N's and their tactics to keep you..

[seasons]

I have kept myself away from my N's as much as possible. I am getting so much bull spoken about me, behind me and to me.
For example the use:

We know you probably won't go, you never show up anymore.
You never answer you phone.
I don't want to go either but we are family.
It would make such and such so happy if you made the effort to show up.


Other example, a cousin recently said by to me at a shower next cousin get together you will be there? But really made a statement not a question. It was power, she doesn't like that I'm not following the rest, I'm not a follower I'm a surviver.
I should of said, "IF you can arrange for my two N sisters not to be there then I'm a definate show! lol

Next, using guilt is their all time favorite. My Dad and little Brothers anniversary Mass is this weekend. I'm trying to figure out how to get into church and leave without them seeing me, don't think that will happen. Then the'll want to go for breakfast after...yes, hell.
So I have not answered my oldest N, and she says I was thinking of Mom today an she would of said," Now you girls go to Mass you should be there with your brothers and sisters". Sorry sis that's a lie.
NO my mom wouldn't of said that, she didn't play power/guilt trips on me and understood if I was uncomfortable I wouldn't go. For gosh sakes she's probably looking down now and saying get off the guilt trip and stay home and be safe from these nut cases.
By the way oldest N hates other N sister and vise verser, they are three years apart and grew up together. Since they love attention the will be around eachother and just be snappy to eachother as each wants all the ATTENTION, it's quite a SHOW.

As I'm trying to find sollutions to so many situations, for one:
I was thinking of planning my own Anniversary Masses for my loved ones and go with my husband and family in peace.
I'm trying my best to keep my distance but they try so hard to drag me back in. It's exhausting playing cat and mouse.

I have kept in more contact with my oldest N because she is remission from cancer, now five years. I have gone to 80% of her appointments and she still counts on me doing this even now for a regular physicals. Her family/kids just left her to deal with this on her own. I wonder WHY? Because even an N can send you away in the darkest of times, thats why.
Now, why wouldn't she treat me with some kindness if I'm the only one that is there for her? She is so bad after her last catscan, got a babysitter and I waited for almost two hours, sitting and knowing what treatment I will be getting soon.
N sister is done and walks into the hall with me, she had her coat and scarf in her hand and just dropped it on the floor right in front of my feet, and she stretched and complained of being stiff. Then she says, can I have my coat? Yes, I bend down and pick it up, put it on her, bend down again and get her scarf, as I'm holding her scarf, she says can you zip my coat, yes, I do, then tie my scarf in a knott in front this is how I like it. I wanted to strangle her but kept it all in.
Wouln't a real person of said, "Could you hold my coat and scarf for me please?" Instead of dropping it on the floor like a peice of rubbish.  Then, "Could you help me put it on now please?"  Their is nothing wrong with her physically, but just incase it comes back you better be good to me or I will make you suffer with guilt....That's what I hear loud and clear as she treats me like a peace of crap.

[write]

I can relate.

But really it's about you breaking habits. You can't change them- only your response to them.

So when your sister drops her garments and expects you to pick them up you can smile and say- no, you pick them up dear;  you don't have to be mean or angry, you're just being reasonable.
If you don't want to go to all the appointments- it's ok to say no.
If you want to attend the mass there's nothing to stop you leaving afterwards and telling anyone who tries to stop you, sorry, I have other plans.

What is stopping you is their conditionning of you- to try to please, to be grateful for any crumb of approval, to feel guilty if you try to take care of your own needs.

But what I want to say to you is this- by taking care of yourself, by learning assertiveness and refusing to participate in family games, whether they realise it or not- you are actually doing everyone a service by making the family more real, more healthy.

Examine your fear some more. You're clearly not worried about your dear mother's perception- she would want you to be well and take care of yourself.

I've been there- feeling that the sky will fall in if I don't do what's expected of me, if I say no, if I fail.

And in a way it did- given that my sister now thinks I'm heartless...but the difference is I now see that for what it is- just her misguided perception and it doesn't have to be my perception of me. It isn't my perception of me.

I don't have to be perfect, and neither do you.

And even if we were- these are emotionally damaged people, it would never be enough. They can only help themselves, if they choose to, and putting up with all the manipulation and ill-treatment doesn't help them any more than it helps you.

[vunil]

In my experience, in my life and watching other people go through life changes, there is usually a fairly dramatic pulling away from the old life that makes the old life (and the people in it) really confused and mad.  I think it's a normal stage. There is something symbolically (and actually) therapeutic and important about ignoring the pleas from the old life to come back to it.  In time you will probably go back to some of these people, and you won't be as isolated as you may be now. But the isolation is part of the whole deal, I think, it's necessary.

