feeling confused and a bit used

[Anonymous]

Sorry I'm late in here too Mum:

Just want to give you a big (((((((((((((((((((((Mum))))))))))))))))))
and say that your children will learn .......giving.....from you and ......

taking

from him.

Which thing is what you want them to do for their loved ones, their mate, their children, for those in need?

I know it works both ways (in that in healthy relationships both people give and take) but in giving to their father.....your children receive/take something soooo good back, it is hard to put it into words.  Their sense of accomplishment (making the gifts)....which helps to build their self esteem.  Their joy in sharing (which feels good and helps them feel good about themselves too).  Their expression of caring for their father (which might not always be said in words).   Their knowledge that their mom was/is kind to others, even those who aren't kind to her, which deepens their feelings of respect and love for her/you (and hopefully will be seen by them as something they too can take/inherit/learn from ....feel good about themselves and their own behaviour).   Their sense of somewhat normalcy......of just being able to give something nice to their dad...which they would probably do....if their family was "normal" and their parents were happily married--I mean it wouldn't be resented, in that case (I think children really want this).  All of these things and more they gain/get/take by giving.

Your ex.......takes.  They will see that that's all he does.  They will be hurt by it and not like it as much as giving.   Maybe they will decide not to be people who only take?  Without your example, they wouldn't have any other choice, would they?  They wouldn't know any different.

I don't think it was a mistake this year to spend that money.  Your daughter really wanted to give.  You helped her, even though it was a sacrifice, even though it will never be done for you by him, even though you really don't want to give to him.  I think, it might be something you won't be doing every year but it was not an error to be generous and giving.  I think it was admirable and a wonderful example for your children to see, learn from and possibly emulate, at some time in their lives, when someone they love wants to give but can't do it without help.

((((((((((Mum))))))))))

You're a great mum!!!

GFN

[mum]

I cannot tell you people how very blessed I feel today.  I have a lot to be grateful for, and finding this board, and feeling welcome and part of this group is yet another blessing.

That's why it is vital to know the trash schedule so the kids can "trash pick" their gifts.  

Mia, you have me laughing so hard with this one!!! Thanks for being so understanding (guess you have no choice....as we divorced the same guy )

I would say a big F.U. to his attorney and not let that shark prevent me from being a mother. You will NEVER be considered a parental alienator. NEVER

Bunny: Thank you!  Did I hear you write this?  Because I woke up this morning and I proclaimed (in my head of course): "I DO NOT manipulate my kids. I KNOW this and I won't let anyone make me doubt this. I know I do not do this and it doesn't matter if "someone" suggests this.  I am not messing my kids up."
I know that questioning myself on this one is part and parcel of N damage...or what the N took advantage of: my inability to own myself and have "seniority" in my own life.  It's like giving my power away AGAIN to even concern myself with this.  

I have decided to look on that (possibility of being accused of PAS) as someone telling me I very possibly murdered someone.... like because anyone is capable of murder, that I would possibly do it as well!  MORE manipulative B**S***!!

Resolution: I have been divorced from this man going on 9 years, but the boat is still in the bay, and there are these horrible reefs to get around....I love the imagery, thank you.  The life I deserve is out in the beautiful blue ocean....but I am not unhappy because I know I am guiding the boat out there!

you've got to have your witts about you.....and you can't be overly sensitive.

 Absolutely, this is a great thing to remember.  It is empowering, actually.

We're soooooo uptight about doing anything 'wrong' or 'bad' (screwing with their heads) that we end up screwing with our own heads about what's okay and not okay.

Portia: Thank you! You nailed this one.... as usual.

your children will learn .......giving.....from you and ...... taking
from him.

Thank you GFN, for reminding me of that.  I feel the hugs.

It is such a delicate balance.

It is, Brigid...It helps to know I am not alone on this understanding.
 

because her love for her dad was more important to you than your - whatever the word might be.

Well.. There are a lot of words that could go here....but this is the bigger idea here for me.  I take comfort in your understanding, October.  And thanks for the kiss!

making yourself responsible for the universe being imperfect,

Stormy:  Yes, yes, yes.....that was it, really.  Ironically, I did this a lot yesterday (on a lot of things, not just this....Phillip could probably tell me something about what the heck was going on in the cosmos!!!) But I'm glad I got to talk here and you all helped me with what was going on in my head!!!!

Thanks for all your kindness again.....I hope I didn't miss anyone, (Brigid is to blame for teaching me the quote thingy.....we've created a monster, no?)

