They got bigggggggg issues.

Greedy, insatiable desire for money
Selfish = cheap = unwilling to share
Liar = hide money, assets
or cry about not having enough money,
when the truth is.....they are hiding it.
Or brag about wealth/throw money around
that they do not have=to try to look impressive.
Steal whenever possible
Run from responsibility in money matters
Devise crooked scemes to get more money
Spend irresponsibly = impulse buying = wasteful
Jealous of others with more than them or
who put money to better use.
Only gives to get something back = turns up
nose/snubs gifts as inadequate.
Hords money for self/ own needs come first
Dollar signs on the brain/talks and talks about money.
Always looking for a deal = often bargains but unfairly.
Never hesitates to ask what you paid but won't reveal
the price /or lies/ about what they paid.
Tries to look like a big shot....expensive clothes, car,
will only eat at "certain" restaurants, or live in specific
areas = everybody/every where else is scummy.
No lost sleep about debt/ borrows but doesn't repay.

I'm sure I've left out a bunch but that's it for now.

((((((Brigid))))))

GFN

[Brigid]

Mia & Bunny,

If this is the case then it would be worth getting a forensic accountant involved from the get go. This will be the next step I will be taking with X N as he is self-employed and I know he is hiding assests as well.

My attorney has had one involved for over a year now.  He has spent countless hours with the controller of my H's firm trying to get all the necessary info.  My H is also self-employed so it is easy to hide things, especially when you have a very wealthy father to help you.  I do have some advantage as I was privey to much of the way their office was set up and how the distribution of commissions was handled, so I do know where they are hiding the income, but I don't know if we'll be able to flush it out.

My main objective in all of this is to make sure the kids and I are taken care of for the future.  He has no sense of obligation to us and only wants to move on and start his life with his (still married) slut.  He claims to want this over with so he better bite the bullet, give me what is fair and I will happily walk away.  

Thanks for the support.

Brigid

[longtire]

((((Brigid))))  ((((GFN))))

I can relate to a lot of this.  My wife is big on the spending and borrowing side of things, but only reluctantly works on the earning and not at all on the saving part.  Even though we are not talking to each other right now, the only thing she will come to talk to me about is money and how she can get more and how she can make sure that I don't spend too much of "hers."  One her favorite quotes when we were dating was, "What's mine is mine and what's yours is mine!"  She wasn't kidding!  More than anything else that quote has taught me to listen when people tell you who they are.

I have worked hard for many years and had good income.  Unfortunately, the outgo was higher and am still trying to pay off the remaining debt.  Instead of laying the foundations for retirement, I'm just trying to get back to break even.  Sorry if that's whiney, I realize that a lot of people are even worse off than me.  But, I am trying acknowledge my feelings and speak them out instead of holding this crap in.

[Anonymous]

Hiya Longtire,

Ofcourse you're not whiney!!!  Not imo.  You work hard for years and years, the other person doesn't.......and spends all and above what you've worked for.......and now, when... as you say....you would be saving for retirement....you're FORCED to repay debt, that should never have been accumulated in the first place!!!

Who wouldn't be ticked to the brink!!!  

I want to cut up her credit cards myself, and I don't even know the woman!!

Marriage is supposed to be team work.......not a shopping spree for one person!
Giving is supposed to be shared......not one sided!
Money is supposed to be for everyone.......not just your spouse!!!

Too bad she is so selfish/greedy/hungry that she can only see dollar signs!!  Sorry you've had to put up with it for so long.

Venting for you, I guess, Longtire.  Or was that for me???  I don't even care!!   It's not fair that the Nish ..can cause every type of suffering imaginable (and profit by it....not just by sucking emotions but by eating up assets/financial stability/future possible comforts that everyone in the family might have enjoyed!!!!)

It's not fair!!  It's not fair!  It's not fair!!!  (I always related to Herman Munster for those words!!! ) and his jumping up and down, while saying it!! (heehee).

So ......the thing is......Longtire....you may end up being so much better off financially, once you're away from her, you won't believe it.
Half the debt will be hers (leaving you only half of what you might otherwise have been responsible).
Something to look forward to.

One thing I did.......don't know if this is legal, or of use where you are....I wrote letters to all creditors of my X stating:

-the marriage was dissolving and I would no longer be responsible for any purchases or debt accumulated from this date forward.
-that I wanted my name removed from any documentation/current records please, and a note made that I am no longer using or responsible for these accounts.
-that I was destroying my card immediately and would no longer be using it (included a piece of it, with the letters).
-that any future purchases/debt is the sole responsibility of my X.

Sent 'em all by registered mail and kept copies/proof of registration.

I am trying acknowledge my feelings and speak them out instead of holding this crap in.

Keep doing that Longtire.  That way the cess pool will become a warm spring!!

GFN

PS:

Brigid:  

He claims to want this over with so he better bite the bullet, give me what is fair and I will happily walk away.

Stick with this attitude.  Good for you!!  SOMEONE has to be responsible for caring for the children.  You're it!! (which I'm sure you are so glad).

I guess that's something to be glad about....that he isn't trying to take them from you.  He just wants to take their financial welfare away.  Nice guy!!!  NOT!!!

 

Hope things work out for you and the kids, Brigid!!  Hope he gets caught in his own web!!!

[Brigid]

Longtire,
I agree with what GFN has said and the action she took.  I did the same thing when we sold the house last summer (another reason you may want to consider doing that).  We had built a fair amount of equity in our home (the only way we could ever invest money).  With that equity, all debts were retired and all financial obligations separated.  I am no longer responsible for his financial irresponsibility and that is really comforting.  I carry no debt at all except for my mortgage and if it weren't for attorney fees, would be quite comfortable.

I am in sort of the opposite situation as you in that I lived with my H for 22 years living hand to mouth (largely because he couldn't control his spending) and now that he is making a sizable income, he wants to walk away and spend it on someone new, since that is really the only thing he has to attract a new relationship.  I refuse to make that easy for him.

I hope you are beginning to come to some conclusions about your situation and planning to take action to give yourself some hope for the future.  It really does feel like the right thing eventually.  

(((Longtire))))

Brigid

[longtire]

Thank you for the hugs GFN and Brigid.  In some ways its easier for me to talk about and be upset about the money problems.  Maybe because it ISN'T nearly as important to me as the lack of love and intimacy.

It's not fair!! It's not fair! It's not fair!!! (I always related to Herman Munster for those words!!! ) and his jumping up and down, while saying it!! (heehee).

   This is me too.  I so want the fair police to come in and set my wife right!