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I am in need of divorce tips, suggestions, etc.. Please.

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Acappella:
Thanks Bunny, I'll check out those books.  I had heard something about Nolo being good but I didn't know what they were about.  Sounds like an excellent start.  

While I am there I think I'll browse the shelves for Cliff notes for life...now there is an idea, eh? Oh those are only written after the story is over?  Drat.

Acappella:
Hi CC,

thank you for your oh so thorough and warm response.  thank you also for noting what you notice about me.  I have made myself invisible for so long.  

I am fighting off some kinda bug or something (in addition to my husband's funky behavior) so I am hoping to feel even stronger soon.  

What you said about your mom's "progress" is very much like what I am experiencing with my husband.  

And age...in some ways well I am more needy.  I need less quantity and more quality I think.  And I tire more easily and I don't travel so light. I didn't own stuff when I was young.  I am talking REAL baggage.

Your option list...for me 2 is the only option I feel now and once I have my own place and a job I like if he wants to go to couseling together I might.  If I did I imagine it would only be to help him work to understand what happened and perhaps for a healthier friendship for us if we were to remain friends.  

Yes we went to counseling together and separate.  The therapist was good in that

1)  he called it like he saw it (karate mind was his description in addition to Narcissism regarding my husband's tendancies).  And

2) he was compassionate.  He stuck to the topic of feelings and didn't let my husband bully him nor distract him with stories, facts, chit chat etc. at least from what I saw.   The therapist knew how to get to my husbands insecurities and pain and once there be kind despite my husband's sharp defenses.  For me it was the first time in my life I'd ever felt so  acknowledged and protected.  When the therapist called my husband on his spewing anger at me and punishingness I was shocked.  I thought it was invisible.  I didn't trust my own feelings and didn't know/feel I didn't - when our therapist spoke up and nailed right then and there I realized what feeling I'd been missing.  My husband was shocked too.  He thought it was invisible.  He had convinced himself.  The therapist also helped point out when I wasn't listening and/or wasn't speaking up.  I just read some of Richard Grossman's excellent articles and in one he describes inroads made between a therapist and all walled off patient that are then patched over detoured again by camaflage, by defenses.  (This is begining to sound like a road runner cartoon).  I suspect that patching began to occur near the end.  We had started therapy at my insistence when my husband was suffering greatly at his job (some a result of his bullying and hiding/posing/not communicating and some because the culture was condusive to that sort of thing....unhealthy in general).  Also we were having terrible fights.  He is in a kinder gentler job situation which appears less condusive to his being overwhelmed.  I refuse to have the kinds of fights we used to and am stronger.  So far my assessment is only big time pain is a motivator for him.   I cannot be a provider of that pain any more.  Only in leaving perhaps. I wish he was inspired by a feeling of a potentially better life.  He doesn't appear to be.  

Thanks again.  

The weekend is starting and I am shoring up for more of the same as last night.  Yeeesh.

No time to spell check....

Anonymous:
Get yourself a good, junk-yard-dog divorce attorney.  And follow his/her advice. And do it ASAP, before you move out or make any decisions (unless you are in danger, of course).

Anonymous:
Hey  there Seeker,


--- Quote ---I hope things have quieted down since you wrote this post and that you are safe. My heart goes out to you.
--- End quote ---


Thank you seeker. I can really feel your kindness in what you say.


--- Quote ---[Big Hug.]
--- End quote ---
Thank you again.  

Instead of calming down...we blew up.  My husband somehow discovered this site.  He didn't tell me directly.  I made sure not to check the auto log in option.  I erased history stuff regularly.  I have said everything to him that I have written here anyway.   He was really cold and crewl again tonight and I started to cry (damn it!) and he blurted out ..."you're outta here anyway."  "I found out about the voicelessness forum."  "It all sounds intellectual to me anyway."  "You are probably mad at me for reducing you to having to go to those lengths for 'support'."  He didn't get it.  I am not ashamed of posting here.  I can see that if I'd met my husband or not I would have been better off finding this avenue for connecting. I know it has limitations.  Hey this is a process.  I am hearing a vacant echo across a cold and dark canyon right now in my head.  "I know" "I know"  "I know"  "I am not perfect"  If anything I could thank him as it is only because of our problems that I reached out...couldn't afford therapy so I dug deeper and broader.  hardship/necesity  is the mother of invention or whatever.  Last comment he made was "You don't sound now like you did on that forum."  Why do I let his lack of sensitivity lead me to feel duplicitous about myself?  I instantly felt like a fraud.  My reaction is to run like a damned gerbal on one of the wheels until I die just to "prove" I am worthy of love.  Arrrrg. I imagine he has a similar wheel and he hates me for disturbing his run.


--- Quote ---First, take a deep breath. I'm not being facetious. You are in the heat of battle and are probably feeling overwhelmed with the constant up and down chaos.
--- End quote ---
Again, thank you and you are so right.  I just took a deep breath.  The way you say things I really get you are not facetious.  I have been told to take a deep breath by my husband and I felt like a dog being told to lay down.  Not that he intended it to come out that way and still I don't feel that the way that you write it.


