Author Topic: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?  (Read 3813 times)

LostSurvivor

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How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« on: December 14, 2005, 07:54:51 PM »
Hello:

I am going through some turmoil as I realize that I may have no choice soon but to become involved in separation/divorce proceedings from my nHusband sooner than I thought. He is in almost a crazed state after a huge argument with my daughter which I think that he perceives as abandonment according to everything I've read about narcissism. He rejects both me and her and has cancelled a joint credit card that is used for household purposes, a favorite form of retaliation. He has become more controlling and secretive with money lately, acting like I'm stealing when I use the joint checking account for normal family expenses. He really likes to hear himself rant about money. He is ranting that he will not pay a penny for our daughter's college education. He tells the kids that he purchased everything we own (although I worked for ten years and contributed, taking some time off for school and the kids, so not quite half, but very significantly). I also found out that he has an account (of his own) on the Internet that he has been transferring money to, and then opening CDs in his name. I know that I should be protecting myself, but I don't know exactly what is needed and what I should be doing, and how to get around him hoarding the financial paperwork. I used to handle the bills a while ago, and then he offered to do it to "help" and since I had too much to do, I handed the job over to him and he started all this. Does anyone have any advice?  I don't know where to begin. LostSurvivor

Brigid

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2005, 09:35:50 AM »
Lost,
I absolutely agree that you need to contact a good divorce attorney in your area so that he or she can advise you about all your questions.  We can offer advice here, but we don't know the laws of your state and what protections/requirements are in place for division of property, custody, visitation, spousal support and so many other things.

In the meantime, I would keep a log of all the accounts that you are aware of--the CD's, the account on the internet, etc.  Don't be afraid to do some snooping and checking his internet history.  N's are very secretive and sneaky and the better you can be armed and aware, the easier it will be for your attorney to help you.  I don't think your h can just remove you at will from joint accounts.  This is something else that an attorney can answer for you.  The fact that he is self-employed will make it more difficult for you.  My xnh was also self-employed in a business with his father.  Dear old dad helped him to hide assets that my attorney was never able to prove were there, even with the help of a forensic accountant.

How much more schooling do you have before you are finished?  Is there a chance you could put it on hold for now and find a part-time job to give you some money of your own?  It would give him one less thing to rage about and give you a little breathing room.  Just a suggestion.

Your situation sounds very similar to that of a woman who was in my divorce support group.  The separation was a nightmare for her and her 4 children and he used money to control her at every step.  She had not prepared ahead of time for the filing for the divorce so spent many months just putting out fires at every turn (she might still be, but I'm no longer in the group).  I saw your post on another thread that you had found a group and were questioning whether you would participate.  I hope you will, as it is a great place to find support, guidance, and resources in your area.  Please, at least check it out.  The members are usually very welcoming and the facilitators are used to hearing every kind of story.  In my group of 10 members, we determined that probably 8 of us were in relationships with n's.  However, I was the only one who was knowledgable about it as my therapist had diagnosed my h as n (we saw him together for 6 weeks before my h walked out).  The more I talked about the disorder, the more the others saw the same traits in their x spouses.  We were lucky to have a psychologist as our facilitator, so he was able to offer professional guidance as well.

Trust me when I say that this is not something you can do on your own.  You need professional help and support of friends.  Are you in school at a university?  If so, they can offer counseling services through their health services and perhaps even some legal advice if they have a law school.  I hope some of this helps.

Many blessings,

Brigid


LostSurvivor

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2005, 10:43:36 AM »
I appreciate the responses. I find the hardest part of this is switching between the day to day handling of his behavior, which makes no sense as I have to deal with an adult man like a child, and trying to develop a sensible plan of action. I have read that Ns can be fooled into behaving better if you know what you're doing, and I am trying to get into that mode while I plan, but it is hard. I have read that they like to feel that they saved the day, and will behave better if you make them think that. However, giving him the slightest acknowlegement of helpfulness causes him to verbally attack me and how much better he is at whatever he did and everything else and he is superior, etc. I've never been a manipulator but if there are any sites that actually spell out the lines like a play, on how to get some kind of control over this, I'd be interested.

I'd like to clarify that although he works from home, it is through a corporation,  and he is a full time employee, not self-employed. He has told me that he wants me removed as the beneficiary from his savings plans which I said no to, as he is still on mine, and he retorted that there are ways he can do this without my approval (forgery?). In the past he threatened me a lot with leaving, whenever he was worked up, and for a long while I used to have the "let's work something out/problem solve" attitude which was often emotional, until I realized that  he was a narcissist (thank goodness for all the websites on this disorder or I would still be clueless thinking I was responsible for solving the problems). After thinking about it, I realized that when I started changing my responses, telling him to leave if he wanted to, he started getting more controlling and argumentative about money. I actually wish he would leave, as he threatens to take a position with the company in a different city. I've told him that it's no problem with me (it would give me a chance to think and plan better without him there) but he doesn't do it. I have a feeling he's throwing a lot threats at me, hoping that something will get me to respond (although I have no idea what he is really after- is it tears, running me out of the house?) He seems to be hurling random acts of craziness, but since he's never taken that out of town position, some are lies, but I don't know if they all are.