[d'smom]

it's nice to be able to get of kilter sometimes and know it's not lethal.

sorry I got in late too mum, I have not been here lately, want to support you - yeah!!!! not not not  not lethal. no no no no.....  thats definitely how they want us to feel, everything is life or death, always stress, always fear.....  more of their crap.  sorry for all the pressure it put you under

I realized one mistake I did make is thinking I couldn't talk about this with anyone.  [/b[


yes :}}}} thats also for sure  :}

I have reason to be pissed, but it's about the damn pillow....and if I hadn't spent so much money on the materials when a**h*** is currently bleeding me dry financially, all would be fine.  .....  And it's not just budget. Truth is, I don't want to spend 5 seconds on the guy, even if it is "for my kids".  

there you go. what a great chance for your daughter and you to discuss the concept of budgeting. time, money,  love. :}

I am very aware that my ex's attorney has accused other mothers of diliberately alienting and manipulating thier children against a father.  She has accused me of this in various ways in the last two years, probably to scare me (she is a shark).  I am very careful not to push my kids partly because of that and also, because I want them not to be so concerned with MY needs.  .....  I  sometimes think that because my ex puts the kids squarely in the middle of the battleground, I should try not to.  They need one parent who is not screwing them around.
Whether keeping the battles out of thier lap, in the long run, is best for them or not....remains to be seen.  

mum, dont be scared, be aware. I know its easier said than done. I agre with the others that talking about -their- feelings is not manipulating, its listening.........  you know im in almost exactly the same situation, they manipulate and its ok, we jsut be who we are and get accused of all kinds of impropiety.... its disempowering/frustrating/frightening..... its hard to make good decisions under that kind of pressure.  like trying to steer a ship with people hanging onto your arms and pulling the steering wheel away all the time...  i wanted to say something that has helped me sometimes -

"PERFECT LOVE CASTETH OUT FEAR.".

whos got more perfect love than a mom. perfect love isnt giving everything away. perfect love is.. well.. perfect love...  which also means respecting yourself.. perfect love casteth out fear. i just felt like saying that. jmo
anyway take care mum.
Anna

[mum as guest]

"PERFECT LOVE CASTETH OUT FEAR.".

Anna, thank you. This is a beautiful phrase.  That it came from you, who knows probably more than anyone, about patience, focus and motherly love....means all the more to me.  I will keep this in my heart (and perhaps tatoo it on my forehead next to: "go ask someone who listened" ...which I need there for the school year!)

[Stormchild]

There once was a woman named mum
Who felt quite unhappy and glum.
"I'm rather confused
And a little bit used
And my X is a nasty N bum!"

She posted her story right here
Where her friends helped recover her cheer.
Though her X is a fool,
Her kids are way cool,
And perfect love casteth out fear.

[hope this helps bring a smile to your face today.]

[mum]

Stormy!!  I love it.  I am on the floor!
You would have no idea how much you brightened up my day!!! Long annoying kind of day full of flub ups.....and then this! THANKS for a great laugh!!!!

[OR]

Hey MuM, been busy my D just got back from camp today she had a great time. Happy to have her back home.

You know Im so new to this, my thoughts may not be as deep as some of the other savy posters. I worry about this for my D and at this point I had her send only a FD card, not able to stomach much more.

I wonder looking at the Idea you want the hearts of the children to stay soft not harden from what they have gone through with their Dad.

You especially want them to have a kind heart towards you.
Your H is never going to be able to teach them this.
Teaching them to be giving is good and they will know how because of YOU.
You helping make something that took some effort is a big step for the whole family.

The hurt your H has put you all through is very deep. Money as you know is connected to alot of emotions.

I believe to see the Pain is real,  hurt, sorrow, the BS is all there, it happened. Now being in agreement that it's not in your head that you all have deep, deep hurt from your N can you REFRAME it all into something that can be managed in a healthy way.
Help me out what would be healthy here.
 
Determine H is so wacked and even though you didn't want to spend 1cent on him how else could you have changed the Idea your D wanted to make him a pillow.
The Pillow must mean something to her.
The emotional attachment to what she was doing, knowing you were helping her, it had to be healing for her in someway.
maybe through this pillow she has connected her parents to herself, even for a brief moment.


He will get the pillow and know you must have helped her somehow.
You have become the bigger person MUM.
He won't see it but your kids and the rest of the world will see this pillow and just know this pillow  was made from love.
That is what will be everlasting in her heart.

That's what I see. You can let your D know next time because of the money factor and the emotions attached for you, it's still very painful.
You want to be part of what she is doing, but it would be a better idea not to get involved with gift giving to him.
 
I can't even stomach to hear my H's voice, I'm a long way from healing. In time I will be faced with having to show my D how to show a caring heart even to those that don't care for me.

How will I reframe my thoughts so I can move on in a healthy way,
I don't know yet. Maybe picture how it's all his fault and not mine.
He's a A-hole, a Jerk and I wish he would leave me alone.
I don't want to see him or hear his voice. Im not there yet have not processed all the pain and once I find out more on the divorce I may not be able to move on with out alot of pain and hurt for a long time.

Well again Im not the best person to chime in on this but you know I wanted to be a part of what is going on with you. You always are helpful to me and I hope you can make sense out of what Im trying to say.  

Love you Mum, your the best ..............OR

[OR]

Hey MuM, been busy my D just got back from camp today she had a great time. Happy to have her back home.

You know Im so new to this, my thoughts may not be as deep as some of the other savy posters. I worry about this for my D and at this point I had her send only a FD card, not able to stomach much more.

I wonder looking at the Idea you want the hearts of the children to stay soft not harden from what they have gone through with their Dad.

You especially want them to have a kind heart towards you.
Your H is never going to be able to teach them this.
Teaching them to be giving is good and they will know how because of YOU.
You helping make something that took some effort is a big step for the whole family.

The hurt your H has put you all through is very deep. Money as you know is connected to alot of emotions.

I believe to see the Pain is real,  hurt, sorrow, the BS is all there, it happened. Now being in agreement that it's not in your head that you all have deep, deep hurt from your N can you REFRAME it all into something that can be managed in a healthy way.
Help me out what would be healthy here.
 
Determine H is so wacked and even though you didn't want to spend 1cent on him how else could you have changed the Idea your D wanted to make him a pillow.
The Pillow must mean something to her.
The emotional attachment to what she was doing, knowing you were helping her, it had to be healing for her in someway.
maybe through this pillow she has connected her parents to herself, even for a brief moment.


He will get the pillow and know you must have helped her somehow.
You have become the bigger person MUM.
He won't see it but your kids and the rest of the world will see this pillow and just know this pillow  was made from love.
That is what will be everlasting in her heart.

That's what I see. You can let your D know next time because of the money factor and the emotions attached for you, it's still very painful.
You want to be part of what she is doing, but it would be a better idea not to get involved with gift giving to him.
 
I can't even stomach to hear my H's voice, I'm a long way from healing. In time I will be faced with having to show my D how to show a caring heart even to those that don't care for me.

How will I reframe my thoughts so I can move on in a healthy way,
I don't know yet. Maybe picture how it's all his fault and not mine.
He's a A-hole, a Jerk and I wish he would leave me alone.
I don't want to see him or hear his voice. Im not there yet have not processed all the pain and once I find out more on the divorce I may not be able to move on with out alot of pain and hurt for a long time.

Well again Im not the best person to chime in on this but you know I wanted to be a part of what is going on with you. You always are helpful to me and I hope you can make sense out of what Im trying to say.  

Love you Mum, your the best ..............OR

[OR]

Opps!  Love ya MUM  and lots of Hugs ...OR

[mum as guest]

Your words brought tears to my eyes, OR.  I am not sad, I am just feeling such sentimentality and relief, I guess, that I have found so much kindness among strangers.
I am trying to teach my children that love is a better foundation than anything else in this life.  Thank you for reminding me that I do this.
(((((OR))))) Bless you...love MUM

[Plucky Guest2]

Anyway....to add to the low feeling, my daughter said she feels better now than she ever has at her dad's house. Oh, BIG SURPRISE.

I totally understand this feeling.  You dealt with your jerk of an ex, you're trying to look after your kids despite his behavior towards you and them, and the financial strain, and you accidentally spent too much on what you think was him (but really is your daughter) and now to top it off, he is looking better to your daughter.  Maybe it feels like you are going to be swept aside on favor of this...expletive.

I don't think that is even close to going to happen.  Your kids know what is up.   And even if she is not feeling SO bad at her dad's house, that does not mean she likes him any more than before, or more than you.  It might mean that your efforts to make it work for her, are working.  

But don't feel bad for feeling bad.  It is normal.  I would feel exactly the same way.

Plucky Guest2

[Anonymous]

Wow, thanks for that...so much. I was (honestly) just thinking about that very subject, while they are at dad's... How he will be just nice enough to them while they are talking to an expert who will testify on thier behalf in court....and then how long will it be before he loses the facade and yells at her for bringing kleenex to his house from my home.. (what, toilet paper's not good enough for you??). I'm not making this up...that's mild!

The clandestine whispery phone calls and cryptic text messages from my daughter ("call me and ask yes or no questions") have stopped and it's becuase she is either more comfortable or more afraid than ever.  Knowing my gutsy "take no prisoners" daughter...I think they are being nicer....she is the one who wanted the expert to testify for her......she is in a powerful position now. Good for her.

[Anonymous]

ooops, that was me....Mum