Author Topic: Second cousin  (Read 2668 times)

October

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Second cousin
« on: June 01, 2005, 10:07:39 AM »
I have a second cousin who is 22, and at University.  We went to visit her the other day, and it was a disaster from start to finish.  Except the 'disaster' was contained within me for much of the visit and didn't show, so I dare say I ought to say it was overtly amicable, but contained a lot of attempted covert manipulation and aggression, until the end, when it stopped being amicable because I said I wasn't having any more.   :lol:

We met at the Cathedral near her student flat, and the first thing she said was; 'This is my Cathedral'.  Not a good start!!!!!  A warning bell sounded in my head straight away.  :lol: Not yet exhausted with listening to her, I was able to deal with this one easily enough, by saying that lots of people love the Cathedral, and feel as if it belongs to them in a special way.  I cited my dad as one example.  She seemed surprised to hear that.   :lol:

She went on to describe how she organises events there, and therefore the Cathedral belongs to her.  (She helped on a committee for one youth event, attended by about 300 young people, recently.  Clearly an achievement to be proud of, but not tantamount to her being 'the' organiser, as she described herself, or owning the Cathedral.)

Cousin is training to be a Youth Worker.  I took C with me, and in the 2 or 3 hours we were together, cousin did not address C at all, or ask her anything about her schooling, health or life.  Struck me that her interest is not in young people; her only interest is in herself and her own stardom.  C said she found her arrogant and rude, and said she was ignored all day.

On the other hand, I looked at her course work, discussed her dissertation, admired her rooms and college; did all those things that you do when visiting a student at college.  I listened politely to all her arrogant comments about how wonderful she is, and bit my tongue a hundred times.   :?   Like when she told us we should be honoured because she was missing brunch in the college canteen in order to have lunch with us.  I just smiled politely. :)

I (and others in the family) have always thought this cousin to be rather pushy, always wanting the limelight from when she was small - she used to stand in the middle of the room singing songs, and everyone would clap and tell her how wonderful she was, and she believed it.   :oops:

Anyway, she is now an evangelical, and because I am not, she enjoys 'discussing' religion with me, in the form of firing accusatory questions at me one after another.  It feels as if she is trying to find out where I am heretical, so that she can feel superior to me.  So I have to remain ultra orthodox, without compromising any of my beliefs.  Very hard work, and not what I wanted to do on a social visit.

I always feel very defensive, and reluctant to engage in these discussions, because I know they will end up badly if I am not careful.  Anyway, I was not careful enough the other day, when out of nowhere she started doing this over lunch in a bar.  I tried for some time to close the topic, and move onto something less contentious, but she kept on, like a dog at a bone.  Eventually she accused me of patronising her (when in fact I was being sincere - I said I admired her enthusiasm and her energy), and it ended with me telling her rather harshly that I did not want to talk to her any more, and she ran away in tears.  I must admit, that my feelings at that point were of intense relief.  Maybe not very Christian, but I thought, good, she's gone.  Serves her right!!

Since then, as you may imagine, I have told nobody.  She has told her mother, and enlisted her sympathy, and she has spoken several times to her nana, my aunt, who thinks she is perfect and that I am to blame.  I don't blame her for that at all; she is elderly and frail.  I do resent cousin using people like this to get back at me, and at her adopting the victim status in this, when she was definitely aggressive in her questions and attitude.  And because we were staying with my aunt it meant a lot of listening to her complaining about how I had treated this cousin, and hearing her say over and over; 'I hope ... is all right', when I knew that of the three of us she was the least likely to be actually hurt by what happened.  In the end we came home a day early, because I couldn't stand it any longer.  I am very sorry for my aunt, but she is having her strings pulled.   :(

I told my aunt that I refuse to accept the blame, because I tried my best to avoid this situation.  Her mother has said it is 50:50 which I believe is tantamount to accepting that this girl has problems.  Which of us would allow our child to have half the blame for a situation unless we knew she probably deserved more than half?   :lol:  I would not admit any liability at all in my daughter unless I thought she were totally to blame, and then I might admit half.  Same thing.  That is what mothers do.   8)

Meanwhile, I am not engaging any more in post mortem behaviour within my family.  But trying to be objective, I think this is another of those guilt ridden successes.  I maintained a boundary, maybe not terribly adroitly, but I maintained it, and prevented her trampling all over me for the sake of being polite.  And as one of the first times I have achieved this within my family, even though only extended family rather than close, that is a good thing.  Another first is that this cousin heard the truth about herself possibly for the first time ever.  Not the whole truth - I am not that unkind - just enough to show that she is not Queen of the Universe.   :lol:

Apart from that, the holiday was lovely.  We visited Hadrians Wall inter alia, and the countryside was really beautiful.  But it is soooooo wonderful to be home again.   :lol:

Best part of coming home is that C has contacted 2 of her friends from junior school who she has not seen for almost a year, and has arranged to meet them this week for a day out.  I have been trying to persuade her to do this for months, and am really pleased that being away from home made the difference, and made her miss them enough to make the calls.  That is a really positive step forward, imo.   :D

Anonymous

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Second cousin
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2005, 10:52:23 AM »
Hi October:

Your cousin sounds so full of herself eh?  Good for you for drawing that boundary line and maintaining it, in the end!  That's not easy, especially when all you really want to do is have a nice visit and be pleasant (which I bet is all you wanted to do in the first place?).  Ofcourse, that is nearly impossible with such people isn't it?

Sorry your aunt was conned.  It must have been very uncomfortable for you after that.  No wonder you came home early.  

Glad the rest of the trip was nice/enjoyable.  I hope you have many more lovely, more peaceful/pleasant trips in future.  Glad also to hear about your daughter calling her friends!   That is a really positive end to the whole thing isn't it?  So glad to hear it! :D

GFN

bunny

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Second cousin
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2005, 02:18:00 PM »
October,

First, good work dealing with this aggravating young woman. If I'm going to meet a difficult, obnoxious person, I plan ahead how long I will spend with this person, and how I will get away from them after this amount of time. I'm thinking you spent an inordinate amount of time with this immature girl. Things were bound to deteriorate due to the excessive exposure to each other. Know what I mean? I would probably have spent no more than an hour with this irritating person. After that, I couldn't guarantee what would happen! :-)

bunny

October

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Second cousin
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2005, 02:31:51 PM »
Quote from: bunny


First, good work dealing with this aggravating young woman.  I would probably have spent no more than an hour with this irritating person. After that, I couldn't guarantee what would happen! :-)

bunny


You are absolutely right, Bunny.  Unfortunately I didn't make the plans - my aunt set it all up for us, and I just went along with it all, in the hope that it would be the easiest and quietest way through.  But as you say, having lunch after already spending over an hour together was probably not the best idea.

I generally see this cousin once a year at her mothers at Christmas, and she pretty well always tries this attack then too.  But because there are lots of people around, I can normally escape into another room or another conversation.  This time there was nowhere to escape to!   :lol:

However, I think she will not be so quick to try again.   :?

October

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Second cousin
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2005, 02:36:23 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous

Your cousin sounds so full of herself eh?  Good for you for drawing that boundary line and maintaining it, in the end!  That's not easy, especially when all you really want to do is have a nice visit and be pleasant (which I bet is all you wanted to do in the first place?).  

Glad also to hear about your daughter calling her friends!   That is a really positive end to the whole thing isn't it?  So glad to hear it! :D



You're right, GFN.  I just wanted a social visit, with nice pleasant polite conversation.  Which I will have tomorrow  :D  because another cousin is visiting, who I get on with really really well.  She is my goddaughter, and we can spend all day together and not fall out.  <Crosses fingers just in case!!>

What I need to learn to do, though, is to set the boundaries more clearly or assertively before I reach the crisis point, if anyone understands that.  I kind of allow and allow but warn too politely and allow and carry on being polite but ignored and then I stop.  I need to learn how to allow and then warn that my tolerance is going, in a way that gets heard, without just stopping dead.  It is a real failing in me that the warnings which I give are  not listened to or not heard.  Maybe because I have not followed them through enough in the past.  Maybe it is about enforcing limits.  Not sure.

Hmm.  Something to think about.   :?

Anonymous

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Second cousin
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2005, 04:20:05 PM »
Quote from: October
What I need to learn to do, though, is to set the boundaries more clearly or assertively before I reach the crisis point, if anyone understands that.


I understand and agree.


Quote
I kind of allow and allow but warn too politely and allow and carry on being polite but ignored and then I stop.  I need to learn how to allow and then warn that my tolerance is going, in a way that gets heard, without just stopping dead.  It is a real failing in me that the warnings which I give are  not listened to or not heard.  Maybe because I have not followed them through enough in the past.  Maybe it is about enforcing limits.  Not sure.


