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dealing with the guilt of leaving

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Simon46:
Annabelle,

Like others on this board, I applaud your bravery and growing self-respect, even though I understand that you are scared. It is funny as we each read these messages, different things jump out at different people. I feel compelled to comment on your feeling of guilt. It took me a long time to understand that my feelings of guilt were taught to me, and are just a conditioned feeling, nothing more. When I feel guilty it is a conditioned response kicking in. My feeling of guilt is actually quite different from how I truly feel inside. So part of me can feel guilty and part of me can know better all at the same time. So, here you are doing something good for yourself finally getting out of a horrible situation where you are demeaned and mistreated and you feel guilty. Aren’t we humans just full of crazy contradictions?

Your N knows this and knows intimately how to manipulate you and your feelings. Maybe appealing to your sense of being a good mother, a good wife – that always makes her feel guilty. How about this one “After all I’ve done for you…” How about ‘I’ll do better, don’t leave me.” The possibilities are endless. And until you catch on, it keeps working. You have now caught on, and are well on your way. He is losing control and he knows it. I say hooray for you and your self respect.

In the Star Wars movies there was the famous line, “Use the Force Luke.” It occurred to me one day that a narcissistic personality would unconsciously say to himself “Use the FOG, Luke.” The FOG is a reminder to use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to manipulate the other person you wish to control. It is a very powerful force, the FOG! It is deliberate and premeditated.  Just use it, it works. Until one day they catch on that they really are OK as is. They see that you are using the FOG and that you always have. They see how demeaning this is and that you really were never on their team at all. They see the lies for what they are. The FOG LIFTS. They begin to see that it was all a ruse and that they are actually *not at all responsible* for your absurd behavior and never were. They stop taking the blame for you and rest it squarely where it belongs, on your shoulders. They stop playing. They just quietly and calmly stop responding to pressure from you, as if they don’t even owe you and explanation! As if they don’t understand that they are supposed to take everything you dish out! As if they are equal to you! As if their thoughts are just as legitimate as yours and should be valued and respected!

Once we begin to see clearly that we are actually wonderful people who should have been valued and loved and treated respectfully, and we treat ourselves that way, everything begins to change for us.  

I get the feeling that you know all of this anyway, but I just wanted to say it and send a little support your way.

Acappella:
Hi again Annabelle,

Before I get all deep....Hope you are planning a apt./house warming party at your new place!  Celebration is in order.  


--- Quote ---he will do "anything it takes" bc "I'm so important to him."

"I need to make you happy again. Tell me what I need to do. Anything, and I'll do it. Take medication, go to counseling again, etc."
--- End quote ---


Do anything it takes?  How about stop asking you for directions?

Sounds like an either/or perspective.  Either he is in total control or you rather than two equals.   AND beneath the alleged trade off he decides when and who gets their turn?    That is dumping responsibility on you while trying to retain control over you...an attempt anyway, unintentional or not....doesn't matter.  He needs you to tell him what to do?  He will do anything IF ONLY YOU tell him what?  As long as he is so dependent on you emotionally and so unconscious of it how can he not also resent that big ole powerful you that he has created?  He has made you too powerfull in his mind and heart.  He will have to push you away as long as he is so imbalanced.  Frankly, the will do "anything it takes" worries me....that is a sign of despirate fear, a flag to me not a gift.  

I imagine you are a strong woman and that is partly why he is so attracted to you and is able to heap so much responsibility on you.  In addition to being strong I hope you are getting some more professinal assistance in addition to this forum.  These situations are complex. The following questions are to encourage you to plan the way that you leave and to protect yourself.  Don't mean to be dramatic and.....Will he try to nab the children?  How will your action be viewed in a divorce situation?  Are you doing what you need to protect yourself so that when you do file for divorce you have proof that you didn't just run off with the children etc? I believe you are doing the right thing in leaving (if for no other reason than you just feel you must - no one has a right to judge your feelings and your choosing to go).   Personally, of course there are certain things that I would break a law for if I felt I had to protect children and myself.  


