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Boundary setting vs attempts to change the N

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catlover:
Thanks Bunny and Jaded.  

I really needed to hear that I'm not as messed up as my mom!!  

What I've had a hard time with for many years now is not being sure what my "gut" feelings really ARE.  They seem to change from day to day.  Also, I'm terrified that if I "stand up for myself", I'm being like my Nmom, who was/is totally demanding and never satisfied with anything.  So whenever I feel like something's not good enough, I don't trust that I'm not just being negative and overly critical like her.  And if I were to be the "opposite" of her, I'd take care of everyone and be overly sympathetic.  So, it's really hard for me to find that balance, and it's the main reason I started therapy.

Thanks again for your input.

Jaded911:
Gwyn,

You made several valid points that really never occurred to me.  I can understand when you stand up for yourself you might perceive it acting like your mom.  I don't know hun what to tell you about standing up for yourself.  I get into this discussion with a friend of mine.  If you are laid back and go with the flow, you find yourself flowing in the direction of everyone else just to keep the peace.  If you stand up for yourself it seems that it is an invitation for some people to take you on.  Almost like they are thinking "come on tough guy, lets see how tough you are".  I will just offer my experiences with both sides of that coin.

Before I met my xN, I was a very independent woman.  I paid my own way and I did not have to be with a man to feel complete.  I dated over the years before I met my xN, however nobody captured my heart like he did.  I spoke my mind but I also have empathy and would never hurt anyones feelings.  I do not like confrontation but if I am pinned in a corner I can hold my own.  I would say I was right in the middle of outspoken but I could also hush up on some things.  

Now that I have been in this relationship I now realise that I would take being outspoken any day of the week.  If a person is outspoken they might step on some toes along the way.  Speaking your mind could put you at a higher risk for being proven wrong because your thoughts are out there for everyone to know.  But you know what, who doesn't make mistakes.  Who hasn't stuck their foot in their mouth.  You make ammends for your mistakes and you work your ars off to not repeat them.  The key word in that sentence is YOUR MISTAKES!!  You own up to your mistakes and you go on with yourself.  

Being in a position where I could not speak my mind and I had to agree with far out crap just to keep the peace with Brent, geesh I can't begin to explain how that feels for someone who had their self together before the relationship.  I felt belittled, demeaned, unworthy, unloved, stupid, speachless, invisible, and I could go on and on.  Although I have made mistakes throughout my lifetime, they were my mistakes.  I made them and I took responsibility for them.  With my relationship I found myself taking responsibility for his actions just to hush him up.

My gut instinct is like a little voice inside of me that talks to me when I am flubbing up.  I love that little voice and I promise you that I will never ignore it again.  It cost me two years of my life and a major setback for my self esteem.  I think I will stick to being outspoken.  That way if I have some bottom to smooch because I made a mistake, atleast I will know that the smooches are from my own doings.  

Being voiceless seemed to me to be like being invisible.  Now don't get me wrong, being the center of attention is not something I need or enjoy.  But my gosh everyone needs a little attention every now and then.  With my xN, attention was the last thing I ever received.  I say we say it loud and say it proud.  

The good Lord gave us a voice for a reason.  He also gave us legs to walk away from those who refuse to allow us to use it.  Wink!!

catlover:
Jaded,
How great that you got out of that relationship in a mere two years!  Bad that you had to endure it at all though.  One of the things I will be exploring with my therapist is whether I should stay in the relationship I'm in.  I just can't seem to tell.  She had me read an interesting book called "Getting the Love You Want" by Harville Hendrix.  My husband is reading it too, at her suggestion.  It talks about how we are most attracted to people who are like our parent(s) at some deep level, because we are trying to deal with our "unfinished business" with our parents.  The book provides exercises for us to heal with our significant other's help.  Your description of how you were very attracted to your xN really fits with the book.  I've heard this theory before and don't know if it means we're "doomed" or what, but I hope my husband is willing to give the exercises in the book a shot (if not, this may be the ultimate sign to leave).

CC:
Just had a fleeting thought, but it seems to make sense..

I think if you stand up for yourself it is always a good thing - as long as (key) you are being RESPECTFUL of the other party involved, not invalidating someone or manipulating someone into to your own beliefs.  Because in a way, isn't standing up for yourself just another way of saying you are setting a boundary?

Jaded911:
Gwyn,

I have heard that theory alot and it does fit in some situations that I know of.  I have thought about that with Brent and our relationship.  I dunno if it fits here.  He isn't actually like either of my parents, HOWEVER, I know I stayed in the relationship because of feelings I had from my childhood.  Does that make any sense, lol, it really doesn't to me but what the heck.

I guess I believe in unconditional love (which is something I never received as a child).  I felt that if I left the relationship, I would be a hypocrit.  I loved him with all of my heart and I wanted to show him that despite his anti-social behavior, I would love him unconditionally.  That unconditional love was a free pass to walk all over me.  

I never received unconditional love as a child.  I remember all of the rules and regulations my mom laid down for her love.  I didn't want to give my love on the same terms that I received my moms love.  But you know Gwyn, I have never dealt with a N person and I can guess I was in total shock for about 6 months.

I have been divorced for around 9 yrs.  I divorced and decided I needed to find myself.  I went back to school and I lived my life for me.  Sure I dated but I refused to bring men around my kids.  Every other weekend when they were with their dad, I was free to do whatever I wanted to.  I did not want my kids seeing every Tom, Dick, and Harry going thru our house.  I tried to set a good example.

I met Brent and of course he put on a great act at first.  There was no problems with him for about 9 months then all hell broke loose.  I can't explain why I stayed for two years.  All I can say is that I loved the man and I hoped he would see the light.  Well he chose to knock my lights out a few times instead of trying to see his light.  

I know my childhood makes me very vulnerable to alot of thigs.  I am at risk for blocking out love from someone to avoid getting my heart broke.  I am at the point in my life where I want someone who is going to be there for the duration.  What in the world is so hard about finding a good man?  Brent was a good man, 80% of the time.  The other 20% of the time he left you standing there with your mouth hanging open.  

I realize I am worthy of others love, but geesh I kind of wonder what in the heck the problem is.  As I told my friend, I am not lucky in love I recken.  I would rather be alone then being with another N.  

It was funny, my mom made this comment about Brent.  "Mindy where is Brent?"  We broke up mom.  "Why"?  It is a long story mom, don't ask about it if you know whats good for you.  "What did you do Mindy".  

I mean good lord......I looked at her and said as loud as I could "Oh hell mom you know me, never been one to take a flying fist without mouthing back.  What in the HELL DO YOU MEAN WHAT DID I DO"?  "The man broke my rib mom, are you meaning what did I do to deserve that?  Youre sick mom, nothing else needs to be said about it"  She said, oh thats too bad.  I thought he would be the one for you.  I said "hey do me a favor, why don't you just shut the F** up about it".  

I thought my oldest daughter was going to fall out of the chair.  But ya know, I have been through enough with this man.  My mom wanted to rub it into my face.  Just like she did everything else.  She has a way of tainting every thing that she comes in contact with.  It is like they love ruining our times because they can not enjoy life.  

Nutso queen, I mean good lord, lol.  I find it comical at times when I think of her.  She acts like a little kid who is jealous of their friends toys.  She says and does anything possible to ruin the moment.  Ya just have to laugh at them at times because if you can't, you might just lose your damn mind.  

Gwyn, you keep up the good work in your search for yourself.  I knew myself so well before I got into this relationship.  I am slowly but surely finding my way back to myself but geesh, this N crap is enough to mess with an;yones self esteem and their mind too.

I am not going to reply about your therapist because I personally don't use one.  My uncle is a Psychiatrist so thank goodness I do not have to search for the perfect therapist.  Good grief, have to search for a man worth having, a good therapist, a bakery that bakes great cakes, and my diamond earring I lost outside.  I have my day mapped out for me dont I?   Looks like I have all the essentials listed.  Man, therapist, cake, earring.  Yup, its all there.  LOL.  I have yet to do any of the above listed.   It is all your fault Gwyn.  You made me answer this post so now you have to come to my house and finish wrapping the Christmas gifts.  Hurry on over Gwyn, they are piling up waiting on you.

Oh heck, I will let you off this time.  But next time you attract me to a post and I have work to do, you have had it missy.  

JK, thanks for the book suggestion.  I am going to pick it up.  Good Lord I might be scared to find out what I am all about.  Yikes!!

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