I try to find out what he is up to whenever I can and have started to make copies of a few documents. His computer is locked with a password. I use a different computer which he gave as a gift, but just the other day he said that it was not a gift, that he is really loaning it to me. He is all over the place, lying about events (the computer gift), picking random fights. His mental state seems more uncontrolled and unfocused - if it were not for the financial issue, it could be downright amusing to watch this. He is rewriting events of the past with greater frequency lately, which probably means something, but I'm not sure what (is he experiencing greater stress levels than ever?) I have spent much of my time so far dealing with narcissism with respect to getting over and understanding a lot things with nMom (mostly via reading about it, never sought counseling) so I feel like this is the second time around. My factual knowlege of the disorder is better, but there is still some shock, which tends to paralyze my responses. As far as legalities, finances, counseling I'm still rather lost and appreciate any direction. LostSurvivor

Healing&Hopeful

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2005, 11:13:22 AM »
Hiya LostSurvivor

I really feel for you at the time and wish there was something I could do to help, to advise.

So I've done a search on google to see what I could come up with...

http://www.healthyplace.com/Communities/Personality_Disorders/Site/Transcripts/narcissism.htm



http://www.faqfarm.com/Q/How_do_you_deal_with_a_narcissist
This is one of the answers:-
Being married to one, I find that the only way to deal with him is to make everything about him. If I want something for example, instead of saying "Honey I would really like this. May I get it?" I would approach him like this, "I think getting this would benefit you in ...." I would then pitch it to him as to what he would get out of it. I have gotten him to the point of my being able to buy any clothing or makeup I want because of how my appearance will reflect on him. This is only one example, but you just learn how to make your desires seem like they will benefit him.

Moderator: We've all, at some point or another, had a boss/friend/relative who fits the bill for NPD. Any quick tips/hints on dealing with those people?


Vaknin: Accommodate them, flatter them, adore them, admire them or get out of their way -- and fast. They are vindictive. They are aggressive. They are emotionless. In short: they can be dangerous to your health.

From the sounds of it the best thing you can do to ease the situation is to provide him with supply in the short term.  I.e., I'm so glad your doing the finances because your so much better than me.... Not tell him that he's helping you, tell him that he's better than you and to make it all about him.

This is another thing which is exhausting but may give you the time and space to check what he's doing, get any evidence you need and get a plan of action sorted.

Take care

H&H xx
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Sallying Forth

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2005, 08:30:14 PM »
I try to find out what he is up to whenever I can and have started to make copies of a few documents. His computer is locked with a password. I use a different computer which he gave as a gift, but just the other day he said that it was not a gift, that he is really loaning it to me. He is all over the place, lying about events (the computer gift), picking random fights. His mental state seems more uncontrolled and unfocused - if it were not for the financial issue, it could be downright amusing to watch this. He is rewriting events of the past with greater frequency lately, which probably means something, but I'm not sure what (is he experiencing greater stress levels than ever?) I have spent much of my time so far dealing with narcissism with respect to getting over and understanding a lot things with nMom (mostly via reading about it, never sought counseling) so I feel like this is the second time around. My factual knowlege of the disorder is better, but there is still some shock, which tends to paralyze my responses. As far as legalities, finances, counseling I'm still rather lost and appreciate any direction. LostSurvivor

Hi LostSurvivor,
I find that when my h is under stress he has more problems and lies more. He acts out more as well. Suddenly things which were agreed to before no longer hold true. I find it very confusing when I listen to him. I try to write in my journal then to get and keep my head straight. Also this place helps and reading about the truth helps.

If you are in the states, contact your local crisis center for support. They have access to low cost lawyers, counseling, etc. And they have support groups.
The truth is in me.[/color]

I'm Sallying Forth on a new adventure! :D :D :D

Plucky

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #5 on: December 16, 2005, 01:30:04 AM »
Hi Lsurvivor,
you really need to get an attorney quickly!
That is the one thing you need to do today.
Plucky

Marta

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #6 on: December 16, 2005, 09:10:10 AM »
Hi Lsurvivor,

I second Plucky. Do it. TOday. Now. Otherwise it will be too late and you are going to regret it big time. Ns are notorious about defrauding others re. money. Please. Justr do it.