--- Quote ---I still feel like a liar, a sneak.  
--- End quote ---

Just because you lie or sneak doesn't make that who you are...A liar, A sneak.  If you felt OK with lying and sneaking then you might do those things a lot more often and thereby be doing yourself harm in the long run.  You are doing something safe and fair for yourself and your children and your leaving is NOT an assault on your husband.  Is your husband a liar and a sneak for saying he will do something and then not?  You seem to understand that he is not in control of everything.  How about sending some of that understanding your way? Doesn't seem to me that you made the rules up in this cycle (not alone anyway) and either way you are exiting so you are ending the game because you don't like the rules.  Seems very fair and direct to me.  Staying when you are so unhappy is a sort of lie that can last a life time.

He can go on and change or not.  Your leaving isn't stopping him from anything other than living with you. Is that his birth right?  Nope.  (Your leaving changes his relationship with the children and that is the risk he took, as did you, when having children with another person.  That is why there is pain, referees, mediators and lawyers in such situations.)

I hope you manage to enjoy your freedom, you are working hard for it.  Take Care!

annabelle:
Wow.  Thank you so much for the support, warmth, insight, and suggestions!  You all have been so helpful and a great reality check.

Rojo - you are right about my rationalizing and rducing my husband's behavior, and that I do not have the option of feeling pity for him right now - I will try to throw this out the window - there's no room for this with all I have to concentrate on!  You're also right about "pulling on my heart strings" - he's certainly trying to do that.  When you ask, "What would you tell a friend to do?" or something to that affect, that really opened my eyes - I would tell her get out how you can, plan it secretly!  Thanks Rojo.

Bunny - it's so true that this strategy (of secrecy) is the right one for a dangerous situation.  You helped me realize that different situations require different strategies, and if the end justifies the means, so be it.  Thank you.

Jaded - (such an anomaly, your stage name here on this message board, as you seem so full of life and positive energy) - thanks for the reminder that part of my guilt is "trained guilt".  It's so true, too, that often when I've felt guilt in this relationship, it's because I was putting myself first.  I'm so glad to see (this doesn't sound right - so sad, but so happy others can relate I mean) that others have become emotionally numb in order to survive, as you mentioned.  This helps me to realize that I'm not going crazy because I can't really feel anymore.  I can't wait until feeling comes back! :)  Thanks Jaded.

Acappella - I didn't read your post because it was too long.  Ha, ha, just kidding! :)  Thanks for the note that hurt is a part of life - not a way of life!   Interesting thoughts about empathy.  I've always been taught that empathy is a positive thing - valued in society - I'm in the psychiatric field so I've always been trained to use my empathy.  I do know now that empathy in a person is what Ns seek and suck out!  Your suggestions on presenting to my husband that I need physical space rather than the space of falseness and anger are great, and that having physical and financial independent from him will show him that to me, he's not just a provider.  Thanks, Acappella!

Alan - thanks for the link to the radio show.  I don't have Real Player.  But I'd like to listen to it somehow, or read it if there's a transcript.

CC - thank you for reminding me that his pain is bc his needs are not being met, not bc he lost me.

Simon - Thank you for highlighting the contradiction that is guilt over leaving a situation in which I'm demeaned and mistreated.  I LOVE your acronym of FOG,, and it's so true how it can be lifted - that's exactly how I feel.  Also, your quote "they stop playing" - this is also what I feel - "Game Over" keeps running through my mind!


After reading everybody's advice, I am taking more care with my plan to tell my N about leaving.  I have a phone date with my father tomorrow to tell him all, and ask for his advice.  I'm 35 years old but still his little girl, so I'm hoping he can handle it.  His good friend knows my story and told me my father would be able to handle it, and would be very supportive (and would NOT try to kill my N. - he's an overprotective Italian father, so I'm hoping that's true, ha ha.)  And, Acappella (sorry if I keep misspelling your name) 35 or your 36 is a fine age to be a divorcee - we are more mature which is a desirable trait to a MATURE man, and we can still look hot!  Of course, I'll be a single mom with kids, but I know the right man will be attracted to me and my family, AND, more importantly, I'm not even concerned about finding someone else right now - I'm so looking forward to finding myself!  Yay for us!

Have a great holiday everyone on this board - I know this Thanksgiving I'll be giving thanks for all of you.

Annabelle

annabelle:
Thank you, too, Karin for the encouragement!
Annabelle

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