--- Quote ---And in the spirit of stabilizing your head, go somewhere safe and quiet where you won't be disturbed.
--- End quote ---
Due to cold weather, a closed library and a having to sign a lease to live where we are at and other reasons I am home now.  I am working to create that place inside myself and here on this site. I feel weird now that he could be reading this and I am trying not to let him cause me to recoil from here.  


--- Quote --- I would look for people who want to help without pushing their agenda on me
--- End quote ---
.  Very wise Seeker.   At least if I am going to be pushed I want to select someone with an agenda I share to pushed by.  Coaches push and it is done in the best cases with clarity about the team agenda.


--- Quote ---As I talk to people, I will try to stay attuned to my feelings and reactions to what they advise me to do. If I have a strong gut feeling like "NO, I don't want to do that" or "YES, I really need to think about that" or "I don't know if that will work" listen to those feelings. Intuition is really a valid guide.
--- End quote ---
Emotionally brilliant Seeker.  thank you.  


--- Quote ---erhaps through your previous journeys, you are aware that some people get a little bent when you don't take their advice.  I wish more people (esp. friends, not nec. professionals) would understand that advice is information to be sorted through our own filters, and that our decisions are based on what will work for us, not a reflection on the "correctness" of their decisions.
--- End quote ---
Wow.  Awesome insight.  

 
--- Quote ---Their emotional support is just as important as the information they have to offer.
--- End quote ---
The former makes the later so much more palletable.  


--- Quote ---But being only human, some folks can go sideways in sensitive situations.
--- End quote ---
Yup.  I zig zag myself.


--- Quote ---Don't let this dynamic push you away at first. If you just want someone to listen while you think out loud, just let them know. They'll be forewarned that you don't want to be blugeoned with advice/orders
--- End quote ---
. I get sad here as my husband and I did that for a while.  I'd got so happy when he announced "I just need to vent for a while."  Direct communication is like sunlight and fresh air.  I asked him to please say what he wanted and he did on a couple of occassions.  I recall a few times in four years he announced what he wanted and needed.  I felt safe when he did.  



--- Quote ---Hey! this whole post is "advice" but if you hit the delete button, I'll understand!
--- End quote ---
Are you kidding?  I know I can hit the delete button either on the keyboard or in my head and I am savoring this...is there a savor button?


--- Quote ---Apologies for not remembering from your posts if you are Catholic or not,
--- End quote ---
Cut it out.  Apologie not called for here.  Your caring is so obvious.    


--- Quote ---many churches are NOT judgmental and want to help. They have seen many, many people in a world of hurt. They are not there to feel superior or judge you
--- End quote ---
. I respect religions in that they speak to the collective good and I feel that is too often ignored in our individualistic society. And they have been picking up the pieces of broken souls and inspiring love and healing forever.   I so appreciate the values that religion supports.  I am sure that Jesus and/or the concept of him is great.  Maybe I am in deep trouble with this and yet I don't feel I can't go that route.  Religions I've looked into are so specific and I am seeking something more universal.  I guess it isn't mutually exclusive the specific and the universal.  Ok, I am rambling and turning this into an apology ...I feel sad about it and I am just not feeling I'd ever want to pick a faith, (just one) as they say.  


--- Quote ---All of the above is probably stuff you've thought of, but I'm hoping that just receiving it from someone else gives you some encouragement and "company".
--- End quote ---
 I really appreciate the way you articulated some things, especially the response to advice and agendas and the air craft carrier metaphor. I've rushed by reactions with advice given before and reading your insight I slowed down and noticed what I experienced in the past.  


--- Quote ---Perhaps there is a divorce support group in town that you could attend right now to find real live in-person companions on the journey to give you a shoulder to lean on.
--- End quote ---
 I have spoken with five therapists all of whom say there are none around here.  One said groups have fallen out of style.  Yeeesh. I found this site through seeking and I'll keep it up.  


--- Quote --- I'm not the most qualified person to flag you in as you try to land the plane on the aircraft carrier during a storm, but I'm waving my arms and flashlights wildly to let you know you're on the radar. You've still got plenty of fuel and you're going to make it.
--- End quote ---

I just watched the movie "Winged Migration."  Have you seen it?  On the DVD there is a feature in which they talk about making the documentary.  If you've seen it then perhaps you will understand that your metaphore is more beautiful to me than I can express.  If you haven't seen it I have a feeling you would appreciate it.  Especially where they talk about the making of the film.  It took 6 teams of people working 4 years to make the film.  The film is beautiful without explanation also.  The bigger the screen the better in this case.  I can't begin to express the sort of empathy and team work and working with the world as it is which the making of that documentary exemplifies.  They in no way confuse movement with action.  

Redundant yes and Thank you seeker.  Thank you.

Again I am too tired to spell check and since I didn't go to half of junior high nor did I go to much high school, last I was informed my spelling was at a 6th grade level....right about where I left school so in proper context it isn't laziness or lack of caring...I just haven't caught back up with where I left off.  Hope it isn't too annoying.

guest - acappella:
Now I really can't go back and do a spell check later ...arrrrg.  Oh well, that was me Acappella in the last post.

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