Marta


miss piggy

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #7 on: December 16, 2005, 08:04:40 PM »
Hello,

Just want to add to above warnings what someone else wrote on another thread.  If the Ns are accusing you of something, that means that they are doing it.  Protect the money because he is probably raiding it right now.  Check all your accounts.  Make copies of everything, keep a log of what you are doing and why, and what you know he is doing.   Lock up the log.  Don't talk about what you are doing with him.  This does not make you untrustworthy, just selfprotective.  He has lost your trust and he never trusted you, he just controlled you. 

Good luck!!  MP

tina

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #8 on: December 17, 2005, 03:09:53 AM »
   Hello, Lost Survivor and all!
   I am new to this forum, but have just begun divorce proceedings with my N. We seperated, (for the second time), this Oct. 15th after I found text messages between him and one of  my oldest friends. They were professing their love for one another, plans for leaving their spouses,etc. I was devastated and at that time still did not realize he was a N, and thought he'd simply fallen for my "friend". Turns out that was only the straw that broke the camels back. I began going through cell phone records, e-mails, his personal belongings and the like. What I found was the last eight years were built upon a series of lies. He had told everyone that he was a Navy Seal and had a "top secret" clearance status, but I stumbled across his actual discharge papers which he'd kept hidden from me in a file with numerous other little suprises. I was shocked to learn he'd been discharged for psychological reasons, namely Personality Disorder. He'd gone AWOL and had convinced a friend to run over his leg twice in hopes of breaking it, all in effort to avoid going back to active duty. He was admitted to Bethesda Maryland Naval Hospital's psyche ward prior to his diagnosis. He was married at the time and for the lasst eight years swore to me the kids were hers with someone else. In actuality he has two biological children, both in their teens now, and his former wife had moved herself and the kids to Nevada to get away from him.
   He also kept the computer "locked up" and told me we had a virus in it, but I have since learned that he was e-mailing various women, most of them being those he'd "met" on the internet chat or sex rooms. He met with some of them for casual sex romps, all the while telling me he had to work or was going to see his family. We never had a joint bank account, if I ever "borrowed" money from him I had to pay it back, I had to "buy" my 1994 Jeep Cherokee from him in order to drive it, I was blocked from making changes on our direct tv account, he had web cams I wasn't aware of, owned a porn site he was making money on, is buying himself an Avalanche I was not allowed to drive, paid only rent while I paid all utilities, phone, tv, etc., had several e-mail accounts I was unaware of, told my daughters to go to their rooms while he e-mailed women,(I was going to evening college courses), would not allow us to let our cats in the house, (but his dogs were always allowed in) and eventually every cat we ever had "disappeared" or became ill and died whenever he was home for extended periods of time.
   He is a chronic and pathological liar, even lying about trivial things, like how much the bbq grill cost and the laptop, etc. My oldest daughter went through a strange transition during the last few weeks he was still with us, and I wonder about abuse. We are all in counseling and Monday I meet with my divorce attorney for the first time. He just recently filed a motion to retrieve property against me in an attempt to take the Jeep, eventhough I have the title and bill of sale. He may be in legal trouble for that. There is a restraining order against him after a domestic violence incident a couple weeks after he'd gone, and he violated it recently and spent the weekend in jail. The week after he filed the motion to recover, (this week), he called the police department here and asked them to contact me for my permission for him to buy my daughters new bikes for Xmas. I am struggling to make ends meet, he offers only grief, then suddenly he wants to be superdad coming in with super Xmas presents. I said no, and the dispatcher relayed the message to him. He told me one day he will make my daughters hate me. He is not their biological dad, but is the only dad they've ever known and they love him. I also learned he is pretty into the methamphetamine scene. He is just a total psycho, and the signs were always there, getting stronger all the time, and I ignored it. I ignored his lies, infidelity,self-centeredness, and control issues.
   Eight years! We split for a time prior to this, yet I took him back! Man! I am so disappointed in it all. I am so dead inside. I feel like a shell of my former self. So empty. Sometimes it just doesn't seem real. I should have started checking into his secrets long ago. Why did I take his word for anything?
   He has slandered my name anywhere and to anyone he can. He has tried to blame it all on me, and he has been doing this, bad-mouthing me behind my back, for quite a long time. I hate him. He left town after his second arrest, and that helps some, but he'll be back and forth for court. He is the most despicable human being I have ever known.
   Now that I have finally started cutting him out of our lives he seems to be trying everything possible to get in the last jab. He just won't fade away. I wish I had never met him.

Brigid

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #9 on: December 17, 2005, 10:27:55 AM »
Tina,
I'm sorry you were so blindsided by this psycho.  We've all had it happen in one form or another, but yours is very despicable.  I have been through the discovery of the lies, secrets, infidelity and addiction to porn, etc.  My discoveries came after 22 years of marriage and 2 children, however.

