Becoming Aware

[Debs]

I am 50 this birthday.  Single.  Friends say they cannot understand why.  I could not either but finding sites like this and others I am beginning to understand why.
I recently saw a guy who could call me and chat for hours but when with him I felt as if he was not there.  It was strange.  We finished and tried to remain friends.  His behaviour patterns (not violent) led me to check out details about folk with N traits - it was like a light bulb going on.  However, I still found it difficult to keep away even though the particular site told me how to survive and why!  Like a moth to a flame.  
Its uncanny that throughout my life I have been drawn to men who have absent mothers for one reason or another.  The relationships always end in tears.  
My father lost his mother and eldest sister during childhood too.  
He loved my mother dearly and she died in my twenties.  Her tombstone says loving wife of ...... - no mention of her two children.  He finally got her to himself.  I always felt as if I was in the way.  
When I left home and joined the Services my pal said I have never met anyone as controlled by their Mother as you.  
I can remember being at a family party and my auntie asking if anyone wanted some more cake.  I piped up - 'Yes please.  I would like some battenburg'.  All I can remember is jumping up towards the table and my Mum's voice saying sharply 'No, you have had enough'.  I felt so embarrassed and I just withered.  
Now, if I am with strong willed folk I take a back seat and people please. My voice fades into silence and I can never be heard.  I then jump in at the most inappropriate points cutting across folk and seeming rude.  
All my interests had to be those of my parents.  
I now find myself sounding off at folk if they do not acknowledge me as an individual.  I have found myself moving away from certain long term friends and one in particular because they seemed to think that I could give up my life to support them in theirs - just as if I had no identity and could defer to them.
I need to learn how to stop sounding off - its like the frustrated child within wanting to stand up and be counted and valued for herself and not what those who I allow to treat me in this way.  
Any tips?
This website and the messages within are wonderful.  The support folk give to each other is really great.  I am glad I found it.
Debs

[Portia]

Welcome Debs . I can identify with much that you’ve said. I was an only child who felt like an intruder in the house, in the way. I’m also in England.

I’m so sorry about your mother, both about her early death and the way she controlled you. Did you ever feel loved as a child?

I need to learn how to stop sounding off

Your post above sounded emotionally-controlled and concise to me. It didn’t sound like sounding off. Maybe you need to sound off a little more before you try and stop doing it (if you need to stop?)

There is nothing wrong or bad about stating your opinions. In fact, it’s good to do it, so people know who you are and what you think. I guess it’s how you do it? And the reasons. When I blurt out stuff in conversation out of irritation (because I’m being ignored), I can sound angry and out of control. I’m learning how to state my case and be listened to. This is good place for learning and testing out your new voice! Hope you post some more about your childhood. Have you talked about it much, in counselling or therapy or with friends?

[Brigid]

Debs,
Welcome to this site.  Many people here can relate to the negative adult behaviors we demonstrate now based on the n parents who raised us.

Have you been in therapy to help you work through these issues?  IMO the best way to put those relationships in their proper perspective, heal from the damage and find our own voices.

I am 54, married two N husbands and with the help of a good therapist, am understanding this and learning how to prevent it from happening again.

Others here will have other good suggestions.  Good luck.

Brigid

[Portia]

Debs, hope you don’t mind but I’ve taken this from your other post (I went and searched out your other post):

Just sent an email to an ex - apologising to him for the way I went at him because of the way he treated me (nothing like I am reading on this site though).
I found myself actually feeling worse because I needed some acknowledgment of my apology rather than feeling sad about finishing our relationship.
How sad is that?

We all need acknowledgment of apologies. That’s how it works: I hurt you, you say ouch, I apologise, you say ‘apology accepted’ and we understand each other.

Some people are incapable of making a real apology. They also cannot accept an apology and then give something back. They won’t give back. When that happens, we feel like sh*t because we’ve reached out, and they’ve basically snubbed us, taken the superior higher ground above us – making us feel worse than we did.

It’s their problem, not yours or mine. I could say a lot more on this but I’ll stop for now. Have you read any books on narcissism?
Cheers, P

[Anonymous]

I can remember being at a family party and my auntie asking if anyone wanted some more cake.  I piped up - 'Yes please.  I would like some battenburg'.  All I can remember is jumping up towards the table and my Mum's voice saying sharply 'No, you have had enough'.  I felt so embarrassed and I just withered.

Wow. I'm the auntie who offers goodies and fun to her nephew. When he accepts my invitation, his grandmother and mother harshly scold him and shout "NO!" He withers visibly. They seem satisfied at his deflation. I quickly say, "I told him he could have/do it." They: "Well, he can't." Last time I took him aside and whispered to him, "They're wrong." And he continued doing the thing they didn't like.  Sorry to go off on my own tangent. Maybe I'm like you, sounding off uninvited.  

bunny

[Anonymous]

About piping up when ignored: I do it. I am even aware when I'm doing it. I start getting inappropriately loud, interrupt people, say things out of context, and people ironically continue to ignore me because I'm acting wierd. It's like a train wreck. I feel sooo embarrassed.