No one will understand what you are doing/going through/needing but you.  It's ok that they don't-- it doesn't mean they are bad people (or it may-- it's kind of tangential to them anyway).  For now, I think you are doing the right thing to ignore them and try to listen to your own voice, your own heart, try to forge what the rest of your life looks like for you.  I agree it's almost impossible to do this with their voices getting in the way-- they are used to having the loudest voices and you are used to being voiceless.  Sometimes you need to get someplace quiet to be able to hear your own thoughts.

So, hang in there!  You are doing the right thing by following your instincts.  Try to put yourself in a posiiton where the pleas to do things you don't want to do are less likely-- maybe go on vacation or to a retreat, or tell everyone you are really busy with a project right now and when you resurface in a month you'll get back to them.  Isolation seems like a healthy choice right now.  Definitely don't listen to any gossip about yourself-- don't talk to anyone who wants to relay that gossip.

[David P]

A 'relationship' with a N is much like the situation in the Middle East - there is no solution, the best that you can hope for is a temporary ceasefire while you heal your wounds from the last engagement and at this time they are replenishing their ammunition for the next assault on you.
It is unresolvable, because THEY do not want it to be resolved - they want to WIN! And they will crush you in the attempt - if you go back for more.

I like 'Write's' post above -it says it all. We can only control how we respond and interact wilth THEM. So,for my part, I do not have any connection with THEM except, if and unless it is absolutely necessary. I do not NEED a relationship with my parents to make me feel like I can deal with the world. Recently my Mother called me on some pretext and started in with her probing about one particular issue my life.
I blurted out, "If I thought that was any of your business I would discuss it with you."
She was outraged by my statement and started berating me like I was a 12 year old .
So I followed up with, "Fortunately I do not need your approval any more so bye for now."
She slammed the phone down and now I have some peace and a temporary ceasefire.

As good as it gets-
DP in Tx
 

[miss piggy]

Hi Seasons and all,

Yep, I've been there too for far too long.  You think you are being nice and taking the high road.  But now you know you have rights.  You have the right to be respected.  I know your oldest N went through a hard time but that doesn't give her a free pass to abuse you.  You can still be nice and respect yourself and expect respect from them. 

It took me a while to learn what the saying "you teach people how to treat you" meant.  People read our expectations of their treatment of us.  The only leverage a person has with an N is what we will do when they don't cooperate, because they won't.  So we have choices.  Withdraw, hold our ground (this takes practice and a willingness to stand firm), or fall into old patterns.

David is right.  Ns are not interested in resolving anything because behaving badly works for them.  They are energized by beating the crap out of people.  Bullying is not a problem for the bully.

David, is your mom an out-and-out N or a covert N?  I know it can be hard to tell when one N has another bigger badder N to do the obvious.  Good for you for shutting her down.  I can't believe I'm cheering on someone for backtalking their mom, but with Ns, all the rules go out the window right quick!

MP

[David P]

My Mom is a dependent weakling who pretends that she has *values*. She is flimsy and rather a feeble person who has adopted many of my Dad's tactics because they work (- in a crude way)
She is both an Nabler and a covert N and occasionally she acts like an overt N.
She sprouts a lot of self-promotional crap about how she ,"Cannot stand injustice and unfairness."
However she was willing to allow her children to be subjected to a campaign of psychological warfare waged by my father. Apparently she did not intend to include her own chidren in her rather self righteous statement.

They is no peace with these people -

DP in TX.

[miss piggy]

Hi David and all,

My mom is OK with the way my Nfather is because it gets her what she wants.  He is the fighter and goes into the ring (the working world) and brings home the bacon.  The fact that he continued his belligerence at home, reinforced by his statements that me makes th money ie doesn't have to do anything else regarding his family, was A-OK.  And she was a big believer in the "wait until your father gets home" method of punishment.  He is/was the bad guy and that works.  Then when he retired, the only one left at home to relieve his belligerence was her.  So now it's a problem.     Because she is on the receiving end.  So it's not what he's doing but who he's doing it to.  I can and do empathize with her pain while maintaining that she has to fight the good fight herself ie. don't expect me to rescue her.  I was completely on my own, with no one to talk to for emotional support.  At least she has her kids and her friends to talk to.

It can be confusing for me because I find it validating on the one hand, and infuriating on the other.  Validating because we're finally calling an elephant an elephant, but infuriating because it took so long to get to this point.  He insists on BSing himself about his various medical conditions and why he cannot "hear".  He just cannot face the truth, and he has never listened, so his hearing is really irrelevant anyway.

Well, this has always bugged me...

MP