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I am in need of divorce tips, suggestions, etc.. Please.

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Acappella:
Update from last night when I posted this....I only intended to ask for (and am still seeking) logistical kinds of feedback...others who had protected themselves in a divorce or hadn't and are wiser now for it. I vented a lot and so didn't stay focused on logistics.  Of course, sometimes the best feedback is what I didn't ask for.  I am trying to focus, in between ventings, on working to have a plan..preparing irrespective of what I do or don't do ultimately.  There is no way I will stay with the way this relationship is now.  Just wanted to clarify up front here.  
P.S. To those folks who responded ...your responses here are such a life preserver.  I still feel trapped though not as much and I don't feel so alone in the world.  THANK YOU.  

Last nights post:
I am in my bedroom with the door locked and closed.  Mr. N is in full lash out mode.  Good news is I aint crying my soul dry over him nor am I playing his hate game as I have in the past.

I believe he is acting out in part cause he senses I am getting stronger and he is scared I am going to leave him. He is so right about my leaving. If only he'd admit not wanting me to go at least he would be human. If he would only admit that beneath the creulty is fear or sadness.  He won't. I used to cry and plead with him to stop and I asked him not leave! I can barely believe now that I did that.  He has never said with any emotion that he needs me, wants me.  Perhaps after a big fight once a long time ago?  Mixed up mixed messages.

I am so tired and I've got to get busy. I've got to start researching divorce options.  I haven't been divorced before.  We have moved 3 times in four years and he messed up my credit.  I didn't give him the opportunity to mess with my credit the first year and a half we were together.  Then I was working and he lost his job and he paid bills on time for a few months (i double checked ahead of the due date) and just when I thought he had begun to enjoy paying things on time vs the stress of getting late fees etc. he messed up my credit and just didn't pay bills and hid the evidence during the move to this city where he got a new job.  His sister is a lawyer who has rescued him from his mess ups with the irs and getting his car repossessed even though he had the money to pay. His mom had signed for the loan. He ruined her perfect credit.    She is 65 and still working to pay for her medications.  I didn't know that until recently.  He was in therapy for a while and I saw improvements.  Then we moved here and he hasn't started counseling again.  We used my good credit (40 years I kept it excellent).   So we are in debt without a home and just one used car between us.  He got his repossessed though he makes a good salary, more than twice what I ever have.  I had paid my car off and then sold it to move to this city.  

I have left men who treated me far worse and yet I am finding it harder than ever to leave.  I don't know what it is exactly.  I was so sad about what we could have given each other and how we could have grown together.  I was sad about not having the shared experience of a family, children etc.  I really understand a lot about this man I respect and like some of his qualities and I believe I understand much of the pain that led to his being so messed up (pain he won't go near).  I wanted to be a good team mate and stick through the tough times with him.  He works hard at his career and when he lost his job I stood by him and let him know that although I was scared I also saw it as an opportunity for him to look for his true self.  He did get a better job, more real environment.  I don't think while living with a woman he will heal anyway though.  My being here is in the way of both of our potentials to heal and grow.  My staying is mostly about feeling exhausted and my resources being depleted.  When I met him I was recovering from melanoma which I'd gone through alone and oddly enough I feel more tired now than I ever did then.

Anyway, if any of you have tips you can offer about how to go about protecting one's self (what is left of myself) during a divorce I'd appreciate your input. (I am not asking feedback be limited to that though or even limited to just feedback.) I am considering bankruptcy though I've avoided that for 41 years so I hate to go that route. With his salary and both of us working perhaps we could have paid off the debt.  I did a spread sheet before he lost his job and could see a light at the end of the tunnel.  Now, the move was expensive and my credit messed up and I have been unemployed for months ...we are in more debt.  I have no idea how this all works in a divorce. I've learned most everything the hard way and alone.  I am learning to reach out and take protective precautions.  I wish I'd found this site a few years ago.  

Thanks all.  P.S. We have no children.  That is good and I am so sad about not having the shared experience of a family.

seeker:
Hey there Acappella,

I hope things have quieted down since you wrote this post and that you are safe.  My heart goes out to you.

Let me say right off the bat, I've never been divorced either.  But I wanted to reach out to you right now.  Therefore, this is all "if I were in Acappella's shoes, what would I do?" kind of thinking.  Take it with a grain of salt.  You are really smart to plan before heading straight to divorce court. [Big Hug.]

First, take a deep breath.  I'm not being facetious.  You are in the heat of battle and are probably feeling overwhelmed with the constant up and down chaos.  And in the spirit of stabilizing your head, go somewhere safe and quiet where you won't be disturbed.  I often go to the park or library just for some downtime from family living.  Books are my best friends, so I'm at the library a lot   :wink:

I would then grab the yellow pages and look up women's shelters, women's services, etc, not necessarily to move out (but if you are not safe, please consider it!!), but to look into options and find out about resources.  I would look for people who want to help without pushing their agenda on me.  That is, some well-meaning folks might automatically think you want divorce right now, move out right now, etc.  while I read some ambivalence in your note.  

As I talk to people, I will try to stay attuned to my feelings and reactions to what they advise me to do.  If I have a strong gut feeling like "NO, I don't want to do that" or "YES, I really need to think about that" or "I don't know if that will work" listen to those feelings.  Intuition is really a valid guide.  If the advice fits, you will feel it.  (I have a different situation in my life which requires me to "shop" for similar services and I've learned who to accept on the "team" and who to cut.)  You will get advice, and it's your responsibility to make decisions that you will live with.  (I don't mean to harsh here...just want to emphasize that you are in the driver's seat).  