What do to about it: I can't totally stop this behavior so I just try to minimize it. One way is to exit situations where I feel ignored. Instead of desperately trying to get attention, I force myself to walk out of the room. I also try to get appropriate attention at other times so I don't feel so deprived when people are ignoring me. I think my meds help a lot.

bunny

[mum as guest]

Debs: I didn't have parents like that, but had a few husbands who stomped on my spirit and tried to keep me silent.  Now my children's father does that to them (and he hired help...his wife!).
I think that we ALL struggle with relationships, when to speak up, how to speak up, how not to sound rash while we still voice opinion.  I think it is tough for everyone and tougher still with N baggage.
That you are looking hard at your pain is huge.  A huge step toward healing.  You are becoming aware.  It;s not easy, but that is why N's never change, because as much pain as they cause.....they are deep down in such enormous pain that they can't even bear to think of it...so they don't.  And they lash out at us.  And it is truly evil.
But on the bright side: you are healing and trying and THAT will reap enormous rewards.
Bunny: I am the indulgent "auntie" but for my own kids as well, who sees what my ex does to them (they have to ask permission to eat anything at his house....teenagers mind you).. and then I say: YOU get to choose to eat another piece of cake.  And if they have a stomachache later...THEY decide not to overindulge next time, not me.  It's thier life/thier stomache/thier school experience/thier vacation....name it, they aren't my belongings, they are people I love and cherish. (wow, talk about tangents).

[Debs]

Thanks for the responses!  Already!  
I really appreciated how folk could identify with what I was saying.
I may sound emotionally controlled but when I sound off - errr, it goes out of the window and I just list everything, having noted lots over the time.  Thing is I am really enthusiastic and supportive of folk but its when I just find it is taken for granted and little response comes back for me about me - then wham!  Never used to be that way.  I would just do and do being there for folk.
Last month I laid into a pal who just lets everyone in this particular group of pals make the effort socially.  I had returned to the area, supporting her because of things that had gone on in her childhood but got really fed up with it.  I realise now that she wastes no time in telling folk about childhood issues.  I'm having a party and thought I cannot invite her into my home feeling this way and told her so.  
She could not see why I was so hurt by her lack of effort and how she would pitch up contributing little when it suited.  She even said she wished I had said nothing about it.  
Again, I now have my doubts as to whether I should have said what I did. Because of her claiming innocence I just through the book at her.  This happened about 18 months ago too.  My best friend deciding I could give up a job I love to go into business with her, spoken like some queen bee.  It reminded me of my Mum and I went ballistic!  She sounded really nasty and talked to me as if I was dirt being derisive because of my single status.  Twisting things I had said into something quite different.  We have exchanged cards and words.  She comes forward but when I respond to sort an arrangement to meet she backs off.  Its as if she has to look good but when i actually try to help sort it - chips being down - she does'nt want to.  Not sure that I do too.  I end up feeling totally overwhelmed by her and behaving like the child with my Mum.  
Apology - Cheers P!  Never thought of it like that.  I suspect sending an email was not a good move because it can be toyed with like a cat and mouse game.  
B - your nephew - good on you!  I wish my auntie had done that for me.  No you were not butting in - stuff like that helps.  
I know I have gone on a bit but its a bit of a release and all this stuff is tumbling out to folk I have never met but feel that we understand.  
The daft thing is everyone thinks I am so together.  In lots of ways I am.  Yes, did think of seeing a counsellor - looking to undertake training myself, so need to sort it out.  
Have a good weekend everyone
Debs

[Portia]

Debs, you sound like you are such a good friend! It’s just that your friends aren’t good to you. Have they heard of reciprocal relationships? It doesn’t sound like it!

Wonder if you’ve seen this website: I found it quite useful: http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/six.html

Thanks for your reply! Have a good weekend, take care P

[Anonymous]

HI Debs.  Welcome!!

I don't have N parents but I was married to a N for seven years and still have to deal with him b/c of the children we have together.  He was a tyrant and a full fledged bully (still is).  I learned to keep my mouth shut and was always walking on eggshells as to not set him off.  I was an adult and had a very difficult time coping so I can't imagine what it was like for you and others here who grew up with N parents.  Because of my children I get to see how a N parent operates and to say the least it ain't pretty.

I'm sorry that you didn't have a happy childhood.  I hope and pray that you will find true happiness as an adult.  

I'm glad that you have found this site and are comfortable to share your story with us.  

Best wishes.
Mia

[bunny]

I may sound emotionally controlled but when I sound off - errr, it goes out of the window and I just list everything, having noted lots over the time.

Yeah, for practical reasons it's good to learn how to manage feelings before they build up. Therapy can help you with that. It's a learned skill. It's a sign of progress to stand up for yourself. The next step is to do it with some 'gamesmanship' so you'll come out on top and like how you handled it.

I realise now that she wastes no time in telling folk about childhood issues.  I'm having a party and thought I cannot invite her into my home feeling this way and told her so.  
She could not see why I was so hurt by her lack of effort and how she would pitch up contributing little when it suited.  She even said she wished I had said nothing about it.

I would probably have simply not invited her and said nothing about it. But if she found it out and asked me, I'd just say, "well I didn't invite everyone." If she persisted, I would finally say, "I was uncomfortable the last time when you talked about XXX". If she got angry, I could then say: "Well you kept asking me and I told you." I would be very firm, give her a look, and hopefully she would shut up. See- gamesmanship.

My best friend deciding I could give up a job I love to go into business with her, spoken like some queen bee.  It reminded me of my Mum and I went ballistic!

Two things: it's always wise not to respond to people when they remind you of your parents. Take some time to plan a response to them so it's not a "kneejerk reaction." The kneejerk reactions always backfire and you get attacked, and it's even worse. Here's how I'd handle this dominatrix: I would simply say, "No." If she kept at me, I'd say, "I don't want to and that's my decision." "What part of no don't you understand?" If she felt like attacking me from a different angle I would say, "Okay, this conversation is over." And I would end it no matter what. The only thing she will understand is firm limit-setting.

I hope some of this makes sense. You can see it's a learned skill that takes practice.

bunny