Rather than hijack LostSurvivor's thread, however, maybe you would like to start one of your own.  You will get a great deal of support here.  I'm glad to hear that you and your daughters are in therapy.  That is your best hope for starting the road to healing.

Blessings,

Brigid

mudpuppy

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #10 on: December 17, 2005, 01:27:34 PM »
Hi Lost survivor and tina,

You both need good lawyers. You are both married to men who are commiting crimes against you and are putting their heads in nooses for you. If you choose to you can truly make them pay but it will take perseverance and courage. However if you deliver a knockout blow early on to people like this your life down the road will be much easier. A nuclear strike against an N is almost always better then their sick game of tit for tat escalation and threats. Deliver a nuclear strike or head for the hills and hide. Anything in between is just years of misery and being on the defensive and playing their game.

If they have substantial assets and their behavior is wreckless enough, as Tina's psycho certainly sounds, you can very likely find a lawyer who will work on contingency for you.

Just as important, learn everything you can about N motivations and behaviors. You will be able to better anticipate and understand what they are doing or are likely to do.

mudpup

lovedafraud

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #11 on: December 17, 2005, 04:09:57 PM »
   Thankyou, Brigid and Mudpup;
    I am so sorry. I didn't mean to hijack lsurvivors thread. I am just not very adept at this all yet. Is there anyway I can transfer my "story" from this thread to one of my own w/out having to type the whole thing again? It is just so terribly draining. I appologize LSurvivor, for being pushy. I just saw so many commonalities between us. I feel pretty experienced about the things you are going through. Experienced with the raw emotions, but not in coping mechanisms yet.
   Tina

mudpuppy

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #12 on: December 17, 2005, 06:29:58 PM »
Hi lovedafraud,

Nobody meant you were being pushy. I'm sure Brigid doesn't mind me speaking for her, do you sis? She just meant you might get more and better focused responses on your own thread. Things get kind of jumbled sometimes.

Anyway heres how you do it. Highlight your first post by dragging your left mouse button over it. Then right click the highlighted text and select 'copy'. Then go open a new thread and left click for a cursor. Then you right click and select paste and your text will appear.

mud

Hopalong

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #13 on: December 17, 2005, 06:35:03 PM »
Hey Tina,
Just cut and paste it and post it under a New Topic.
Dont' worry...everybody slides into their own story on other threads...it's natural.

BTW, I don't think "hijack" is meant as "you are a terrible person"--this is my first forum too and I think it's just a jargon thing that people who participate in chat boards are comfy with. (I always worried about it too. I get the idea that it's cool to lain bits of your own experience in as how and why you relate to somebody's story on their thread...just when one is starting a new or involved story, it's good to start a separate thread. Just helps people keep track and not lose the...(OH, I GET IT!  :P thread). Me, i'm still figuring out that threads involve something other than sewing. This is the first forum I've participated in largely because I comprehend how to navigate it!)

GLAD you're telling that horrendous tale and glad it's spilling out of you!
(Don't go away, just find the New Topic button...)

Best, and welcome, and so very very sorry for what you've gone through.
It's a bitter lesson, even brutal...but you'll pull through it and never be so unaware again.

Kudos for this good start! And keep on posting!
Hopalong
"That'll do, pig, that'll do."

lovedafraud

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Re: How Do You Get Your Thoughts in Order?
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2005, 01:01:58 AM »
   Wow! I am so glad I stumbled across this site in my search. Thankyou to everyone who posted a response.
   LostSurvivor, I so relate to what you are saying. They seem to threaten to leave a lot, and I believe they feed off our begging them to stay, promising them anything, telling them how important they are to us, etc. I don't believe their intention behind their threats is for them to actually go, but rather to get that Narcissistic Supply I've been reading about. I doubt he really has any intention at all of leaving, and I bet if you were to tell him to go and mean it, he would first try to call your bluff, but in realizing you really want him to go he would probably break down or freak out. My N, I have found, is big into being the one to call the shots and inflict the pain. He loves control, whether it be financial, household, parental or in-the-bedroom. If you are ready for him to go you will want to do it so he knows you are done. Then don't let him come around until you are able to build your emotional strength back up. That's how they get us; when we're down. His lies will make you question yourself and your choices. It will fill as though there is a tremendous void when you first leave him. Sometimes you think you're doing better and then WHAM!! it hits you again and re-ply moments in your mind. It can be lonely to find yourself in the single or single-parenting world, but it is better than living according to his moods, lies , infidelity, etc.  Something I have been reading lately says that NPD's are prone to incestuous behaviors. That is an eye opener in and of itself. 
   Lovedafraud (Tina)