You're definitely onto something. My idea is to give ONE warning. People generally aren't aware of being warned in the first place. But when a consequence occurs, they realize that they had been warned. Then they learn for next time. I have to take care of myself and they will learn that I will.

bunny

October

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Second cousin
« Reply #6 on: June 01, 2005, 04:28:30 PM »
Quote from: Anonymous


You're definitely onto something. My idea is to give ONE warning. People generally aren't aware of being warned in the first place. But when a consequence occurs, they realize that they had been warned. Then they learn for next time. I have to take care of myself and they will learn that I will.

bunny


I am going to try this.  I will think to myself, something is wrong, so that calls for a warning, but there must only be one warning, so better make it loud and clear.  Then count to ten.  Then state the warning, plus what will happen if it is not heeded.  Then count to ten again.

Hmm.  Must practice this one.  I can already do it with C, because she is used to respecting me, which others are not, particularly.   :oops:  

One warning.  I can do that.  I am sure there is a problem having several, because neither 'they' nor 'I' know when the line is stepped over.  Also, both C and I tend to smile when we are feeling grim.  Must try not to smile next time. :?  :cry:  :wink:  :x  <Practising serious faces>   :lol:

Thanks, Bunny.  ((((Hugs))))

Portia

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Second cousin
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2005, 06:57:30 AM »
Welcome back October, things are sent to try us? Or in this case 22 year old miss perfects! About warnings and so on, this is what I thought reading you:

Quote
Like when she told us we should be honoured because she was missing brunch in the college canteen in order to have lunch with us. I just smiled politely.

How about laughing out loud instead? Could you do that? I might. Seriously! :D  It such a daft thing to say. Then I might say, “oh please don’t do that, we’ll have lunch alone without you, that’ll be fine with us” smiling.

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she enjoys 'discussing' religion with me, in the form of firing accusatory questions at me one after another

To make a warning here, how about sighing and looking bored? (Was this conversation boring by the way?)

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I am not engaging any more in post mortem behaviour within my family.
Excellent! This sounds like a good move.

Quote
Apart from that, the holiday was lovely. We visited Hadrians Wall inter alia, and the countryside was really beautiful.
I’m glad to hear this and it’s good news about C and her friends too.

While you’re practising serious faces, try this one too –  :|  neutral bordering on bored. If that fails, you can always pretend to fall asleep??!

October

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Second cousin
« Reply #8 on: June 02, 2005, 11:44:29 AM »
Quote from: Portia


While you’re practising serious faces, try this one too –  :|  neutral bordering on bored. If that fails, you can always pretend to fall asleep??!


Boring sounds good!!!  Just had first cousin visiting - lovely time, lunch here included, and then C spent time teaching her how to make scoubies, which was very funny.  (Anyone who doesn't know what scoubies are, they are the latest craze here for youngsters, sort of weaving bits of plastic into strings.  Everyone is doing it, says C.)  

http://scoubiland.com/  More info on scoubis.

Rather restores my faith in myself not to fall out with everyone I meet.   :lol:

Neutral, almost falling asleep sounds worth practising, P!!!   :)

sleepyhead

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Second cousin
« Reply #9 on: June 02, 2005, 05:46:39 PM »
October, your second cousin sounds sooo N! Sorry you had to spend so much time with her... :(  Glad you had a good time with your cousin!  :D  After I read your post my MIL phoned and asked me to invite my mother over to their place on saturday... The thing is we're going to my mother's on friday... I fraked for a while, talked it over with f and in the end we decided on the truth: I can't really cope with her two days in a row. I let f tell MIL (because I'm a coward or because she is his mother?), anyway she knows that me and my mother are not the best of friends. She was cool with it though. Why are we so often afraid to be honest about these things? Well, I guess I know why...

I agree with bunny that you are really on to something with giving warnings and reinforcing them... I am also really bad at this, protest feebly until I'm pushed too far, and then I get really angry... Something to work on.

Take care and ignore that second cousin! She doesn't deserve your time.
Rip it to shreds and let it go - Garbage

October

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Second cousin
« Reply #10 on: June 03, 2005, 11:19:25 AM »
Quote from: sleepyhead
October, your second cousin sounds sooo N! Sorry you had to spend so much time with her... :(


You are right.  There is a lot of N stuff there, and a lot of passive aggression too.  I am reluctant to say N before each of my family members because people might think I see Ns everywhere, but there is certainly a lot of strange behaviour in just about everyone.  One or two shining examples, but mostly Weird.   :lol:  

I'm glad I am not the only one who has trouble with warnings and boundaries and such.  Looks like we can work on these together.   :lol: I agree with you about limiting contact too.  Once in a while my brothers organise big family holidays together, and I always say thanks but no thanks, and then end up going anyway.   :?   One or two hours is my comfortable limit with my Weird family members.   :lol:  :lol:  :lol:

The others, like M yesterday, I can spend endless time with and not feel any bad effects.   :lol: