Male and female connection question.

[Its not Easy]

Hey ladies. Maybe there is no simple answer to this question but I will ask anyway.
Approximately,how many dates does it take before a woman starts to really feel that she is in a 'relationship' rather that just dating casually.
Secondly, if the couple proceed to a sexual connection,does that change how the lady feels significantly towards the man and her relationship with him.
Finally what 'does it' for women'
Mens attraction for women tends to be like flipping a switch, but I gather that for women it is more like a big Volume Control knob which gets turned up slowly over time.

I appreciate some perspective from you gals.

Its not Easy.

[Hopalong]

Hi Easy,
Women appreciate most of all being listened to and recognized as individuals, way more than the sum of their parts. So I'd advise not looking for a formula.

Instead, I'd try to genuinely find out who this PERSON is. Ask her about what she loves most, what makes her feel safest and happiest in a relationship. Ask this out of genuine interest, not with a goal liine in mind.

There is no answer for "a woman." There is an answer, or an evolving answer, for a unique and individual woman, a distinct person. Make understanding the PERSON your goal, ask lots of questions, and really ponder what a woman tells you.

Sounds as though you'd do really well to practice striking up friendships with women, and deliberately making that, friendship, your goal.

Get to know one or two nice women well enough that you can honestly say you have befriended them. You have become a friend. (This takes months and includes mundane daytime activities.) Even tell them at the outset. I truly want a good friendship here...I'm not ready for a romantic relationship.

That's my advice for where you are now.

Hopalong

[Plucky]

I would add that having sex does change the relationship, normally.   It is a point of vulnerability for the woman, if not for both.  Unexpected and heretofore unspoken feelings and expectations could come up out of the woodwork then.   The relationship should be strong enough to weather them before proceeding to that point.
a dry
Plucky

[Healing&Hopeful]

Hiya it's not easy....
 
Yes, I agree with the others.  What "does it" for me anyway, is that the little things are the big things.  Remembering what is her favourite flower and buying her a bunch of her favourite flowers, remembering what's her favourite food and taking her to a restaurant which serves her favourite food... being a gentleman and holding doors open, paying for an evening out and refusing to let me pay half when I offer (yep, I'm an old fashioned type of gal ).  Which all comes from, as Hoppy says, listening.
 
Generally the relationship does change when it gets sexual.... but I feel that when you meet someone you have a connection with, someone you want to be with, it won't be like flipping a switch for you either.
 
Take care
 
H&H xx

[Brigid]

Not Easy,
I would agree with what all the other ladies have said.  We cannot all be lumped into one set of rules, guidelines, interests or expectations.  If two people form a real connection, and that can happen as soon as a few hours or as long as several months, all rules go out the window.  Yes, intimacy usually does change a relationship and is generally not viewed as casually by women as by men, but that is very  individual as well. 

I have been dating my bf for almost 9 months.  I considered the first 4 months to be very casual, as we were both seeing other people at the same time (knowingly), we only went out once every couple of weeks and spoke on the phone occasionally.  When we decided that we were "into" each other and wanted to be more serious, we obviously stopped seeing any other people, we spend as much time as possible together, and talk on the phone at least once a day.  It was at that point that I considered us (and I have to believe he did as well) in a relationship. 

After what I had been through with my xnh, I needed that casual time to get to know him better, develop a friendship, observe his behaviors without having an emotional attachment and get to a point of being able to trust him.  For me, this was a very healthy way to reenter the dating world and work my way into having another serious relationship.

I agree with what the others have said about listening to what she tells you, be a gentleman, be yourself, and be kind.  If the chemistry is there, the rest will fall into place.

Brigid

[Xenia]

I haven't dated for quite a while, but I can give the perspective of a female friend of mine whose complaint of men she meets seems to be that they only want to talk about themselves and never ask her anything about her!  So, I'd agree with what everyone else has said - be interested in her, give her your attention and respect.  And yes, I'd say getting intimate does change the way a woman feels; as Plucky says, its about vulnerability. 

[Plucky]

Hi Easy,
it almost sounds like you're trying to accomplish something.  Do you have a goal in mind?  If you're trying to score, and the woman senses this, it will take quite a few more dates than if you are just interested in her as a person!
Plucky

[Mati]

I read Mars and Venus on a Date by John Gray recently and really wished that I had read it a long time ago, it explained so much about the difference in the sexes and their expectations in a relationship and what helps and hinders intimacy. I learnt so much from that book and would love to get the chance to put it into practise one day if that is possible for me.

[miss piggy]

Hi Plucky, I had that reaction too about does Easy just want to score? but then it could be that he just wants to know where he stands...
Easy, if that is the case, that is, you want to know how the relationship is doing, can you bring it up in a quiet calm moment?  Can you easily talk about things with the woman in question?  I find communication is the most important thing in any relationship.  If you are not yet comfortable bringing up certain topics, then that might be an important temperature reading.  Just a thought (or two).  MP

[Its not Easy]

Interesting replies ladies. I asked the question in the way that I did because I need to know the answers IF there were any.
 
I gather that some of you are suspicious about my motives("maybe he just wants to score") and therein lies a fundamental  difference between men and women.

Firstly I did NOT ask how many dates would it take to set the scene for a sexual advance.
I asked about a relationship . Why would you not hear what I said in the way that I said it.

If one of my men friends asked me the question that I asked, I would give him the direct answer to his question(if I knew) because that is how we men think and respond.

Women seem to commonly be looking for the 'real reasons' even when there are none.

I do take your points that listening to her hopes and wishes and feelings is important and I will develop that further because I am seeing someone who matters to me a great deal. She is really wonderful but at the same time, anxious about moving forward. My course is slow and steady at this time.


Its not Easy

[Hopalong]

Hi Not Easy,

Slow and steady sounds wise, and it's good that you're sensitive to her anxiety.

I think maybe "What 'does it' for a woman" could've been interpreted (perhaps misinterpreted) as asking what makes a woman decide to become sexual? That's what I thought you meant....it did sort of sound as though scoring might be your goal. But as you say, you may have been simply wondering if there was an easy answer. You did ask a board of mostly women what we think, so we told ya!

I appreciate your point about the matter-of-fact way a guy might answer another guy's direct question about "how many dates."

You might not have realized how your query sounded as though women are indistinguishable, not unique individuals. We all belong to the gender we belong to, but we're all, male and female, far more interesting than the broad brush might paint us. (For example, guys might answer your question in very different ways from each other...I think men are fascinatingly variable too, under the surface.)

It's clear that you value your new lady, though, and that bodes well for you. Just keep getting to know her...get to know what's between her ears and maybe you'll wind up between the sheets, or maybe not, but still have a fine friendship. What would be great--for both of you--would be if you find you genuinely feel good about each other either way.

Best of luck,
Hopalong

[andromeda]

Hi Not Easy --

I think the best thing to do is get to know her.  Would that women came with instruction manuals!! Would that ALL HUMANS came with instruction manuals!


Here's an example of a situation unfolding badly: Man asks me out. Pays for everything on first date, has already purchased tickets for second date. On second date, informs me he has purchased tickets for third date. Never lets me pay. Plans all the dates.

Also doesn't really talk much when I ask him questions. I know he's a sweet, nice guy, he just clams up around me.

There is no real relationship happening, and I freak out because I interpret his behavior as controlling. I give him the 'friends' talk.

Six months later we run into each other. He's actually talking now (because he thinks he's blown it? I don't know...) so we meet for brunch. Which is when he makes another play to date me...AFTER I've told him that it takes me a really long time to get to know someone, AFTER I've asked him to just spend time with me casually and see what happens.

He's not listening.

In this situation, I feel like a trophy he's after...I do attract trophy hunters, for some reason, who don't listen but instead have a relationship with some Ideal version of me in their head.

The challenging thing is to be who you are, care about who you are, and find someone who its easy for you to care for.

[Plucky]

Now Easy,
don't get all sensitive now!
You did ask about making the transition from casual dating to a relationship.  And then you brought up sex.  Now what were we supposed to think?
Language can be tricky.  Using words like relationship which mean different things to different people, could lead to confusion if any assumptions were made.  It's good to be explicit about what you mean if you talk about the relationship.  I think.
Good luck
Plucky