Perhaps through your previous journeys, you are aware that some people get a little bent when you don't take their advice.  I wish more people (esp. friends, not nec. professionals) would understand that advice is information to be sorted through our own filters, and that our decisions are based on what will work for us, not a reflection on the "correctness" of their decisions.  One size doesn't fit all.  I also point this out, because you are probably in a fragile, sensitive state right now.  It might be helpful to say to folks who are directive in their advice, "you know, just the fact that you are willing to share your experience and insight is so valuable to me.  You have helped me so much in giving me options."  Hopefully, this will help you keep friendly people on your team and they won't feel rejected or invalidated themselves.  Their emotional support is just as important as the information they have to offer.  But being only human, some folks can go sideways in sensitive situations.  Don't let this dynamic push you away at first.  If you just want someone to listen while you think out loud, just let them know.  They'll be forewarned that you don't want to be blugeoned with advice/orders.  Hey! this whole post is "advice" but if you hit the delete button, I'll understand!   :D

Apologies for not remembering from your posts if you are Catholic or not, but I don't think it will matter.  You might try looking up the local Catholic Charities organization if you feel you want to try everything to save the marriage before finally deciding.  (Your call!)  They have marriage counseling services.  Contrary to public press or youthful conditioning, many churches are NOT judgmental and want to help.  They have seen many, many people in a world of hurt.  They are not there to feel superior or judge you.  But again, this is a matter of finding a good fit.  

You have had to dig and research on your own before.  I really hear you.  All of the above is probably stuff you've thought of, but I'm hoping that just receiving it from someone else gives you some encouragement and "company".  Perhaps there is a divorce support group in town that you could attend right now to find real live in-person companions on the journey to give you a shoulder to lean on.  

I hope this helps.  I'm not the most qualified person to flag you in as you try to land the plane on the aircraft carrier during a storm, but I'm waving my arms and flashlights wildly to let you know you're on the radar.  You've still got plenty of fuel and you're going to make it.   Stay safe. Hugs, Seeker

Acappella:
Your response means so much to me Seeker.  Thank you.  I am at a loss for words (can you believe it?! :shock: ).  Oh yikes here come a few after all.....Those book friends of yours are smart for sure and I am certain they don't know how lucky they are.

Anonymous:
acapella,

I think you need an attorney. You have too much to lose. Also I would recommend the book, "How To Do Your Own Divorce In ___(whatever state you live in)." It's published by Nolo Press. Even if you don't handle the divorce by yourself, it's a good book on the legal process.

Bunny

CC:
Acapella,

I am sorry to see you in so much pain but at the same time I see strength in you more than since I've known you (Echo.).

I certainly understand your fears.  I've never been divorced, and I can't imagine haven't to contemplate leaving my husband.  I did leave a fiance that I lived with for three years however.  I would say though that you are beginning to follow your gut, and your gut knows that this man is not likely to willingly change, or even if he did temporarily, it might not prove to have longevity.

As Seeker suggested, couples counseling is always my first thought... but didn't you try this before?  Maybe I am confusing you with someone.  The problem as we all know is that most Ns are capable of snowing over the therapist.

My N mother went to some counseling several years back to deal with grief about my dad's death and worked a little on herself.  It didn't last long, and the result was this:  She is now able to identify in herself that she is emotionally immature, but the behavior has not changed.  She can be reminded that she is hurting me (or someone else), and will apologize... but the behaviors continue because she doesn't know any other way and can't (won't) change.  The moral of the story?  A true N is incapable of EMPATHY.  Acknowledgement is helpful, but as someone else suggested, is an N ever truly capable of healing?  That's even assuming they want to! She continues to use, manipulate, lie, hurt, and control, even if she feels bad about it later (which I don't think she does other than in principle - it is more for fear of losing those that are her admirers).

So, the options become, if we are comparing it to an N situation, as I see it:

1. Accept this man for who is is, love him unconditionally and learn how to distance and protect yourself with boundaries.  But true intimacy will be almost impossible. If you bring children into the marriage with him later, you will be doing so knowing you may have to protect them or teach them how to protect themselves from his N behaviors. Can you experience peace within yourself under these circumstances?

2. Accept this man for who he is, and love yourself unconditionally.  Acknowledge that you cannot change him, and decide you want to experience true intimacy and peace elsewhere.

3. Decide not to decide now, but take a moving-forward action: remove yourself physically from the picture (since there are no children you are lucky to have this option) and take time to be apart and decide.  Go to counseling together, and apart.  Use your intuition to see if his behaviors change if he promises to.  Learn how to distinguish between geniune change and manipulations.

I think a big part of why this is harder for you than past relationships is probably age.  I know that I would have had more strength to "bounce back" at 25 than now at 36.  Our lifestyles change.  We get comfortable in our 30's and later.  We are mature, we are homey, we're not out clubbing like we used to. We fear "will I ever meet someone again?" or fears about that the pickins get more slim as we get older (with age comes more "baggage"?)

The good news is - because of the experiences and maturity.. we become less needy, don't we? Especially us here, because we are healing.  When you met your now husband, you were probably needy of him in ways that were subconscious.  I think what you are experiencing now is that you might not need him like you used to!  It doesn't mean you don't love him, but you might recognize that some of the love may have been immeshed with need.  If you leave him,  you probably won't feel the "need" to replace him, because of the growth you've done.  You might find peace within yourself - and healthier people will be drawn to you automatically.  It is under these circumstance that I met my now husband, whom I am happy with and when we have problems is healthy enough to work with me (sincerely).

So, that is a lot of lip service for me to be giving considering I've never been in your shoes.  Please take it with a grain of salt, or tell me to go to hell. whichever you feel, I won't be offended! :lol:  

Whatever you decide, I am here and supportive. A very big decision indeed. Good luck with your ponderings.

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