Author Topic: Got new T -  (Read 3447 times)

Gail

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Re: Got new T -
« Reply #15 on: October 10, 2005, 10:16:41 PM »
Hi Marta,

I think this is really a complex issue and one I've been really grappling with.  I came to realize that I had to take more responsibility for the way things have turned out in my life.  Yes, I learned to discount my feelings as a child, but now I'm a middle aged adult.  I've really been in a lot of pain over the breakup with BF since it lasted 2 years.  I knew I would be but still took the step to "pull the plug."  Why?  Because I realized I, and only I, chose him.  I chose to start a relationship that had early warning bells, and I chose to stay in it past the point where I knew the story would not have a happy ending.

The real wakeup for me was when a friend gave me a book about narcissism.  I've said before that she gave it to me because xH was giving me a bad time and she thought it would help me cope with him.  It did help me understand him better, but I could also see BF all over the pages.  And another friend gave me a great book called, "Sex and the Soul of A Woman."  It showed me that I probably wouldn't have even considered this particular man as a serious long term romantic interest if we hadn't been physically intimate too soon and if he hadn't been so darn handsome.  (I've tried to imagine me putting up with his bs if he wasn't so good looking, and I wouldn't have stood it.  Hard to admit that I'm so shallow!  :D)

So, I gained some knowledge and insight.  The choice then became, "Yes, I can see how vulnerable I was, why my internal compass was faulty, and why I put up with really lousy treatment.  But now, what am I going to do about it?"  I came to a point where I knew I had to make a choice, and that the only one that gave me a chance for a healthy life from here on out was to end the relationship. 

It seems to me that when parents see that their children are suffering because of their words/actions, they have a choice to make.  They can accept responsibility and seek to find out why they have caused that suffering and how to do better, or they can choose to block out that small still voice of conscience and continue to hurt their innocent children that they should be protecting.

As far as husbands cheating on perfectly good wives, I have a hard time tying that to childhood trauma, especially when it occurs late in the marriage.  I think, in most cases, the husbands have a disatisfaction with their middle aged lives, and start going down roads they shouldn't instead of working it out with their spouses.  Before they know it, some sweet young thing has turned their head, or they're so involved with porn that wife doesn't look so great any more, and eventually the inevitable happens which is the end of the marriage.

Gail

Marta

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Re: Got new T -
« Reply #16 on: October 13, 2005, 05:32:27 AM »
Hi Gail, thanks for sharing your story. Yes, it is a complex issue indeed. Einstein did not believe in free will...Still, its good to keep thinking about it, may be someday I will find an answer I can live with.

MP, yes, power does corrupt. It is so hard for me to understand why anyone would prefer power over love.

daylily

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Re: Got new T -
« Reply #17 on: October 13, 2005, 09:37:51 PM »
As Brigid ponts out -Parents have choices about how they treat their children and how they parent those children. It is not compulsory not is it automatic to blindly pass on some or all of the abuse that you suffered to your children. Therefor if parents do abuse their children, they are doing so in self interest or because they are too lazy to challenge and change the modeling from their own parents.

David,

It's pretty clear to me that you're not interested in an alternative viewpoint, but I'm going to offer one anyway.  I've thought a great deal about this issue, and I have come to conclusions that are somewhat different than the prevailing wisdom here.  However, this is just my own experience and thought process--no one is "right" or "wrong" in how they feel about this very sensitive subject, of course.

I do believe that my mother did the best she could at the time, although her best was often not very good--and was, in fact, quite damaging to her children in consistent, easily identifiable ways.  There are four children in my family, and each of us bears slightly different versions of the same scars.

But after a great deal of thought, pain, and work, I've come to believe that she, like all of us, was a prisoner of her personality.  She could only view the world through the lens of what her personality allowed her to see.  It is the narcissist's tragedy that he or she cannot even perceive the need to change.  Has any of us known a narcissist who said, "I am hurting the people I love, and I need to change in order to stop that"?  I would sincerely doubt it.  These people will go to great lengths to turn the pain they are causing into something--anything--other than what it is:  the consequence of their choices and actions.  They are incapable of seeing the cause-and-effect connection between what they do and how people react to, or feel about, what they did.

Are narcissists capable of changing?  Possibly.  I really don't know.  But I know that in the case of my mother, her behavior was consistent and deeply ingrained.  She has always had remarkable unity of character.  She does not apologize; she does not "own" her behavior without catastrophizing whatever consequences that behavior has wrought.  She can't say, "I'm sorry I hurt you" and mean it.  She has to say, "Oh, so now I'm the worst mother in the world."  I'm sure you get the picture.

But.  Despite her unmitigated narcissism, she has loved her family to the extent that her personality allowed.  That doesn't undo the damage, but it does allow me to admit that imperfect love is still very real love.  Her love was always distorted because it had to pass through her personality on its way to expression.  But that does not negate its existence.

My mother has been critically ill.  I am forced to admit that she probably won't be around much longer.  All the things about her that drove me nuts for over 40 years are probably non-issues now and forever more.  But I know one thing for sure:  Love survives.  Imperfect, barbed, and painful, but alive.  I was alone in the hospital with her one night recently, and she turned to me.  For one moment she was completely herself, and yet more than herself.  She said, "My darling girl.  What would I do without you?"  And though I am damaged by how she treated me, I knew that I forgave her for everything.  Not because it's suddenly OK, but because I knew that if I didn't, I could not let her love survive in me, and so I would not be able to grieve her.

Sometimes that phrase which you find so nauseating expresses exactly the truth.  Some of us are capable of surpassing ourselves, of growing, of suspecting that we can learn to be different and reaching toward that difference as a plant reaches for light.  Some of us are not, but they can love us to the extent their capabilities allow.  Disability comes in many forms, I think, and emotiional disability is very real.  Most of the time, I think narcissism is a prime example of it.

Just my $.02, of course.

best,
daylily



 

Plucky

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Re: Got new T -
« Reply #18 on: October 13, 2005, 09:50:31 PM »
Hi Daylily,
once again you have beautifully expressed a complex and understandable point of view.  Thank you.
Plucky

seasons

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Re: Got new T -
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2005, 10:59:08 AM »
David,

I wanted to with you the best with your new T. You sound so confident about what is exceptable and what isn't. You are very inspiring.
 The very best to you.
"Live simply. Love generously. Care deeply. Speak Kindly. Leave the Rest to God."
Maya Angelou